Help with tall fence post sizing

[The One]

I have a neighbor who doesn't seem to understand my no trespassing signs or me verbally asking them not to use my land. They've also used a 3ft strip of my land as their mown gas lawn.

Last week they buried something (dead dog?) on my land and enough is enough, so I'm building a 12ft fence to block out their house/garage and dropping down to 8ft to block out their yard.

(yes, it's going to be awkward putting up this fence)

So I'm having a surveyor come out, already got the permits, and am finalizing my material and tool list.

For the 12ft section I'd like to use metal chainlink fence posts and then 5 rails made of treated 2x4x8 which I'll screw my pickets to.

The metal to wood brackets seem to all be made for 2-1/2" chainlink fence posts so I'm leaning toward that diameter, but what will my spacing need to be and what wall thickness should I use?

I'm in northern WI so I plan to drive each post 4ft into the ground. The location is primarily wooded forest except for their 1/2 acre lawn that I'll be placing the fence down the edge of. So high winds aren't likely, but I also don't want to risk the fence coming down on somebody.

 

[BillK]

Cant help with your actual question but wanted to mention that in my county you cant have a fence over 8ft. 4ft in "front yards" Make sure you are ok at 12 ft. You dont want to give the bad neighbors any more ammo if possible. Would hate to see you spend all that money and they make you take it down

 

[The One]

Cant help with your actual question but wanted to mention that in my county you cant have a fence over 8ft. 4ft in "front yards" Make sure you are ok at 12 ft. You dont want to give the bad neighbors any more ammo if possible. Would hate to see you spend all that money and they make you take it down

I have the building permits signed from the county for it and there's nothing in the "Covenants, conditions and restrictions" that covers fences (or any other applicable structure location rules).

Social ramifications aspect of putting up such a tall fence through "their yard" is still a concern, but the neighbors aren't exactly liked by any other neighbors that I'm aware of so hopefully it doesn't cause me to become hated... I can't exactly say that a fence is going to look great in the middle of their yard like that, but I'm also doing my best to make it look as good as possible for them. It's a tough situation with no great answer...

 

[Onator]

I have a neighbor who doesn't seem to understand my no trespassing signs or me verbally asking them not to use my land. They've also used a 3ft strip of my land as their mown gas lawn.

Last week they buried something (dead dog?) on my land and enough is enough, so I'm building a 12ft fence to block out their house/garage and dropping down to 8ft to block out their yard.

(yes, it's going to be awkward putting up this fence)

So I'm having a surveyor come out, already got the permits, and am finalizing my material and tool list.

For the 12ft section I'd like to use metal chainlink fence posts and then 5 rails made of treated 2x4x8 which I'll screw my pickets to.

The metal to wood brackets seem to all be made for 2-1/2" chainlink fence posts so I'm leaning toward that diameter, but what will my spacing need to be and what wall thickness should I use?

I'm in northern WI so I plan to drive each post 4ft into the ground. The location is primarily wooded forest except for their 1/2 acre lawn that I'll be placing the fence down the edge of. So high winds aren't likely, but I also don't want to risk the fence coming down on somebody.

I would recommend that you send these neighbors a letter that clearly states that they are not to mow grass/weeds on your side of the property - nor should they trespass or bury anything. That quick letter (send it certified/receipt requested and keep a copy in your file) is your ammo for future legal Issues. Its entirely possible that they could claim rights (Adverse Possession) to this 3ft strip or whatever and unless you can show a history of telling them No and they can show proof that they have used and “improved” the property (here in MN mowing is considered “improving property”) for a period of time, they might just have a claim to your land. Not saying they will or are even smart enough to know this - but a stamp and spend 5-minutes drafting a letter. It can make it all official and protect your rights. Good Luck!

 

[nadogail]

A 12’ fence will have considerable Sail Area and the posts will need to be on the order of Telephone Poles. For a 4’ board fence the minimum post size is 4X4, a six foot fence needs a 6X6. 12’ high fences are considered walls and must meet structural requirements.
I realise that your local requirements are probably very different from mine, but do your due diligence regarding wind loads so that your neighbors will not have a “Got You” when they try to retaliate for your blocking their view and causing their property to loose value.
As an insurance matter; after you have your property line determined by a registered surveyor; build your permanent fence slightly within your property so that there will be room for a small amount of error.
Plan on your neighbor being uncooperative when you plan to repaint or repair the fence.

 

[The One]

I would recommend that you send these neighbors a letter that clearly states that they are not to mow grass/weeds on your side of the property - nor should they trespass or bury anything. That quick letter (send it certified/receipt requested and keep a copy in your file) is your ammo for future legal Issues. Its entirely possible that they could claim rights (Adverse Possession) to this 3ft strip or whatever and unless you can show a history of telling them No and they can show proof that they have used and “improved” the property (here in MN mowing is considered “improving property”) for a period of time, they might just have a claim to your land. Not saying they will or are even smart enough to know this - but a stamp and spend 5-minutes drafting a letter. It can make it all official and protect your rights. Good Luck!

Hmm... I'll have to look into this. Idk if it complicates the issue, but I've lived here for 7 years, but technically only owned this other lot which they are mowing (that's between my house and theirs) for 2 years. So if there was a claim older than I've owned the land, I think title insurance would take precedence since it wasn't disclosed (and previous owners of the land told me nobody had permission to use their land)? Just spit balling here.

Also I need the land surveyed before saying for 100% that it's my land (long property line with lots of elevation change and the lawn is near the middle).

 

[The One]

A 12’ fence will have considerable Sail Area and the posts will need to be on the order of Telephone Poles. For a 4’ board fence the minimum post size is 4X4, a six foot fence needs a 6X6. 12’ high fences are considered walls and must meet structural requirements.
I realise that your local requirements are probably very different from mine, but do your due diligence regarding wind loads so that your neighbors will not have a “Got You” when they try to retaliate for your blocking their view and causing their property to loose value.
As an insurance matter; after you have your property line determined by a registered surveyor; build your permanent fence slightly within your property so that there will be room for a small amount of error.
Plan on your neighbor being uncooperative when you plan to repaint or repair the fence.

Any advice on building it with strong enough footings and supports?

Maybe a 2x6 leg/brace out to a post a few feet into my property?

Aside from painting or staining their side, I think I've figured out how to do all of the construction and maintenance from my side.

 

[The Cobbler]

curious what a 12 foot fence does that a 5, 6 or 7' fence doesn't , other than making a statement?

 

[The One]

curious what a 12 foot fence does that a 5, 6 or 7' fence doesn't , other than making a statement?

Privacy from their upper windows, not as easy to throw garbage over (currently they rake garbage that blows out of their always open garage into our woods (coffee cups, soda bottles, golf balls, etc), and blocks out their flood lights they leave on 24x7 that shine toward our house (these are against ordinance, but it seems like it'll be easier to deal with it by putting up a fence than complaining about it). I've literally never seen their garage door shut or their outdoor lights turned off in 7 years.

 

[Sumboodie]

Burn the place down or accidentally drive a D9 through it.

 

[mmb617]

I hope you are fully aware that neighbor wars get pretty ugly and there will be casualties on both sides.

You don't think you're going to fire a salvo and not face retaliation do you?

However, those conflicts can be very entertaining to other neighbors with no dog in the fight. I have two neighbors who've been at it for years. It's kind of fun trying to guess who will do what next as the war goes on and on. Some of the antics are very amusing to those of us who are simply watching from the sidelines.

 

[mmb617]

I almost forgot to ask. Does he have a bangable wife?

 

[ace10]

A twelve foot fence is no joke.

Have you found a source for and priced out 18 foot posts

 

[theoldwizard1]

A 12' board fence will bend those posts ! Also, if it is board, you probably will have to set them in concrete.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any advice on building it with strong enough footings and supports?

Maybe a 2x6 leg/brace out to a post a few feet into my property?

Make sure you are at least 1' inside the surveyed boundary.

Stick with metal post that are set in concrete. Bracing will help a lot.

8'-10' spacing between post is the max !

 

[nadogail]

Throwing up a 12' tall fence, in the situation described by to OP will be the equivalent to the Japanese "Flyover" at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

There will be no Peaceful Reconciliation, because that fence will be "an act of war".

 

[greeneggs]

Had this problem 15 years or so back. My neighbor in the back started riding his 4 wheeler over on my land and pushed all the huge rock he dug out for their pool on my land. He said "Oh isn't that drainage easement"! Anyway I hired a company and put up a 4 foot tall fence around 2.9 acres in the back. I left the front 2.5 open where our house is. It took them 5 days to finish the fence, the land is low and only about 4-8 inches of soil, so a lot of jack hammering. Problem solved, they moved about 4 years later after getting into it with their neighbors on the side also. I had the fence, just field fence put 6 inches inside the property line. I weed eat my side and the neighbor who moved in weed eats the other side.
I would plant a tree to stop the unsightliness of his garage and flood lights. Nice big pines should do. I didn't speak to my neighbor about my perceived problems with him, other than the first time. It was obvious who he was so I did what my father taught me, I fixed the problem.
I hope you have good luck with your problem.

 

[The One]

I didn't speak to my neighbor about my perceived problems with him, other than the first time. It was obvious who he was so I did what my father taught me, I fixed the problem.

I was honestly not too upset by their lawn over the last few years, and there's about 400 linear feet of trees between my house and theirs. The trees are limbing up as they age so the plan up until now had been to wait until lumber prices fall and then build a fence just to block out the light (requires 12ft to block it).


When I came across the grave last week I couldn't help but be disturbed and realized that there's no sensible way to deal with them rationally since they literally walked past my new no trespassing signs to get into that area.

I set up more trail cams since and have videos of them trespassing.

This also isn't a little city lot either... I've considered moving the fence into my land by 10ft down the entire property line to give them the lawn and keep the trees myself, but due to the length I'd be losing 1/4 acre of land that I paid for and pay taxes on. After the way they've treated me this just doesn't seem like it'd be fair to myself.

The way I see it is that I can either call the cops on them for trespassing and take them to court for their light and using my land (which would likely be an never ending "he said, she said" and "we turned off our light" until they turn it back on...), or I can build a suitably tall fence and go on with my life.

 

[The Cobbler]

sadly, the way things are going , you're getting into a no win situation IMO

 

[65ranchero]

You may want to contact the town ordinance people, If in fact there is a ordinance against shinning lights at your house and he will not adjust them. I have heard of the town doing drive bys at night to observe and issue warning at first

 

[PoorUB]

Don't put the fence too far in from the property line, 6 inches to a foot is plenty. If you put in at your mentioned ten feet next thing you know they will claim the ten foot strip is theirs!

 

[The One]

You may want to contact the town ordinance people, If in fact there is a ordinance against shinning lights at your house and he will not adjust them. I have heard of the town doing drive bys at night to observe and issue warning at first

Neighborhood ordinance. Basically, the legal docs say that anyone in the neighborhood is welcome to take them to court over these things.

I don't think I'm infringing on any of the neighborhood ordinances, however I'd rather not start a war since it would require a few other neighbors to put different color siding on their houses (including the neighbor who's trespassing), give up their chickens, etc etc etc. I'm really rather okay with a lot of things and trying to keep the peace, but also there's a line not to be crossed.

 

[The One]

So....

Any advice on building the fence safely?

 

[The One]

sadly, the way things are going , you're getting into a no win situation IMO

 

[yatg]

I'm really rather okay with a lot of things and trying to keep the peace, but also there's a fence line not to be crossed.

Maybe start with bang in posts and barbed wire. Follow it up with a polite letter registered mail "i've had my property surveyed and put up a fence. please do not cross the fence line". Don't mention any of the other ****. You know and they know.

Good luck. Some neighbors ****.

 

[dcg9381]

12' solid fence that is over 50' long? If you think about it, that's approaching the engineering of a sign.
You can stumble around Google, but it sure looks to me that you'll need to bury the (steel) posts 3-4' down, cased in concrete for a 10' fence to have it handle a rated wind load of 90 mph.

The only fence that I know of around here that was solid and that type of height (10') was done in concrete.. (House is up for sale @$5M).

Sorry your neighbor is an a-hole.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

I have a neighbor who doesn't seem to understand my no trespassing signs or me verbally asking them not to use my land. They've also used a 3ft strip of my land as their mown gas lawn.

Last week they buried something (dead dog?) on my land and enough is enough, so I'm building a 12ft fence to block out their house/garage and dropping down to 8ft to block out their yard.

(yes, it's going to be awkward putting up this fence)

So I'm having a surveyor come out, already got the permits, and am finalizing my material and tool list.

For the 12ft section I'd like to use metal chainlink fence posts and then 5 rails made of treated 2x4x8 which I'll screw my pickets to.

The metal to wood brackets seem to all be made for 2-1/2" chainlink fence posts so I'm leaning toward that diameter, but what will my spacing need to be and what wall thickness should I use?

I'm in northern WI so I plan to drive each post 4ft into the ground. The location is primarily wooded forest except for their 1/2 acre lawn that I'll be placing the fence down the edge of. So high winds aren't likely, but I also don't want to risk the fence coming down on somebody.

You have any lawyer friends. I would have a lawyer send a letter, and set up some piece of recording equipment. Of course, come people will kill others before they give any mind to lawyer letters.
Good luck, and watch your six.

 

[Neggy]

have the land surveyed. send them a copy registered mail return receipt requested, tell them on the enclosed letter they have no legal right to be on the property and that they are trespassing.

The next time they go on it call the police and have them "trespassed" legally.

Next step is a civil restraining order and injunction

 

[theoldwizard1]

A friend of a friend lives next to a gas station. He has a a 10' or maybe 12' fence separating him from the gas station. Steel post, vertical word boards. It was there when he bought the place. Simply painting/staining that thing cost hundreds of dollars in material and more than a week to get the job done.

 

[Walkers]

Once you figure out the post diameter, remember to put a third of the post in the ground. That is a lot of 4’ deep holes. Be sure to use pipe wrap on the underground portion.

 

[The One]

Once you figure out the post diameter, remember to put a third of the post in the ground. That is a lot of 4’ deep holes. Be sure to use pipe wrap on the underground portion.

What's pipe wrap?

 

[BlackBowtie]

12ft is pretty damn tall. I think 8ft fence would be more than enough. Then plant some kind of tall/fast growing privacy plants any where you need more privacy.

 

[SALIV8]

At our trailer I had a survey done. Then post hole dug the tractor supply 6” round treated posts every 8’ just inside my property line. No fencing in between.

 

[ace10]

The general rule of thumb regarding post depth being 1/3 of the above ground height might not be applicable for a fence with such a massive sail area.


How are you going to "drive" posts that 16 or 18 feet tall?

Where are you going to find "slats" that are 12 feet?

 

[Walkers]

What's pipe wrap?

It is a PVC tape. Usually it is used at the joints of pipe that will be buried that has a coating on it and just needs the ends with the fitting wrapped. it works very well keeping the underground portion of posts from rusting.

 

[nmk_61802]

My gut tells me no smaller than 6" sch 80 pipe, probably safer at 8", either sch. 40 or 80, galvanized.

I would guess with today's material prices, you are looking at well over 10k in fencing materials.

 

[rancherbill]

Hey, put up security cams, I'd like to see videos of the neighbour's response.

 

[rancherbill]

Put up a security cam, that's a really big fence and I am sure there will be a reponse.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Please do not fence too far into your land.

General land use says that for a fence on the property line, the fence becomes joint property after 7 years.

If you "fence out" any of your land, and they take care of that land (the 4 feet they mow), they can then claim that you abandoned the land and they have made improvements to it and they can get it deeded over to them. They may already have claim to it because they have added it to their lawn for years already.

The survey was good. Posted no trespassing signs are good. Trail cams are good.

As suggested already, have a lawyer draft a letter asking them to stop using your land.
Put up a single strand wire fence, hang no trespassing signs on it, if they cut it, then they are showing that they are willfully disregarding the letter and are trespassing. Get that on video.

The light they shine on your place, I know there is a neighborhood ordnance, but there may also be a county one too. Look into it also.

Do these people also do this kind of stuff to others in the neighborhood? Does their land border anyone else (if you mentioned this already I missed it)?

Can you report any of the trash as "illegal dumping" or as vandalism? Will local sheriff help at all?

The burying a dead pet on my land would bother me too.

 

[Forgottonia]

12 foot is silly tall. Go with a 7 foot chain link fence. Or even 3.5 foot for that matter.

If you're building the fence out of spite make sure one of the post holes goes down through Fido's grave. And be sure to post the auguring of that hole on Youtube. lol