Help with TRX72 - very high backdrag

[JBH]

I recently picked up a TRX72 on eBay out of curiosity. I had never used an SO ratchet and the hype machine here got to me. I think, based on online date code charts, my TRX72 was made in 2017.

While I like the lock mechanism, in use it feels really notchy and high in backdrag. While I didn't expect Koken precision, compared to my other 1/4” ratchets (list at end of post) it has worse backdrag than all of them except 120XP.

I opened it up to see if I just got a busted ratchet. (One big plus for Snapper: rebuild kits are very reasonably priced.) The gears and pawls look fine to me and there is some lubrication.

Does it need more? Before I write off Snapper entirely as the Bose or Versace of tools, can I do something to redeem this ratchet? Or is that just how they work?

Other 1/4" drive ratchets for reference: Bahco (US-made; Williams?) 36T QR, Bahco Dual80-really-72, Facom 72T QR rotator, Felo 72T QR, Gearwrench 60Tx2P ("120XP"), Gedore 40T QR, Koken 24T QR flex, Koken Zeal 36T flex, Nepros 90T QR, Proto (FUP) 72T flex, Stahlwille 22T, Stahlwille 80T QR flex, Toptul 72T flex, Würth roto 72T QR, Würth 72T (FUP knockoff).

 

[ChrisLS8]

Clean it out and relube it with air tool oil

 

[M6erfan]

Well...once you go Ko-ken...

IMO the 1/4" T's from S-o aren't they're best ratchets. I like my little T72 but in the BD dept. it's not the best. Strong and smooth though. My $10 Harbor Freight has less back drag.

On yours, I'd just clean it really well then re-lube it, but lightly, don't jam pack the grease in there. S-o recommends Super Lube.

 

[superautobacs]

Well...once you go Ko-ken...

Whether it be MAC or Snap-on ratchets, I have to go on the truck and select the right one for me. I've experienced this many times where the back drag isn't the same between the same product #.


And I second what M6erfan says...their 1/4 drive ratchets are decent. I find their 3/8 tend to have lower back drag.

 

[Wamsutta]

You got more willpower than I do. With my curiosity, I wouldn't be able to take it apart fast enough. I take brand new ratchets apart.

https://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html

 

[M6erfan]

You got more willpower than I do. With my curiosity, I wouldn't be able to take it apart fast enough. I take brand new ratchets apart.

https://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html

Notice how much grease he used? I've seen videos where they fill the whole cavity with grease

 

[Yankee]

Looks like he just put the Super lube in the middle behind the main gear, not on any of the teeth. Does it actually end up on the teeth after use?

Ratchet sounded dry to me after he put it together.

 

[CR888]

Take everything out and clean it in some solvent with an old toothbrush to dissolve grease & remove dirt. Clip 1 coil off pawl spring/s then reassemble and test backdrag. If still too high remove 1/4 coil off spring and test until its perfect. Taking a little off makes a big difference and once removed it can't be put back on so take your time and remove a little at a time. Learn this & you'll NEVER start a thread complaining about back drag for the rest of your life. Good luck.

 

[JBH]

Clean it out and relube it with air tool oil

Hmm. Why air tool oil over Superlube? The main difference for me is that I have a tube of Superlube, but no air tools and thus no oil for them.

Well...once you go Ko-ken...

True enough! Koken is by far my best GJ discovery.

Whether it be MAC or Snap-on ratchets, I have to go on the truck and select the right one for me. I've experienced this many times where the back drag isn't the same between the same product #.

Is their QC really that bad? People put up with that and still buy them?

I have three 1/4" Koken ratchets now (1 bit ratchet, two Koken x Wiha QR flex heads) and they feel exactly the same. That's my expectation for any premium price tool.

You got more willpower than I do. With my curiosity, I wouldn't be able to take it apart fast enough. I take brand new ratchets apart.

Um, you quoted a post with a picture of my ratchet sitting open on my workbench. I also had to take out the gear to examine the condition of the teeth on gear and pawls. Fortunately they did design it to be pretty easy to take apart and put back together. The only remotely tricky bit was the 2-step of reinserting the gear while getting the right compression on the spring between the pawls.

Notice how much grease he used? I've seen videos where they fill the whole cavity with grease

To be sure, that's how it came to me. All I did was open it up.

 

[M6erfan]

I have three 1/4" Koken ratchets now (1 bit ratchet, two Koken x Wiha QR flex heads) and they feel exactly the same. That's my expectation for any premium price tool.


To be sure, that's how it came to me. All I did was open it up.

As to the first part of the above quote. I. Hate. You.

Second, yeah, I knew that, was just saying in general...

 

[Wamsutta]

Notice how much grease he used? I've seen videos where they fill the whole cavity with grease

I apply a thin film to the compartment floor and the walls; then coat the gear pretty good. I can tell by the sound if I have enough grease. If the ratchet is real quiet and not making a clicking noise, that's an indication of too much grease. I still haven't figured out a way to keep the grease away from the screws though.

 

[M6erfan]

I apply a thin film to the compartment floor and the walls; then coat the gear pretty good. I can tell by the sound if I have enough grease. If the ratchet is real quiet and not making a clicking noise, that's an indication of too much grease. I still haven't figured out a way to keep the grease away from the screws though.

Or the spring was cut too much...

 

[Wamsutta]

Or the spring was cut too much...

I'd never do that. My OCD says everything has to be original.

 

[Tallpilot]

IMO the 1/4" T's from S-o aren't they're best ratchets. I like my little T72 but in the BD dept. it's not the best. Strong and smooth though. My $10 Harbor Freight has less back drag.

I only own 3 (one in each drive size) and have to agree. I got the 1/4” second after the 3/8” which just feels wonderful. When I first tried it, I thought it was broken. It really is that much worse than the 3/8”. My 1/2” is also wonderful, so it’s something to do with trying to shrink the mechanism down to that size.

But I don’t know of another 1/4” that was tested to 90 ft/lbs. I doubt I’ll ever put that much force on it but it’s what I grab if 3/8” won’t fit and I really need to pull.

 

[Wamsutta]

I only own 3 (one in each drive size) and have to agree. I got the 1/4” second after the 3/8” which just feels wonderful. When I first tried it, I thought it was broken. It really is that much worse than the 3/8”. My 1/2” is also wonderful, so it’s something to do with trying to shrink the mechanism down to that size.

But I don’t know of another 1/4” that was tested to 90 ft/lbs. I doubt I’ll ever put that much force on it but it’s what I grab if 3/8” won’t fit and I really need to pull.

If I had one I'd find some way to make it smooth.

I'd never give up on a Snap-on.

 

[JBH]

I only own 3 (one in each drive size) and have to agree. I got the 1/4” second after the 3/8” which just feels wonderful. When I first tried it, I thought it was broken. It really is that much worse than the 3/8”. My 1/2” is also wonderful, so it’s something to do with trying to shrink the mechanism down to that size.

Darn. And even used this thing cost almost as much as my new Nepros stubby did! OK, Nepros + the Stahlwille breaker bar I use as the handle was a bit more.

1/4"-drive is really the only thing I use regularly, which is why I picked that size up. My 1/2" drive Facom D-BOX is probably 5-6 years old but could pass for weeks old. I didn't even have 3/8" metric sockets until the crazy Proto deal from Grainger last spring, and I don't think I've used but one size in that set one time so far.

 

[Tallpilot]

If I had one I'd find some way to make it smooth.

I'd never give up on a Snap-on.

I took it apart and checked it out. It works fine; it just isn't amazing and for the price that's irritating. My Pittsburgh Pro feels better but it has the crappy backwards nonpositive detent selector switch that all Taiwan 72 tooth ratchets have. Snap-on wins in the selector switch and comfort grip department. I also have a locking flex because I hate floppy flex heads.

I'm hoping Tekton will make a 10-12" long version.

 

[superautobacs]

Is their QC really that bad? People put up with that and still buy them?

Snap-on QC is notorious.
I assume it doesn't bother most or could care less? Most would pick one up, confirms that it click-clicks, and it's a done deal? Back-drag...what's that?

 

[M6erfan]

Snap-on QC is notorious.

I assume it doesn't bother most or could care less? Most would pick one up, confirms that it click-clicks, and it's a done deal? Back-drag...what's that?

Oh boy...

As to your second sentence... not much choice for us that need to order online from their website.

 

[superautobacs]

Oh boy...

As to your second sentence... not much choice for us that need to order online from their website.

Offensive statement, I understand. Then again, only discerning tool buyers would notice/care for some of the things I've noticed.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I don't hesitate in buying from Japanese brands like KTC/Ko-ken because over the course of 10+ years, I don't think I've experienced buyers remorse due to a lack of QC or varying QC levels. Consistency is there. Can't exactly put MAC/Snap-on on the same level in that regard.

 

[M6erfan]

Offensive statement, I understand. Then again, only discerning tool buyers would notice/care for some of the things I've noticed.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I don't hesitate in buying from Japanese brands like KTC/Ko-ken because over the course of 10+ years, I don't think I've experienced buyers remorse due to a lack of QC or varying QC levels. Consistency is there. Can't exactly put MAC/Snap-on on the same level in that regard.

I think Wamsutta just exploded....

Edit: And I 100% agree RE: Ko-Ken/KTC

 

[M_George]

I have a Carlyle 1/4 flex head. It's go to for 1/4 inch.

 

[superautobacs]

I think Wamsutta just exploded....

Edit: And I 100% agree RE: Ko-Ken/KTC

 

[Flash21]

Offensive statement, I understand. Then again, only discerning tool buyers would notice/care for some of the things I've noticed.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I don't hesitate in buying from Japanese brands like KTC/Ko-ken because over the course of 10+ years, I don't think I've experienced buyers remorse due to a lack of QC or varying QC levels. Consistency is there. Can't exactly put MAC/Snap-on on the same level in that regard.

Good feedback; And I agree with super - USA manufacturing QC on some aspects of tools isn't what you would think it would be -- ESPECIALLY when you consider the asking price....box end wrenches that are supposed to be bent at 15 degrees and are more like 25 or 30, sockets without stamping, box end broaches that are way off center, as stated here - inconsistent backdrag, etc. Most buyers may not notice and therefore perhaps not worth the expense to increase the quality if the buyer turns a blind eye.

 

[JBH]

Snap-on QC is notorious.

And I agree with super - USA manufacturing QC on some aspects of tools isn't what you would think it would be -- ESPECIALLY when you consider the asking price....

That is consistent with my limited experience. The pliers are just terrible in both design and build quality, but very expensive. This ratchet does not currently feel like a premium tool in use, compared to Koken, Nepros, Gedore, Facom, or Stahlwille ratchets. I'm going to clean and re-lube it per guidance here. and will update after that.

Funny, one rarely reads about functional QC issues here, even though one would think they're more pressing than the sheen of the chrome. Lots of delivery van franchisees among the vocal posters?

 

[M6erfan]

That is consistent with my limited experience. The pliers are just terrible in both design and build quality, but very expensive. This ratchet does not currently feel like a premium tool in use, compared to Koken, Nepros, Gedore, Facom, or Stahlwille ratchets. I'm going to clean and re-lube it per guidance here. and will update after that.

Funny, one rarely reads about functional QC issues here, even though one would think they're more pressing than the sheen of the chrome. Lots of delivery van franchisees among the vocal posters?

It is kind of funny. Complain about QC issues on S-o or SK and one is labeled a tool polisher, complain about QC on HF and no arguments. Even though the price points have a very wide gap.

I'm not sure what you're going on about with S-o pliers though. They are outstanding in my book. And I'm fairly critical.

 

[JBH]

It is kind of funny. Complain about QC issues on S-o or SK and one is labeled a tool polisher, complain about QC on HF and no arguments. Even though the price points have a very wide gap.

Even more puzzling is that conversations about things that actually matter in use (such as varying backdrag from unit to unit, which means lax QC for key component parts such as springs, which should not happen at price-points above bargain-basement) don't seem to happen.

I'm not sure what you're going on about with S-o pliers though. They are outstanding in my book. And I'm fairly critical.

While some of my dislike of my Snapper pliers may come down to poor QC (specifically, subpar joint machining), the basic design of the 8" needle noses is just terrible. With jaws closed, the handles are splayed 15-25mm wider than any other pair I currently own. And I have about 20 on my workbench right now, ranging from the obvious (Knipex, VBW, Klein, NWS, Facom) to the downright obscure (Urrea, SAM). So they're uncomfortable to hold and use, without any notable advantage for it.

 

[M6erfan]

While some of my dislike of my Snapper pliers may come down to poor QC (specifically, subpar joint machining), the basic design of the 8" needle noses is just terrible. With jaws closed, the handles are splayed 15-25mm wider than any other pair I currently own. And I have about 20 on my workbench right now, ranging from the obvious (Knipex, VBW, Klein, NWS, Facom) to the downright obscure (Urrea, SAM). So they're uncomfortable to hold and use, without any notable advantage for it.

Dang, you made me look... Talk about a thread derail





Hint, the S-o's aren't the widest... They seem perfectly in line with what I see as the "norm" for 8" size pliers. I'm sure there are some that are narrower, but none of these in any way feel uncomfortable to use, and I have medium sized hands. If anything, the Channellocks feel a bit small and uncomfortable as their thin handles tend to "dig' into my hands.

Channellock 3017: 48.5mm
Knipex 02-02-200: 56mm
Snap-on 96ACF: 56.5mm
Craftsman PRO USA: 58mm
Blackhawk PT-1310: 60.5mm

 

[JBH]

Hint, the S-o's aren't the widest... They seem perfectly in line with what I see as the "norm" for 8" size pliers.

Where do you even grab those Channellocks? Such an odd design.

I was slightly unclear. I was only comparing to other ~8" needle-nose pliers, not combis or other pliers formats. I am specifically noting the difference where the pliers' grips naturally place one's thumb and forefinger.

Here are some representative examples, measured from where my thumb and index finger naturally fall:

Facom: 46.5mm
Gedore: 38.4mm
Hazet: 37.6mm
Klein: 33.5mm
Knipex: 34.5mm
NWS: (Phoenix Contact brand, VDE insulated handles): 35.0mm
Snapper: 50.4mm

Compare Klein to Snapper:

Also note that Facom sprung open is only about 5mm wider than Snapper closed. Maybe with spring-loading and competent joint machining Snapper would be less odious to use.

By contrast, there's nothing especially wrong with this Snapper ratchet's ergonomics. The handle is fine. The lock design is excellent. The head is small enough, though the "hock a loogie on the top" directional switch design is not elegant. So far - again, I'll reserve final judgment until I clean and lube it - the internals just don't seem precisely made or fitted as on the much less expensive Franco-Italian, German, Japanese, or Taiwanese competition.

 

[M6erfan]

Ah, I see. Well, most every plier manufacturer has their own handle shape so it's a bit subjective I suppose. I use my S-o's more than any other (needle-nose) and it never crossed my mind that they were uncomfortable or difficult to use. Matter of fact they are by far my favorites. And I am far from a Snap-on fanboy...

 

[Tonyuk]

My snap on 1/4 ratchet was junk, high-ish back drag and the pivot on the head snapped after about a week of use. Warrantied it, new one is a bit better.

If you want a good 1/4 ratchet then the best i have is an 84 tooth gearwrench. Its the flex head that semi-locks in place.

Wera do a great standard 1/4" ratchet, its their all metal one.

The tekton swivel-ball 1/4 ratchets are okay, tough but a bit 'coarse'.

A composite 1/4" is a must have also imo. Low back drag and fits well in the hand, HF sell them im sure.

 

[kelwar]

I have 2 1/4" snapon ratchets. The one had noticeable higher back drag and always annoyed me so I never used it. Finally I got fed up and put a rebuild kit in it. Worked perfectly after. I probably had that ratchet apart a half a dozen times and compared it to the other one and could never find a problem. So that's what I would try before giving up on it. They also take a while to break in.

 

[Tallpilot]

I am not sure if it has any relevance at all to this discussion but when I first opened up my 1/4" I thought it was strange it didn't have the wavy spring that the larger sizes do. Does that contribute to higher backdrag?

 

[Mr_B]

My snap on 1/4 ratchet was junk, high-ish back drag and the pivot on the head snapped after about a week of use. Warrantied it, new one is a bit better.

If you want a good 1/4 ratchet then the best i have is an 84 tooth gearwrench. Its the flex head that semi-locks in place.

Wera do a great standard 1/4" ratchet, its their all metal one.

The tekton swivel-ball 1/4 ratchets are okay, tough but a bit 'coarse'.

A composite 1/4" is a must have also imo. Low back drag and fits well in the hand, HF sell them im sure.

^
yeh those quick release roto/swivel head ratchets are course, they same oem as laser and pittsburgh pro ones.
strong ratchet though and worth having when see super low prices .
can't strip them to grease either as press crimped via button .
The toptul non QR are way better and have hex screw for dismantling and if grease them they pretty smooth .
Snapon ratchets can be bit hit and miss, stahlwille and koken 2 brands with great ratchets and sensible pricing with consistent QC

 

[JBH]

stahlwille and koken 2 brands with great ratchets and sensible pricing with consistent QC

Stahlwille 22T (?) is not bad, but not nearly as smooth or low backdrag as Koken. It's a little better than the Bahco/Williams 36T (?). Considering Koken is almost always cheaper, Stahlwille is hard to justify.

They have new 80T models, but their pricing is at American tool co levels of stupid crazy. The 416QR (1/4" drive locking flex head) is $155 at KC Tool, and even in their domestic market it's 100+ EUR.

 

[Mr_B]

^
I have the 80 tooth standard and long locking flexi in 3/8 and 1/2, very low back drag and good precise movement, nice satin chrome and feel strong/rigid, purchased straight from germany for pretty much same price range as koken .
The 72 tooth versions are waste of money, toptul 72T (or any better end taiwan 72T) are as good/better and 3rd the cost .
Koken is a hard one beat on price to product ratio if source best prices .

 

[paulsomlo]

I am not sure if it has any relevance at all to this discussion but when I first opened up my 1/4" I thought it was strange it didn't have the wavy spring that the larger sizes do. Does that contribute to higher backdrag?

I bought a 3/8" flex head off ebay that had two of the wavy springs doubled up - I took one out.

 

[Flash21]

^
...purchased straight from germany for pretty much same price range as koken ....

Source?

 

[superautobacs]

Since we're talking about pliers as well...

I'm generally unimpressed with Snap-on's pliers. Whenever I do grab one, out of curiosity, I do my usual round of inspecting the cutting edge, alignment, grinding marks, and open and close them to get a feel of the joint. Nine times out of ten, I put them back on the wall. The joints are often too stiff and sometimes the stiffness on the joint varies depending on the range of motion. Even if they were half off, I'd still contemplate it. The one recent exception were their miniature plier set made in Spain. I do like the cross-hatched serrations they have on the talon grip pliers though.

Late last year I noticed some relatively new tools that one of the apprentices has used his hard earned money on....the standard set of pliers that a Snap-on driver tries to push....the 3-peice set which includes the 96ACF

Nothing really out of the ordinary I thought. Unevenly ground, overly stiff joints, but the jaws being out of alignment was a bit of a surprise. How is that even acceptable?


Snap-on 96ACF Needle Nose Pliers--poor grinding by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr


Snap-on 96ACF Needle Nose Pliers--poor grinding and joint by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr


Snap-on 96ACF Needle Nose Pliers--poor alignment by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr

 

[M6erfan]

Wow. Amazing that those got past QC.