Help with weld issue

[goaticus]

So, I finally got parts for my tig torch back and for the first time I am having this problem with my welds on mild steel. I'm a total new trying to practice and am not sure what this means. I tried turning up and down the heat/argon, with no real correction. suddenly I am thinking the torch parts I got aren't correct? and maybe not letting the gas through?
Thanks

 

[Zeke]

Actually your deposits and penetration are not completely out of the ball park. You overcooked the bottom one. I think your method of moving the tungsten and placing the filler rod in the puddle just needs some practice. Yes, everyone loves the stack of dimes look but you do need to know how to run a smooth continuous bead. The little ripples will appear on their own.

 

[split150]

What machine? What thickness material? Torch side connected to DC Negative?

Are the black spots burn through, or a bunch of pepper in the puddle?

 

[steel 35]

Start with something thicker.

 

[goaticus]

That's at least 1/8" metal, DC Neg, the black spots are bubble/pepper not burn through, my heat was low enough I could have sat there and not burned through for a bit. Like I said, even from the FIRST time TIG'ing, I've never had this happen.

@Steel 35, I currently reside in the Emerald triangle.

Also, I have an Everlast MTS 250 which I love!

 

[Zeke]

There is some contamination there as suggested. When you light up again make sure the steel is shiny clean and free of scale. If you have a proper flow meter use 15 CFM to start. You are using the pedal, right?

 

[OxJaw]

Try practicing starting a bead and running it without filler rod first. That way you can get the hang of puddle control. Once you get nice consistent looking beads you can try to add some filler. It looks like your moving to fast and adding to much filler at once. You need to get a decent puddle at the start and then just dip the rod into the arc, so you don't over add filler.

It looks like you jumped when you've the torch, you need a nice smooth consistent travel speed going right to left if you're right handed, opposite if you're left handed.

 

[goaticus]

There is some contamination there as suggested. When you light up again make sure the steel is shiny clean and free of scale. If you have a proper flow meter use 15 CFM to start. You are using the pedal, right?

Yes. Actually, pedal pulse practice was the intent of this when i sat down.

 

[Zeke]

Forget the pulse for now. Running fusion beads as OxJaw said is how I started off in school.

 

[bullnerd]

So, you were ok before reassembling your torch with new parts, now, something is not right?

Double check your assy?

Have some assy. info? Manual, online, etc.?

Post some pics of your torch unassembled?

 

[dogdog]

not enough gas or dirty metal those orange spots...are something what I get when I forgot to turn on gas. you are using argon?

 

[that-guy]

some specs on your setup would be nice. flow rate, tungsten color, tungsten size, cup size, amps, pre/post flow...all pretty vital information...the bubbles in the weld indicates little to no gas coverage...i see this problem all the time with MIG, but never with TIG

as others have stated, try doing a bead with no filler, just torch and get that technique down before over complicating things by adding filler

 

[zkling]

The orange spots are where you dipped the tungsten. The porosity air pockets are a lack of shielding gas coverage. Possibly an issue with gas supply or just a torch angle issue. Even could be caused by a cross breeze.

To test for lack of shielding, clean everything, fresh grind on the tungsten strike and arc for a few seconds and then let it cool down, don't move the torch. Examine the tungsten and base metal for discoloration. You could have a leak in the system, or a post flow setting issue.

Just keep running beads on flat plate. Start by getting rid of contamination and porosity issues then worry about too much heat. I like to think of it as such. Strike an arc, give it gas, let the puddle grow, when the puddle grows dip the filler in the leading edge of the puddle (not the arc), pull back filler, move torch ~1/8" to the right and repeat. Wait for the puddle to take the filler, don't try to force the filler into the puddle via the torch.

Keep practicing. You'll get there

 

[A_Pmech]

Slow... Down... Waaaay down!

You're using waaay too much heat there. The holes you see are likely from rapidly extinguishing the arc while in the puddle. The arc digs a crater which needs time to collapse. The greater the power input, the bigger the crater.

1) Set your Argon at about 15 CFH. Higher than that isn't necessary.

2) Sharpen your tungsten. Once contaminated the tungsten will deposit in the weld puddle.

3) Get comfortable and relaxed. I like to TIG small parts with the table mid-chest height, so I can rest my right elbows on the table surface. If I feel I'm straining, something isn't right.

4) SLOWLY ramp up the power until you see a puddle form. Then, control the puddle size with power and travel speed. You'll find ramping down after the initial puddle is necessary as the steel warms up.

5) When you're done with a bead, finish it out with a bit of extra filler as you SLOWLY ramp down until the torch goes out.

This may also be helpful:

https://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf

 

[Wes917]

Looks like you need to clean your material better. It looks like you only ground about half the plate. Why are you pulsing the pedal? It looks like you need to practice just running beads first. The porosity/holes is most likely a gas coverage problem. What was your flow rate? If its to high it can cause that to. Other likely culprit is contamination from the base material. Did you wipe your wire with acetone along with the base metal?

 

[R.Anderson]

The orange spots are where you dipped the tungsten. The porosity air pockets are a lack of shielding gas coverage. Possibly an issue with gas supply or just a torch angle issue. Even could be caused by a cross breeze.

Keep practicing. You'll get there

This will also happen when there is no shielding gas.

I only see this type of picture when the wrong shielding gas was used, with the right gas but its out, or the gas is not getting to the weld zone. Make sure your tank is not empty. Do you hear gas coming out your torch? if not check the collet you might have it in backwards this can block the shielding gas and check valves and regulator.

 

[duhicky]

Looks like your sucking air into your shielding gas. see this all the time when welding boiler tubes and no one performs a drop check off the tig rig when first set up or after bottle changes. Your bottle side of the gauge should hold when shut off. If you have 1000psi in your bottle when its open, it should still read 1000psi when its shut off and let sit for hours. Also make sure your argon bottle is fully turned open so the packing seats in the valve stem.

 

[countryroad82]

Aaaannnndddd this is why I'm not a fan of tig welding, too much work to get good at it! Yes, you can make **** welds with one, after 10 years of practice! As you may have noticed I can't tig, got pi$$ed, put the torch down, and walked away! Not knocking anyone wanting to learn, I have tried off and on for a few years but I can't get the hang of it. But I can't stick weld all that well either soooo that could have something to do with it. Sorry I couldn't help, I can only help vent my frustration! Good luck!

 

[goaticus]

Thanks for all the help. I hope to get at it tonight. I also appreciate all the good info. Like I said, I have been practicing for several months now and made some pretty nice welds. From the first time until now, the only other time I have had this issue (which includes pulsing with the pedal, working at the same settings on the same thickness, adding filler, not adding filler, etc) the only other time this has happened was the time I forgot to turn on the argon bottle.

On a side note/rookie move, I don't open the valve on the tank all the way. Will do from now on

 

[NASTYZEN]

I have an older torch that gives me porosity like I see in your welds. It somehow ***** air in somewhere. After trying to fix it and it still giving me grief. I had to replace it. Take it apart and re-assemble it very carefully.

Another way I get porosity in welds like that is to be using filler rod for Oxy-Ace welding. The metallurgical composition of these rods is not suited for tig

 

[goaticus]

Just be be clear, I was having this issue with the blistering both with and without filler.

 

[mr overdunne]

Clean your metal and your tungsten.

 

[dr_clyde]

You have a shielding gas problem. Porosity is ALWAYS a function of shielding. Sometimes it comes from simply lack of gas, wrong gas, or too much gas. Too much gas causes turbulence and pulls in outside air. I once had a bad cylinder of argon that was either mislabeled, or just not filled right and it drove me nuts trying to figure out where the problem was.

Sometimes contaminants in the base metal burn and introduce other gases to the weld, even if the gas was correct. Mill scale, rust, paint or plating can do this.

Sometimes the o-ring in the back cap is bad or missing, causing a poor seal and drawing in atmospheric contaminants. Check to make sure that the torch is properly assembled and sealed. Also check the connections to the machine from the cylinder and from the machine to the torch. Loose fittings let in air.

Clean the metal with a grinder to bright shiny metal. Set your flowmeter to 15 CFH PURE argon, not C25 or any other mix. Make sure your torch is all set up right. Looks like 14 ga or so, set the machine at 125 amps and throttle with the foot pedal about 3/4 of the way.

Just make a puddle, don't try to weld a bead. If it bubbles, pops or in any way reacts, you still have a shielding problem. It should light up a clean and calm puddle with no pits or craters. Once you get the puddle to behave correctly, then you can proceed to weld beads and joints.

 

[Wes917]

You have a shielding gas problem. Porosity is ALWAYS a function of shielding. Sometimes it comes from simply lack of gas, wrong gas, or too much gas. Too much gas causes turbulence and pulls in outside air. I once had a bad cylinder of argon that was either mislabeled, or just not filled right and it drove me nuts trying to figure out where the problem was.

Sometimes contaminants in the base metal burn and introduce other gases to the weld, even if the gas was correct. Mill scale, rust, paint or plating can do this.

Sometimes the o-ring in the back cap is bad or missing, causing a poor seal and drawing in atmospheric contaminants. Check to make sure that the torch is properly assembled and sealed. Also check the connections to the machine from the cylinder and from the machine to the torch. Loose fittings let in air.

Clean the metal with a grinder to bright shiny metal. Set your flowmeter to 15 CFH PURE argon, not C25 or any other mix. Make sure your torch is all set up right. Looks like 14 ga or so, set the machine at 125 amps and throttle with the foot pedal about 3/4 of the way.

Just make a puddle, don't try to weld a bead. If it bubbles, pops or in any way reacts, you still have a shielding problem. It should light up a clean and calm puddle with no pits or craters. Once you get the puddle to behave correctly, then you can proceed to weld beads and joints.

This is a very good post, and covers a lot of good material. If I was you I would snoop the lines/connections, and clean the whole plate and wipe with acetone.

 

[welder4956]

As others have mentioned, you have a shielding gas problem. Check all the torch connections to make sure they are not leaking. You can take the tungsten out of the collet and hold your thumb over the end of the cup to pressurize the torch and check for leaks.

Also, pay close attention to the arc length. I see a lot of new welders pulling the torch away from the metal trying to see the puddle better. The tungsten should not stick out past the end of the ceramic cup more than the inside diameter of the nozzle, and the distance between the tip of the tungsten and the metal should not be more than about 1/4". Any more than that and you are more likely to lose shielding gas coverage. Also watch the torch angle and keep it as near perpendicular to the metal as you can. It is Ok to lean it back about 15 degrees to see the puddle better, but more than that can affect the shielding gas coverage also. A 10-15 CFH flow rate should be good.

Can you post some pics of the torch with the new parts? If you can, show us one with the ceramic cup on and one with it removed.

 

[goaticus]

Well, I went home and took the torch apart and reassembled. Nothing in backwards etc. I made sure to open the bottle valve all the way. I rechecked my settings on the machine and left them were they were. I cleaned the surface really well. And, as you can tell buy reading this, I did NOT follow the Scientific Method. Needless to say it worked. What worked, I don't know. But it welded like it usually does, smooth as silk. My skills leave much to be desired.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Glad you got it worked out. Sometimes things just want to be taken apart and put back together again.

 

[V-10 Killer]

Are the newer Everlast argon regulators still measured in Litres per minute (LPM), or did they start sending them with CFH measurement? That messed with me when I first started welding, was going through argon REALLY fast lol.

And btw, the welds look much better!

 

[dr_clyde]

Don't have much experience with everlast regs, but my smith and victor regs have LPM and CFM on two scales.

I prefer the true flowmeters with the ball that floats to the flow, versus the twin round gauge style. Easier to see from farther away.

 

[raddksn]

Have you tryed a gas lens kit, let's you get the electrode out where you can see what's going on in the puddle. I also am learning tig and a gas lens helped me!

 

[goaticus]

Are the newer Everlast argon regulators still measured in Litres per minute (LPM)...?

Yes. Luckily the refernce sheet I am using for metal : amps : flow has both LPM and CFM.

Have you tryed a gas lens kit, let's you get the electrode out where you can see what's going on in the puddle. I also am learning tig and a gas lens helped me!

I will look into that. It would be nice to have greater vis.

 

[gbsmithy08]

Hey goaticus did you say you were from the emerald triangle as in Mendocino?

 

[goaticus]

Not, quite. I currently reside in the triangle county to the north, and am in the process of moving to the county on it's southerly, eastern border.

 

[jeffhayden]

Yes, it can be seeing in the image which you have posted. But don’t feel sad about that, Why not you are concerning to any technician who can shot out the trouble? I hope your problem will be easily solved.

 

[goaticus]

Yes, it can be seeing in the image which you have posted. But don’t feel sad about that, Why not you are concerning to any technician who can shot out the trouble? I hope your problem will be easily solved.

uuuhhh...what?

 

[steel 35]

Looks like you got it going, and good luck with the move.

 

[mtrcycldude]

Not enough gas or wrong mix - 100% argon, 75/25 etc... It's a gas problem.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Sometimes the argon has issues getting from the tank to the cup.

Sometimes the argon bottle is misfilled or you have the wrong bottle...ie, you have a bottle of mig mix. Pure CO2 is worse.

Good argon flow is a major item to check and troubleshoot. Check connections, check flow, etc...

 

[theknurl]

look at the 1st pictures......bright shiny beads.....

its not contamination, gas flow, gas mix or rod....it's him pulsing the pedal......the 2nd pictures won't come up on my screen

been welding for 58 years I use Linde 65 for steel.....it's the recommended rod for 4130 gas or TIG...and mild steel too

 

[dr_clyde]

Pulsing the pedal will not cause porosity. It may make a funky shaped puddle, or he may over heat the weld, but porosity is a shielding problem.