Help with well pump start capacitor

[jmhjgh]

Hello, the well pump failed and it is from the 50's. The numbers on the start capacitor have somewhat worn off. I am looking for help sourcing this or a similar sized capacitor. General Electric 35F1108BA1, and then 1887433. May be 266 uF. Please see the picture. Thanks for your help.

 

[LopezBart]

Missing image from Reddit post:

 

[BrandonV]

Hello, the well pump failed and it is from the 50's. The numbers on the start capacitor have somewhat worn off. I am looking for help sourcing this or a similar sized capacitor. General Electric 35F1108BA1, and then 1887433. May be 266 uF. Please see the picture. Thanks for your help.

Can you post any nameplate information for the pump?

 

[jmhjgh]

It is a submersible well pump. The control panel is inside the house. Unfortunately, the control panel does not list which model it is.

 

[RPH]

Looks like 179 mfd @ 250 vac. The low end I can’t read on the capacitor value. But any bigger is fine, just respect the voltage rating. Once again higher better. Too low and you get to see the sparkles come from it.

 

[jmhjgh]

Thanks. This might be as close as I can find.

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Version-Capacitor-Replacement-BlueStars/dp/B0CMTDCHSJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[The Cobbler]

The low end I can’t read on the capacitor value. But any bigger is fine,

I don't think you want to go too much higher on the MF .as long as it's in the range you will be OK and voltage needs to be at least 240 ( or higher)

Thanks. This might be as close as I can find.

you have some good choices in there I'd say

you have confirmed the cap is bad I assume?

 

[BrandonV]

Yup. You don't want to go high. My advice is to get a capacitor at the lower range on average for an electric motor with a given HP rating and see if it struggles to start. If it does, bump it out a bit but stop before you go to high or you'll cause the motor premature wear.

 

[RPH]

That should work, keep in mind these are not precision capacitors. A +/- 20% tolerance band is large, that should give you a sense of relief.

 

[dogdog]

Thanks. This might be as close as I can find.

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Version-Capacitor-Replacement-BlueStars/dp/B0CMTDCHSJ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

One pattern you will notice on these ac electrolyte capacitors is that within the same voltage rating that you can see and the capacitance the size and dimension of the physical body of the capacitor are usually the same, regardless of manufacture.

Maybe search for one that have the same voltage rating and… physical dimensions or similar?

From your Amazon listing

• SPECIFICATIONS - Capacitance: 216-259 uF MFD; Rated voltage: 220-250VAC; Tolerance: +/-20%; Shape: Round Run; Size: Wide: 1-3/8 inch (35mm) and Height 3-11/32 inch (85mm). Height;

 

[jmhjgh]

The run capacitor is a 10MFD rated at 370/440V. Can we learn anything from the sizing of the run capacitor to help with the start capacitor sizing, or is that only dependent on the motor windings? The one I listed is very close in physical size to the old unit. I measured the old unit at 1.25" dia and 3.25" tall. I wish I was confident in the original size of the start capacitor. This is a deep well motor so you are not able to hear the motor start.

 

[BrandonV]

Is there any model number for the control box? Red Jacket calls for a 10 MFD run capacitor paired with a 160 MFD start capacitor for a lot of their older pumps.

 

[jmhjgh]

Here is the control box picture, but it does not specify which pump.

 

[BrandonV]

So you may want to ohm out the windings to figure out which motor you have. Then go from there (call Veeder-Root).

Sold items on eBay show 53 - 64 MFD as being popular which would correlate with the physical dimensions you gave.

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Motor-Start-Capacitor-220-2MER4

 

[fitter30]

Look at page 8 top left looks like 250volt. 64-77 mfd

https://hallmanlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/GE-Capacitor-Catalog-1973-158pg-HL-Scan.pdf

 

[BrandonV]

Look at page 8 top left looks like 250volt. 64-77 mfd

https://hallmanlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/GE-Capacitor-Catalog-1973-158pg-HL-Scan.pdf

Great find!

 

[jmhjgh]

Thank you all for responding and sharing information. That was exactly the type of catalog pdf I was looking for, but never found.
This one looks to be very close. A little shorter and larger.

https://www.amazon.com/59-71-MFD-220-250-Round-Capacitor/dp/B0C2KK9589/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[BrandonV]

Thank you all for responding and sharing information. That was exactly the type of catalog pdf I was looking for, but never found.
This one looks to be very close. A little shorter and larger.

https://www.amazon.com/59-71-MFD-220-250-Round-Capacitor/dp/B0C2KK9589/?tag=atomicindus08-20

You might want to avoid Amazon. Too many Chinese knockoff capacitors on there.

If you have a local HVAC, pool supply store, or Grainger I'd opt to try to find one there. Even my local hardware store sells capacitors.

 

[jmhjgh]

I received the capacitor but it is slightly larger and the terminals do not align. I am going to keep looking for one that is a better match. I did jumper it to see if it works, and the pump started up and I had water flowing. The capacitor gets hot (you can still touch it but it is hot). I thought they dropped out of the circuit after starting?

 

[RPH]

Check the starting relay contact and coil. Contacts welded together from arcing can cause the winding to remain in circuit. I would replace it for just cause because I’m already there. Safety first as capacitors fail dramatically.

 

[jmhjgh]

Good idea. Now I need to find a replacement relay. Grainger did have the same size and rating capacitor that I was able to source one locally.

 

[fitter30]

Pic of the relay and numbers.

 

[jmhjgh]

The well pump feeds outside faucets only and we have a bit of sediment and iron in the water. Last night the pump was running with the jumpered capacitor and seemed fine, but it only ran for a few minutes. I purchased a Dayton from Grainger that should have been an exact match, though the voltage was rated at 330. I installed the new capacitor and started the hose and it ran until the bladder tank emptied and then there is often a pause of 20-30 seconds and then the pump catches up and water flows. After the bladder empties there was no new flow, and I think the new capacitor blew (it was not bulged, but seemed to leak oil). So either it was a bad new capacitor or the relay is sticking and caused my issues. The relay is a 3ARR3.

DAYTON Motor Start Capacitor: 330V AC, 64-77 mfd, Round, 3 3/8 in Case Ht, 1 13/16 in Dia​

 

[BrandonV]

The well pump feeds outside faucets only and we have a bit of sediment and iron in the water. Last night the pump was running with the jumpered capacitor and seemed fine, but it only ran for a few minutes. I purchased a Dayton from Grainger that should have been an exact match, though the voltage was rated at 330. I installed the new capacitor and started the hose and it ran until the bladder tank emptied and then there is often a pause of 20-30 seconds and then the pump catches up and water flows. After the bladder empties there was no new flow, and I think the new capacitor blew (it was not bulged, but seemed to leak oil). So either it was a bad new capacitor or the relay is sticking and caused my issues. The relay is a 3ARR3.

DAYTON Motor Start Capacitor: 330V AC, 64-77 mfd, Round, 3 3/8 in Case Ht, 1 13/16 in Dia​

Higher voltage is better for the capacitor. It's the maximum voltage rating.

This is basically a hard start setup. If the relay sticks closed you could blow the capacitor as its never taken out of the circuit. So I would focus on getting a new relay and another capacitor.

 

[BrandonV]

@jmhjgh ping me via PM if you want an extra capacitor shipped to you for free. I've had a new 64-77 MFD 220-250 VAC start capacitor sitting on my desk for around two years now.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I installed the new capacitor and started the hose and it ran until the bladder tank emptied and then there is often a pause of 20-30 seconds and then the pump catches up and water flows. After the bladder empties there was no new flow,

the pump should be kicking on before you run out of water.

I would check your bladder tank pressure. it should be 2PSI below your pressure switch cut-in setting. after adjusting that, adjust your pressure switch cut-in setting to a couple PSI above that so the pump will start running before the tank is empty

 

[fitter30]

3ARR3 there should be 4 number and or letters after your posted numbers.

 

[jmhjgh]

3ARR3 EA5B5 and then there is a 071-070

 

[jmhjgh]

Hello all, I replaced the relay (blown coil) and the capacitor . The well pump is back running. Thank you to everyone for input and offers of materials.!

 

[Hal]

Glad you got it working. I have never dug into one of those controls, just replaced the whole thing when it gave trouble.

 

[gregs]

Glad you got it sorted out. Because the well is our water source for the entire house, I keep a box of spares for all the parts in the control box and a spare pressure switch also. It never fails to have a problem at night or on the weekend and what could be a long delay or expensive trip usually turns into a 20-30 minute repair.

 

[yatg]

Glad you got it sorted out. Because the well is our water source for the entire house, I keep a box of spares for all the parts in the control box and a spare pressure switch also. It never fails to have a problem at night or on the weekend and what could be a long delay or expensive trip usually turns into a 20-30 minute repair.

Great idea. Much cheaper than calling the "well guy".