help with wiring for a 220 welder

[tpolley]

we're renting a house. i want to run a 220 line to the garage for a welder. i don't know anything about residential wiring. i plan to have a professional do the job.

i was looking at the box last night and it doesnt look like i have room to run a 220 line for a welder. my setup is 3 fuse boxes and a circuit breaker panel. i think the breaker panel is full. if i understand correctly i need two spaces in the breaker panel for 220 right? i only see one empty space. nothing is labeled. any ideas? should i stick with a 110v welder?

 

[sberry]

What welder are you getting?

 

[Cobra4B]

I may be wrong, but if the welder is 220V don't you run a 240 line?

 

[Evmaniac]

Since you're renting, and might just be looking for temporary power for the welder, if you've got a dryer plug near the garage you could put a plug on the welder for it.

 

[tpolley]

theres electric dryer and electric stove hookups within 10 feet of the garage but wouldn't those be on a 30 amp circuit and don't 220v welders require a 50 amp circuit?

 

[nehog]

From a typical electrician's viewpoint most would be not touch that setup. Mixed breakers and fuses, none of that seems to meet code, and poses a huge liability issue for the electrician. As well, the property owner would have to consent to your doing what you want to do, too, and he/she may not be willing for the same reasons.

I also see only two wires coming in for the main feed, so there seems to be no neutral. Personally, I think you have bigger problems than wiring up a welder!

Consider this: the electrician will come in, and do wiring. Then the building inspector will come in and say "This entire setup must now meet code". And you could find yourself homeless fast--if the building inspector wants he can condemn the property as not fit for habitation until it is brought up to code.

OK, on the drier/range outlets... What are the specifications on the data plate on the welder. You'll see volts, and amps listed. And perhaps power-factor and phase specifications. Post these numbers.

 

[tpolley]

i don't have a welder yet. i'm looking for a used one. i want a 220 but so far its not looking like the house can handle it.

 

[nehog]

i don't have a welder yet. i'm looking for a used one. i want a 220 but so far its not looking like the house can handle it.

Personally, I'd think twice about trying to tie a welder into that setup...

Were this my property, I'd also replace that mixed breaker/fuse setup with a new box that is more close to code. Were there a fire, or someone were injured, the landlord might find that they were liable...

If you are 'determined' to get a welder, figure out what the power available at the drier outlet is. (probably 20 or 30 amps.) Then buy a welder that uses less current than that.

 

[tdkkart]

theres electric dryer and electric stove hookups within 10 feet of the garage but wouldn't those be on a 30 amp circuit and don't 220v welders require a 50 amp circuit?

Not neccesarily, depends on the welder. Check the specs.
Your stove circuit should be 50amps, the dryer is most likely 30.
Under "normal" circumstances either one would probably run a welder.

However, the warnings you are hearing from the others have merit. I haven't seen a service panel like that since my first house, and I replaced that immediately after purchase.

While the system may be working fine as is, and may work fine for a long time as long as everything stays the same. As soon as you change something you most likely will have problems.
Old electrics are like that, work fine as long as everything stays the same, as soon as you try to make it do more, even within it's capacity, the smoke starts rolling.

You may want to look for somewhere else to do your welding.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Do you have a good friend that will let you store and use your welder at his garage in return for limited use of your welder if he needs one? That would be the best thing to do. Like the others above, I would be very hesitant to add to the wiring at that location given that you rent and do not own the property.

 

[mikeyr]

Since you are renting you could use the dryer plug has already mentioned, remember that as you go up in thickness of steel, the amps go up. My TIG is supposed to be on a 50amp plug but I ran it for years on a 30AMP dryer plug without every popping the breaker. If I had tried to weld 3/8" or 1/2" steel I bet I would have but it worked great for sheet metal and stuff up to 3/16"

I purchased the TIG in anticipation of moving and having the proper power to feed it, I would not have been happy with a smaller welder, I just could not use it to its full capacity for 2 years.

 

[JBurgess]

The two orange breakers in the middle of the pannel do not apear to have wires on them.
You could replace them with a 50 amp breaker.

Of course I should mention Yikes ZINSCO panel.

 

[hidollartoys]

tpolley, PM me with your phone # and I might be able to help, I live in Gardner, KS

 

[Aceman]

That house could really, really use a service change. Or maybe at the least consolidate all those fuse boxes into one breakered subpanel and sort out all that spaghetti cascading down into those panels.

Biggest thing I seem to find is that folks replace those screw in fuses with 30 amp ones regardless of the wire size. It could be #14, 12, 10 etc. Those houses don't usually have very many circuits to begin with, so it's almost a guarantee the fuses have been replaced with oversized ones.

 

[tpolley]

The two orange breakers in the middle of the pannel do not apear to have wires on them.
You could replace them with a 50 amp breaker.

Of course I should mention Yikes ZINSCO panel.

you're right!

so, if i understand, there are two posts on the back side of these breakers right? each post is connected to each of the two big *** wires at the top of the box and each wire is 110 volts right? to get 220 volts one would connect wires to the screws on the right side of the breakers and route those wires along with a ground wire to the garage where they would go to the recepticle. am i understanding right?

 

[Falcon67]

you're right!

so, if i understand, there are two posts on the back side of these breakers right? each post is connected to each of the two big *** wires at the top of the box and each wire is 110 volts right? to get 220 volts one would connect wires to the screws on the right side of the breakers and route those wires along with a ground wire to the garage where they would go to the recepticle. am i understanding right?

Technically that sounds right - not sure if "Ol' Sparky" on the wall there will let you get away with it. That's a Grade A mess, righty.

 

[sberry]

Is the house attatched to the garage?

 

[sberry]

If everything was in decent shape it wouldn't bother me to find a place to hook up a welder recept to this if I needed to. The load from a welding machine is so intermittent. I do agree the breaker panel is obsolete, finding anything for it would be a chore. If there was an unused double pole somewhere I would take advantage of it.

 

[JBurgess]

Is there a disconect by the meter or is this panel fed directly from the meter? I would only try to change a breaker if you can turn the power off to this panel.

This splice in the neutral to fuse panels doesn't look right in the photo. You should be sure it is spliced properly and not just twisted togather, not real clear in the photo.

If you need a breaker I have a used 40 and a used 50 amp 2 pole. I would send either for shipping. PM me if interested.