Hex Bit Socket - Stripped Hex Socket Cap

[hancock1701]

So today I was having a really hard time with the auto tensioner bolt on a 2007 Honda Civic. It was an 8mm hex socket cap screw that was very tight in there. It seems like the hex socket cap is not deep enough for the hex bit when that much force is required. I tried my best not to strip it by making sure it wasn't wobbling, and was pushing in on the hex bit while applying force.

But it appeared to be stripped regardless. The hex bit was still dead on straight onto the hex cap, but was spinning inside it .

I was wondering if a higher quality hex bit would've made a difference, even though my bit didn't do any it wasn't supposed to do.

I also wonder why Honda put a hex socket cap bolt in there instead of a normal hex head.

 

[T45]

hard to tell....bolts strip when the wrong size bit is used and/or too much play. they also strip from being too soft/low grade metal. lastly, they can strip from misalignment/improper technique... its hard to which which was at fault in this case. maybe someone familiar with the specific application can chime in. 8mm can be used in some pretty demanding applications, m10-12, and so 50NM and above, which might be 60 to 80 or something to take off, but they should be rated correctly to no self-destruct on removal if using OEM parts.

 

[Drew_flux]

If there is enough room. Put the hex in the bolt head, take a center punch and put punch marks on the outside of the hex flats. This will pust the bolt head into the hex. Alternatively grab a 8mm bolt and 2 nuts. Put the bolt head in the hex and turn the nuts to remove

 

[Jim Diesel]

If you have not yet removed it. Try using a rag over the socket and levering it in if you have no space, or hammer it in if you can. The rag takes up the now larger space. If to rounded try the same with a larger socket.

Or If its not counter sunk, twist socket over it or vise grips.

We suffer these stupid fastners daily. And prior to placing the socket in it, i grab a small punch to fit inside and give it a couple of solid blows, then try to remove it. Generaly find it will free it up.

 

[shockwave]

I have experienced this before when removing 8mm hex intake bolts which was stripped ended up hammering in a triple square bit to remove

They do offer spiral flutes removal sockets that might help

For this reason straight hex,torx or triple square if possible

 

[KnurledNut]

I have a set of these extractors specifically for stripped hex cap (allen head) screw/bolts.
Its basically a tapered hardened allen key that you hammer in and turn.

http://www.sockitout.com

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00065V4FE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[gdocktor3]

^ those are good to have. Will be ordering a set.

 

[signcrafter]

Astro also makes a set of stripped hex bolt sockets. I have them but haven't had to use them yet, thankfully. Only one review on amazon and not a good one but also doesn't give any details on why it didn't work so who knows. I take those reviews with a grain of salt since I don't know if the person writting even knows how to use the tool or not.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D9QASFO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[knobby]

On a couple of occasions these have saved me some grief and managed to loosen stripped hex cap screws http://www.titan-us.com/default.aspx?page=item detail&itemcode=12757

 

[Adam.C]

YES! I've had this exact experience. Cap head screws can pose real problems. Don't screw around with bargain bit sockets. Just get Snap On or Hazet. I don't think I would bother with VIM.

There are A LOT of cheap bastards, or broke *** people on GJ who make recommendations based on what they can or (less frequently) have gotten away with tool wise. Where are they now? Are they over your house with their craftsman or HF tools fixing that car for you?

You need top quality bit sockets because as a cap head screw wears (because some other cheap ******* used ill fitting cheap *** tools on it) you need the largest possible, sharpest, hardest tool. That's gold (cad plated) Snap On.

 

[derosa]

Sometimes taking a slightly larger torx bit and tapping it in will let you get enough grip to get the bolt out, just make sure to use a good quality one.

 

[Dave455]

Designers so often make things sooo much more difficult than they need to be!

I hate it when you get a relatively large fastener with a relatively small recess. With me it's usually a torx in a big countersunk screw, but the screws are always made of ****** soft material, always torqued too much, and usually corroded for a decade! And yes, the recess never seems to be deep enough!

As Adam said above, first thing is to get some decent bits. I know these inhex/ torx bits always seem to be mega money for what they are, but this is one area where you really see the difference in top end tools. Snap On, Hazet, yes, both good, but so are KoKen, and they're a little easier on the wallet!

I have some stuff for stopping screwdrivers slipping that I bought at a gun show years back. It has diamond particles suspended in a sort of oil. This stuff is awesome, so I try a squirt of that next!

If none of the above works then I do the one thing you can with a cheap bit - weld it into the screw and chuck both of 'em!

I come across this problem so often thst I have boxes of replacement screws in the popular sizes on hand! Most often the problem sems to be down to the poor quality fasteners used in the first place. When my replacements have come back, I've never had a problem removing them!

 

[Wes J]

I work with socket head cap screws constantly. Machine tools are almost completely put together with them. In general they are awesome. All socket head cap screws are at least as strong as a grade 8 bolt. Generally you will not have any trouble.

If it's really stuck, the best tool is the same tool I would recommend for any stuck fastener, a welder. Weld up the hex socket area first and leave a small ***. Then put a nut over the *** and weld the hole in the nut to the head of the cap screw. Pour some water on the weld while it's still hot. The heat will expand the bolt threads a bit. Rapid cooling will help jar the threads from the tapped hole.

If you have to drill it, it's not too bad. Socket cap screws are case hardened, so once you get through the hard layer, it should drill easily.

FYI, VIM makes hex bit sockets for lots of OEMs. Mac, Cornwell, Matco, etc are or were made by them.

 

[jrobb316]

You are probably screwed. I know exactly what bolt you're talking about. What I've done in the past is torch the head off and remove the tensioner. Then you will have a stud sticking out that will readily unscrew. That bolt is super tight to be using extractors, I doubt they'll work. Or grind the head off and use a left handed bit. This is lesson one on not buying cheap **** tools. That bolt cannot be got on straight without dropping the engine mount a bit also, which probably contributed.

 

[ajfeight]

New to the forum. I never planned on posting, but figured I would because I have been close to this situation. I have an 07 Civic with the 1.8l and had to replace the tensioner. The bolt wouldn't budge and I couldn't really get to it. Finally got it out by pulling the passenger motor mount so I could lower the tensioner below the frame rail and used a 3ft cheater bar on a 1/2 Craftsman ratchet (hex socket was Craftsman, too). Not sure what to recommend if it's still in there, but glad it didn't end this way for me.

Also, if you haven't fixed it yet, just buy a new motor mount for the civic. Seems like these mounts go out every 30k miles. The factory one on my car lasted 37k miles...

 

[Olafur]

A good quality twist(er) socket removes regular hex cap bolt without any problem. Last week I broke several 12.9 bolts using Koken twister socket.

 

[LXCam]

Astro also makes a set of stripped hex bolt sockets. I have them but haven't had to use them yet, thankfully. Only one review on amazon and not a good one but also doesn't give any details on why it didn't work so who knows. I take those reviews with a grain of salt since I don't know if the person writting even knows how to use the tool or not.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D9QASFO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

These units are great, they have saved my *** a couple times. But the trick is to seat them properly. Make sure the rotating tip is aligned with the shank, then tap them as flat as possible into the head. Make certain you keep them square to the head as you turn and they work.

 

[Adam.C]

I have some stuff for stopping screwdrivers slipping that I bought at a gun show years back. It has diamond particles suspended in a sort of oil. This stuff is awesome, so I try a squirt of that next!

You can try powdered cleanser (Ajax in the US). Same deal. Spackle the recess with it and hope it fills in the gaps.

 

[hancock1701]

Wow, thanks to all of you for the great tips and suggested tools! It sounds like I probably should've tried to free the torque on it a little before trying to remove it. But as many suggested, quality tools might have helped so that this wouldn't happen.

You are probably screwed. I know exactly what bolt you're talking about. What I've done in the past is torch the head off and remove the tensioner. Then you will have a stud sticking out that will readily unscrew. That bolt is super tight to be using extractors, I doubt they'll work. Or grind the head off and use a left handed bit. This is lesson one on not buying cheap **** tools. That bolt cannot be got on straight without dropping the engine mount a bit also, which probably contributed.

New to the forum. I never planned on posting, but figured I would because I have been close to this situation. I have an 07 Civic with the 1.8l and had to replace the tensioner. The bolt wouldn't budge and I couldn't really get to it. Finally got it out by pulling the passenger motor mount so I could lower the tensioner below the frame rail and used a 3ft cheater bar on a 1/2 Craftsman ratchet (hex socket was Craftsman, too). Not sure what to recommend if it's still in there, but glad it didn't end this way for me.

Also, if you haven't fixed it yet, just buy a new motor mount for the civic. Seems like these mounts go out every 30k miles. The factory one on my car lasted 37k miles...

That's what I did. I dropped the engine a little and used extensions from the wheel well to make sure I got on the screw straight, with a 2 ft breaker bar, but still didn't work .

And yes, the motor mount was completed separated at 112k miles.

 

[knobby]

You can try powdered cleanser (Ajax in the US). Same deal. Spackle the recess with it and hope it fills in the gaps.

The "old timer" trick is valve lapping compound.

 

[dutchgray]

I work with socket head cap screws constantly. Machine tools are almost completely put together with them. In general they are awesome. All socket head cap screws are at least as strong as a grade 8 bolt. Generally you will not have any trouble.

They are fine in machine tools, which don't generally operate outside in the wet where they get coated in dirt, road salt etc like cars do. You can have enough problems getting normal hex head bolts out in cars but when the same size has in hex drive about half the size its much harder.

 

[Wes J]

I wonder why they used a socket head cap screw. It's true you rarely see them in automotive applications.

Either way, I could have that out in a jiffy with even the crappiest of welders. If you don't have a welder, I don't know what to tell you (other than buy a welder).

 

[MBfreak]

Hi.
My $0,02s worth.
I used to work quite a lot on MB V8s from the eighties. The heads were aluminum and brackets etc that were sitting on the heads used galvanized class 8 ( medium strength) M8 hex socket fasteners. Aluminum, galvanized screws, heat, water, a perfect combo to get screws to really seize.
Even the best fitting hexbits sometimes stripped out the head. I had good luck hammering in the next size TORX bit or even better XZN ( 12 flutes) bit to get the stubborn part out. Guess that the hammering in of the bit also helped.

On occasion it did not work, the screw would break just below the head. Grind flat, centerpunch and drill out with left hand drill bits. Started with a 3 mm and then soaked the offender with acetone/ATF mix. Then 6,5 mm , scratch out the remaining thread and retap.

All because some Fritz decided not to use antiseize on the bolts when building the engine.

Ola