HF blantantly copying Snap on look

[dogdog]

Seppuku is Japanese; the Chinese think they are crazy

LOL
Only crazy people think crazy things. Real crazy people do crazy things.

 

[oldtools]

The color scheme argument is interesting.

Red and black is used by AutoZone, Wurth, HF, Milwaukee and Snappy among a dozen others. I can't imagine any one of those was the first in history to use it either.

What would it take to legally protect a color combo in a global market?

Fluke trademarked the color yellow for their multimeter holster. They sue anybody in the US that use yellow holster claiming people cannot differentiate between their $300 DMM and other $20 DMM. Apple use the same argument for their rectangular with round corner.

 

[BuffettFan]

I'm torn between buying good tools vs cheap tools for my school shop due to the "evaporation" factor.
Tools are allowed to be checked out, and the students do a pretty good job of returning them, but a lot of faculty and staff also have access to the shop 24/7, so I have to replace a few tools throughout the year. Not a lot, but still...
Not the point of this post, but I said that to qualify this:

I recently bought a couple sets of the HF screw drivers in question.
The H/T on the tips is all over the place. Some of the tips are so brittle, they snap with the least bit of torque, while others are so soft, they twist around like they're made out of bubble gum.

So, what mfg has Snap On quality at a HF price point?? LOL

 

[HanShotFirst]

I'm torn between buying good tools vs cheap tools for my school shop due to the "evaporation" factor.
Tools are allowed to be checked out, and the students do a pretty good job of returning them, but a lot of faculty and staff also have access to the shop 24/7, so I have to replace a few tools throughout the year. Not a lot, but still...
Not the point of this post, but I said that to qualify this:

I recently bought a couple sets of the HF screw drivers in question.
The H/T on the tips is all over the place. Some of the tips are so brittle, they snap with the least bit of torque, while others are so soft, they twist around like they're made out of bubble gum.

So, what mfg has Snap On quality at a HF price point?? LOL

For "cheap but good" tools, I personally think HF's sockets and ratchets are the ****...could say about the same for Tekton. The sockets are well broached, chrome is very good, and they're pretty tough. Ratchets are way better than they have any right to be for the price. I absolutely love the composite ratchets.

I have a 20+ year old set of HF screwdrivers and they're decent; usable. Don't know about the new ones though.

For wrenches, I think Gearwrench is tough to beat for "cheap but good".

I wouldn't be buying US made tools for a job where I know some of the tools would be growing legs and walking off.

 

[BuffettFan]

Thanks for the input.
I have to admit, as long as I have been buying tools, over 40 years, I hadn't heard of Gearwrench before joining this forum. I'll definitely check them out.
Thanks again and only 4 hours till the weekend!!!

 

[shawndp]

@BuffettFan - you might have a look at the Carlyle screwdrivers - not insanely cheap, but they seem to be holding up to commercial use quite well for our shop. The grips are substantial - not as good as the Instinct (but what is) and the shafts can take a beating. Also, they have the bolster like SO does s you can wrench on them.

 

[blackgold]

Who does this dude think he is that anyone would give a **** whether or not he's going to shop at HF again? You're not the Warren Buffett of tools.

Brian

 

[BuffettFan]

Not sure if that blackgold's comment was directed at me, but if so, I was qualifying my comment to explain why I didn't want to spend a lot of money on tools that I know have a good chance of disappearing before they wear out.

In my toolbox, you'll find a couple sets of Mac screwdrivers that I've had and used long enough that the engraving has worn off the handles, but ALL the tips are still perfect. Next drawer down, you'd find a mix of at least 10 other mfg's screwdrivers, I'm sure there are some HF ones in there as well.

Shawndp:
Thanks for the recommendations on the Carlyle !

 

[HanShotFirst]

Good screwdrives on the sort-of-cheap; Tekton. They are nice screwdrivers, and they're made in the US.
https://www.tekton.com/screwdrivers?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Oy1idS51gIVxLjACh1wdgiUEAAYASAAEgKY6fD_BwE

 

[Mikeske]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...-on-patents-for-battery-packs/article/2175002

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/29/business/fi-rup29.10

Snap-on is not pure as snow on copying and using others patents and it has been in history that the various tool companies copy each other. I can not find it but I thought that Snap-on was sued back years ago by Utica tools for copying their idea on wrenches.

As far as Harbor Freight copying the Snap on look, REALLY get a life as the Harbor Freight is not going for the professional and is going for the home owner weekend warrior.

 

[stillsteamn]

I'm a weekend garage person, and not even every weekend. I occasionally randomly see a tool truck go by somewhere. But honestly I don't even know how to go about buying tools from a tool truck. Am I supposed to run out in front of one to get him to stop? That's why you'll see me at HF, or Sears if there is still one around.

 

[MikeF2316]

I'm a weekend garage person, and not even every weekend. I occasionally randomly see a tool truck go by somewhere. But honestly I don't even know how to go about buying tools from a tool truck. Am I supposed to run out in front of one to get him to stop? That's why you'll see me at HF, or Sears if there is still one around.

No you follow him to his next stop. Then explain who you are and what your plans are in case he noticed you following him.

 

[Codejack]

I'm a weekend garage person, and not even every weekend. I occasionally randomly see a tool truck go by somewhere. But honestly I don't even know how to go about buying tools from a tool truck. Am I supposed to run out in front of one to get him to stop? That's why you'll see me at HF, or Sears if there is still one around.

Ask a local shop what day of the week he drops by, and if they would mind if you came by to talk to him

 

[PeterT]

I stay out of that place, don't buy chinese junk and I don't like the smell of that chinese rubber that lingers on your clothing

 

[Snakebyt]

went by today, they were out of the screwdrivers, but they did have the 3/8 pro 72 tooth extra long flex head rachet so i picked it up, it is quite long, longer than expected, but for me, i prefer the extra length

 

[jeejay]

So I'd seen the HF ratchets first, but when I saw identical looking SO ratchets, I thought Harbor Freight must have copied those (now who would think the opposite, that's the question). Then again, I was also surprised that Snap-on made plastic handled ratchets, so I thought they'd likewise copied this trend in general, possibly to be more trendy. Although, if I were to buy a Snap-on, it wouldn't have a plastic handle, so yeah (I didn't get those Harbor Freight ones either). All the cheapest ratchets seem to have metal handles, so I'm good with that (and got some higher end metal ones too, because I prefer those types, knock-offs or not). It is somewhat silly to discuss the look of a plastic handle, regardless, you're talking tool steel vs "tool plastic" (and it's kind of a Chinese look you know, or that used to mean it was cheap—when mostly toys were made of this).

Anyway, I think they should make plastic tool carts too, that don't cost more than all my tools put together (which I cannot get any more of, or I'll need a tool cart)! Those things are said to weigh as much as a dumpster, and they're always having a tool disposal sale (no wonder). Except I know the plastic ones would either smell funny, or cost just as much (right, I recycled about half of my tool cases from any store, because they stunk, but the tools are metal, so that was some elaborate packaging for no apparent reason—well if you get a smelly milk jug from the supermarket, maybe that's what it used to be). I won't order another plastic or rubber handled anything, because flip a coin if it smells or not. In the past, I wouldn't have imagined there would be cheap and cheaper rubber or plastic, but somehow they've literally made it stink (as if I'd care what color it was at that point). So be it, most of my el cheapos were acquired to try out the concept, and I didn't have a certain number of tools in mind for a modest collection, which I'd now define as one that doesn't require a heavy duty cart to organize (or deodorize).

 

[EddyP]

I made my first trip into HF today, we're over here on holiday. I don't get what the fuss is about, their screwdrivers and ratchets are no where near SO quality, you can tell straight away with the screwdrivers that they're cheap and that's before evening holding one.
The ratchets look OK until you feel the play on them or how loose the flex head is.

They did have some great stuff though, to the point I might be st my baggage allowance already! Doh!

 

[Codejack]

I made my first trip into HF today, we're over here on holiday. I don't get what the fuss is about, their screwdrivers and ratchets are no where near SO quality, you can tell straight away with the screwdrivers that they're cheap and that's before evening holding one.
The ratchets look OK until you feel the play on them or how loose the flex head is.

They did have some great stuff though, to the point I might be st my baggage allowance already! Doh!

Their screwdrivers range from terrible to OK.

The ratchets are VERY nice, and the flex heads can be tightened.

Everything else varies wildly.

Basically, look at the online reviews and follow the online star rating system:

 

[yamaha0343]

HF blatantly copying

yep

I probably will not go back again, too many other imported tool manufactures to choose.

Agree. The stores, the marketing, and the copying all feel cheap. And not a good cheap. If I need something low cost, I'll go for Tekton on Amazon. For hand tools, I am trying to stick to the industrial brands like Williams, Wright, and SK. And for power tools, does anyone really buy power tools there? I don't own any Snap On besides my box.

 

[bcradio]

That's what she said.

 

[jeejay]

I don't get what the fuss is about...

So this isn't the British humour?

Whatever it is, they say it "BEATS Snap-on", and "WOW!"

They'll even put fake yellow tags on things, that will say new lower price, but it really isn't. So they've faked the look of their own gimmicks for that matter (and don't want people to use a coupon on those).

Compared to Sears though, I was in each store on the holiday, and approximately nobody was in the tool department of Sears (even though some higher quality tools were 50% off), while Harbor Freight had lines going to the back of the store all day long (for that 25% coupon). Guess the old Sears catalog didn't do the trick, because it was discontinued (maybe they're more like Snap-on now, going by word of mouth or just the website, but no tool truck either). Besides, I wouldn't say I've favored any of numerous stores in the past (amounting to as much window shopping), and didn't go for much of anything that day, because the notion of a tool cart is a bit excessive for my purposes, like I said (and I'm not looking to build a big garage either, especially over a "disposal notice" ).

 

[EddyP]

So this isn't the British humour?

Whatever it is, they say it "BEATS Snap-on", and "WOW!"

They'll even put fake yellow tags on things, that will say new lower price, but it really isn't. So they've faked the look of their own gimmicks for that matter (and don't want people to use a coupon on those).

Compared to Sears though, I was in each store on the holiday, and approximately nobody was in the tool department of Sears (even though some higher quality tools were 50% off), while Harbor Freight had lines going to the back of the store all day long (for that 25% coupon). Guess the old Sears catalog didn't do the trick, because it was discontinued (maybe they're more like Snap-on now, going by word of mouth or just the website, but no tool truck either). Besides, I wouldn't say I've favored any of numerous stores in the past (amounting to as much window shopping), and didn't go for much of anything that day, because the notion of a tool cart is a bit excessive for my purposes, like I said (and I'm not looking to build a big garage either, especially over a "disposal notice" ).

I hadn't seen them doing that, just looked at the flyer I picked and its full of comparisons to other brands, in the UK that's illegal, they can say a competitor but they can't name a brand. It's pretty cheeky.

As for the actual products some I thought were really good, some were junk. Really impressed by the price of some of their F clamps, real bargain compared to UK pricing, unfortunately too heavy to take back though. You guys are really lucky, they keep stuff that you just don't get in the UK.
Need to find out if their digital torque gauge and angle finder are any good before I go back.

 

[Codejack]

Compared to Sears though, I was in each store on the holiday, and approximately nobody was in the tool department of Sears (even though some higher quality tools were 50% off), while Harbor Freight had lines going to the back of the store all day long (for that 25% coupon).

Maybe something to do with the fact that 50% off a Craftsman tool is still more expensive than full price Pittsburgh Pro, and you have no more guarantee of quality; quite the opposite, in fact. I've broken more Craftsman than I have HF, and I've bought more HF (and at this point, it's been used as much).

Guess the old Sears catalog didn't do the trick, because it was discontinued (maybe they're more like Snap-on now, going by word of mouth or just the website, but no tool truck either).

The Sears Catalog should have been the basis for an Amazon-like online shopping system; instead, they retired it just as the Internet came out, and have been making nothing but more mistakes since then.

This is what happens to dinosaurs when the asteroid hits.

 

[ddawg16]

Or......maybe, just maybe.....HF makes the SO ratchets as well?

(I really doubt it...but it's fun to poke at the SO guys)

 

[Todd.Brock]

Snap on ratchets have been made over seas for years. All mine say Macau. Just like my old hot wheels

 

[dogdog]

...
Need to find out if their digital torque gauge and angle finder are any good before I go back.

digital torque gauge is sort of junk or hard to use.... but then I find most of the other digital torque wrench are the same.... at least a big learning curve for me....

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-68283.html


The digital angle finder is actually pretty good for some uses.... but mine drains battery like crazy after it sits for a while and requires 3x of cr2032 it's reference to the tilt sensor.. not exactly reference the angle between A and B like the saw blade example they have... say my table saw is on a slant 10deg, I set the blade to 35deg, that thing would read 45deg... I have to double check that....it just sits there as novelty item now....

https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-angle-gauge-95998.html


I don't find any professional use for either so far.... maybe I am just not a professional ..

 

[shawndp]

Snap on ratchets have been made over seas for years. All mine say Macau. Just like my old hot wheels

Hasn't this myth been dispelled on a few occasions? Do they say "Macau" as in COO or someone named them so. Is Macau a suburb of Kenosha?

 

[EddyP]

digital torque gauge is sort of junk or hard to use.... but then I find most of the other digital torque wrench are the same.... at least a big learning curve for me....

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-68283.html


The digital angle finder is actually pretty good for some uses.... but mine drains battery like crazy after it sits for a while and requires 3x of cr2032 it's reference to the tilt sensor.. not exactly reference the angle between A and B like the saw blade example they have... say my table saw is on a slant 10deg, I set the blade to 35deg, that thing would read 45deg... I have to double check that....it just sits there as novelty item now....

https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-angle-gauge-95998.html


I don't find any professional use for either so far.... maybe I am just not a professional ..

Thanks for the info, won't waste any money of those then.

 

[Mr_B]

I hadn't seen them doing that, just looked at the flyer I picked and its full of comparisons to other brands, in the UK that's illegal, they can say a competitor but they can't name a brand. It's pretty cheeky.

As for the actual products some I thought were really good, some were junk. Really impressed by the price of some of their F clamps, real bargain compared to UK pricing, unfortunately too heavy to take back though. You guys are really lucky, they keep stuff that you just don't get in the UK.
Need to find out if their digital torque gauge and angle finder are any good before I go back.

Look at the sealey one (UK), good wrench with angular function LED and tone etc . good price if shop about (STW306 1/2" )

 

[EddyP]

Look at the sealey one (UK), good wrench with angular function LED and tone etc . good price if shop about (STW306 1/2" )

Thanks Mr B.

We should get them to start a UK section on here

 

[Mr_B]

^ Have fun on your hol, worth looking in Napa at the carlyle stuff, some promo's till end of month . To be fair the HF Pitts Pro flexi ratchets are pretty good (test and select good one) for under $20 with easy lifetime warranty, they like £15 or less with vouchers they always have. Take it home and strip it for quick QC/clean & greasing and loctite on swivel bolt and tighten well and they perform really nicely .
Advertising at HF makes me cringe though :-/

 

[EddyP]

Thanks, Already planning to pickup a Carlye one, not sure I'll visit another HF this trip, plus already got some Facom swirl ratchets that are lovely. Might be tempted by a gear wrench 120p though.
Where can I find one of the HF vouchers? I spent a fair bit the other day without a voucher, doh!

Think someone here should convince someone like tool station to carry the same gear as HF, the range of stuff they have is brilliant, just shows how limited places like Machine Mart are.

 

[Codejack]

Where can I find one of the HF vouchers? I spent a fair bit the other day without a voucher, doh!

http://www.hfqpdb.com/

You can just read the coupon number off of your phone for them, I do it all the time.

 

[Sasquatch912]

Snap On screw driver $200

HF screw driver $5

 

[Mr_B]

Got a section on this site just for vouchers, also can find them on HF site and print them out or do from mobile. I prefer the gearwrench 84T, whatever buy try get the earlier taiwan GW stuff as seems a touch better over the current china made versions .
Lol machine mart is like a town hardware store in comparison, no idea why UK so limited or why likes of machine mart not increased range over the years .

 

[Fedwrench]

Hey, I think Snap on is trying to emulate Harbor Freight, Their new PT850 impact wrench has so much plastic on it, it feels like a Harbor Freight model. It's friggin loud too.

On a side note, anyone that that thinks they're getting a snap on quality tool from Harbor Freight is sadly mistaken.

Lastly, i can't believe this thread has so many posts in it

Move along, there's nothing to see here.....

 

[jeejay]

Maybe something to do with the fact that 50% off a Craftsman tool is still more expensive than full price Pittsburgh Pro, and you have no more guarantee of quality; quite the opposite, in fact. I've broken more Craftsman than I have HF, and I've bought more HF (and at this point, it's been used as much).

I was looking at a Gearwrench set in Sears too, just because it was there, but that was like an invitation to hunt for the missing sizes, which would add up to about 125% more to buy individually (or 5-10 times extra per piece, in other words). This "set" was 50% more at another store though, so it was on sale there, a blowout. Wow, didn't the Gearwrench get blatantly copied too? There was a Craftsman set right next to it. I thought I'd be better off waiting to get an individual size to solve a problem that might never come up though. Yeah, not to complain, at least there is such an option, unlike off-brands that don't make individual sizes available (they only copy the incomplete set part). I think this qualifies the Harbor Freight tools as off-brands also. It's ludicrous for them to compare themselves (except on a level of scheming).

I hadn't seen them doing that, just looked at the flyer I picked and its full of comparisons to other brands, in the UK that's illegal, they can say a competitor but they can't name a brand. It's pretty cheeky.

I think it was illegal here, when advertisements used to refer to the "leading brand" or brands. Not lately though. They even call politics a brand now, so there you go (ever since they haven't been flattering themselves, I'd guess, nothing but 'disposal notices' there too).

 

[SamHandyman]

i buy whatever works... electronic stuff I'd buy brand name like Dewalt or Milwaukee. Hand tools are so simple that HF/Princess Auto would do just fine for me. Buying a $100 snap-on vs $20 HF hand tool that does the same thing and using it once every couple months just doesn't make sense. If you're a full time mechanic then it's a different story. At the end of the day, as long as you got your work done then it's all good. You get what you pay for I don't deny.. for example the oil filter from ChannelLock costs double the price as the same one from HF. You can clearly tell how better the fit/finish/detail on the Made in US ChannelLock is much better but they work the same. I would definitely go for the cheap one that I use twice a year and I got life warranty on it too.

Not sure why all the hype on snap-on maybe they used to be like god, just picked up a snap-on work light from a department store on sale and it's just a rebranded version you can see under few other brands and it's made in China.

Anyways some people just deny HF just because it's made in china and it's too cheap...you can only bash a product of you have personal experience with it. Some of their tools are good value.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr_B]

^ +1
Some is superb value and some superb way blow some dollar, main thing is buying the good options and taking time see/find/wait for deals .

 

[Fedwrench]

Not sure why all the hype on snap-on maybe they used to be like god, just picked up a snap-on work light from a department store on sale and it's just a rebranded version you can see under few other brands and it's made in China.

Snap on prostituted its brand name to Alltrade several years ago. That's why you see everything from pocket knives & multitools, to wet dry vacs & pressure washers, and flashlights to work lights being sold everywhere but, on a snap on tuck. The items aren't snap on made. It's largely chinese made **** to expand name recognition