HF ****** fluid Exchanger for $399,any good?

[CarCrafter]

The only problem I've personally noticed with flushes (fluid exchanges) is that many of the guys doing it are too lazy to verify the proper fluid level after the service and top off as needed. Some of them will just argue that the machine "theoretically" replenishes the same amount of fluid it removed, never taking into consideration of the fluid loss when the lines are disconnected/ connected. Take a look at a late model Honda/ Acura and you'll see how small the dipstick hole is. It takes forever to fill a transmission that way, of course there is a fill plug that can be unscrewed, but who cares???

Other than that, I've NEVER seen a problem in an automatic trans that failed because of a fluid exchange. If it fails after a service, it was on borrowed time before the machine was ever hooked up. Gotta love those I knew a guy experts. It seems none of us former Ford techs buy this line of ****.

 

[CarCrafter]

http://www.harborfreight.com/transmission-fluid-exchanger-93019.html

This is on sale for $399,$320 with 20% off coupon, Does anyone have any experiences with it? It looks good, the price is great,should pay for itself in 4-5 uses.

I've never seen this machine in person or ever used it, but $320 isn't a bad deal. Although you may get lucky and find a better professional unit on ebay from time to time.

 

[regguy1]

Here's one I did that failed....it wasn't flushed

 

[regguy1]

.are you saying the flush machine put the trash into the trans? i'll bet the trash was there from a lack of mainainance over the life of the vehicle. if a filter is plugged up it's from friction material......if it has enough friction material in the filter to plug it up it's toast.
a plugged up trans filter caused a power loss?


time to get real here guy's. see why i don't come around much

The Clown is a Smart Cookie:

More from previous thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bad Jon
At our shop we do not drop pans on ****** flushes. They "claim" that the magic stuff in the chemicals we use to service "cleans" the filter. I personally think that is ****, but since they are signing my paycheck I do what I am told. On my personal vehicles I just drop the pan and change the filter at home. As long as you do this when you the manufacturer says you should, you will be fine for a long time. If you pull heavy trailers you should do this more often. Just my 2 cents flame away if necessary.
I agree: The majic chemical talk is smoke being blown up you know where.

The real answer is yes and no about removing the pan.

On units that use a screen as the filter you really don't need to change it, and if you have symptoms or think it's restricted, more than likely you're developing more serious problems.

Many units use a filter with a dacron element, these should be changed periodically and the fluid exchange won't get you there.

Bottom line you need a knowledgeable person to advise for specific type of transmission.

Some pans should be removed and new filter installed and others are fine with just the fluid exchange.

Lets face it, the fluid exchange is a service that can be done quickly and doesn't require a high skilled employee so many places limit it to that.
When you get into removing the pan and changing filter etc. you have more time and liability so many places invent stories about majic potion additives and take the quick money and avoid possible headaches.

New Update:
Here's a Filter in a Honde Civic BMXA Transaxle...guess what it's plugged up with, friction material from clutch failure. Will a new filter alone correct the failed internal components?....NO

 

[atari]

OK, here is another side of the story. I have a 2000 mustang GT that at 50k miles the tork converter started to chatter on lock up. A buddy of mine is a ford tech and I asked him about it. I said we should try to flush it and see what happens. I figured at this point I'm gonna run it till the trans totally takes a dump so what do I have to lose. That was 60k miles ago and I have not had a problem. I did however install a huge B&M trans cooler the same day I put the new fluid. I say that if your trans is slipping already you are screwed, If you want to try it go for it. It might work out. The problem is when you put 150K on the OE trans fluid ant then you flush it all you do is stir up **** that ends up in the valve body. Its not the machines fault its the car owner for not having service done on schedule and its the tech/service writers fault for up selling **** people don't need. If a customer asks for it then OK, if your trying to add 150 bucks to a ticket and the car has 150k on it, its not the machines fault. Its like guns, just another tool that people use improperly. ........OK, im done.

 

[regguy1]

OK, here is another side of the story. I have a 2000 mustang GT that at 50k miles the tork converter started to chatter on lock up. A buddy of mine is a ford tech and I asked him about it. I said we should try to flush it and see what happens. I figured at this point I'm gonna run it till the trans totally takes a dump so what do I have to lose. That was 60k miles ago and I have not had a problem. I did however install a huge B&M trans cooler the same day I put the new fluid. I say that if your trans is slipping already you are screwed, If you want to try it go for it. It might work out. The problem is when you put 150K on the OE trans fluid ant then you flush it all you do is stir up **** that ends up in the valve body. Its not the machines fault its the car owner for not having service done on schedule and its the tech/service writers fault for up selling **** people don't need. If a customer asks for it then OK, if your trying to add 150 bucks to a ticket and the car has 150k on it, its not the machines fault. Its like guns, just another tool that people use improperly. ........OK, im done.

You're right:
A trans service will almost always correct the TCC chatter in the 4R70W style trans that's in your Mustang. It's one of the few symptoms that I can say that about. When you remove the pan on one of them they should be clean: no friction material or ground metal, they don't generate "****" unless something has begun to fail.

 

[MrMark]

I like it when Krusty the Clown posts.

Now, what is the consensus on exchanging fluid on a car that has not been maintained with respect to fluid changing. Let's say 100K miles on original fluid. No problems noted. Change the fluid or leave it be?

It seems the consensus would be to change it. Just want to confirm with the trans guys.

 

[regguy1]

I like it when Krusty the Clown posts.

Now, what is the consensus on exchanging fluid on a car that has not been maintained with respect to fluid changing. Let's say 100K miles on original fluid. No problems noted. Change the fluid or leave it be?

It seems the consensus would be to change it. Just want to confirm with the trans guys.

What make and model do you have?

 

[MrMark]

This is for my friend's 2002 CLK320 with 5 speed auto. Thanks for helping.

 

[regguy1]

This is for my friend's 2002 CLK320 with 5 speed auto. Thanks for helping.

That one will have a filter with a dacron element and it wouldn't be a bad idea to change it. I'm not sure if they've eliminated it in that year but that type trans might have a converter drain plug, they were a flat plug with allen head. I'll check a bit further and post later or tomorrow.

 

[MrMark]

That one will have a filter with a dacron element and it wouldn't be a bad idea to change it. I'm not sure if they've eliminated it in that year but that type trans might have a converter drain plug, they were a flat plug with allen head. I'll check a bit further and post later or tomorrow.

I remember asking about this once about how are you going to drain the converter on my car (similar) and the dealer said it had a drain plug. I believe the dealer would drop the pan and drain the pan and the converter. My question would be is this enough? Or, should you hook the trans to a replacement machine first, do a fluid replacement, and then drop the pan and change the filter afterward. I wonder what MB dealers do on this?

Thank you for checking.

 

[regguy1]

I remember asking about this once about how are you going to drain the converter on my car (similar) and the dealer said it had a drain plug. I believe the dealer would drop the pan and drain the pan and the converter. My question would be is this enough? Or, should you hook the trans to a replacement machine first, do a fluid replacement, and then drop the pan and change the filter afterward. I wonder what MB dealers do on this?

Thank you for checking.

With the converter drain plug that's all you need, you'll have a complete change. be careful who you let do this.

 

[krusty the clown]

i'm not sure about the MB's but most domestic mfr's have stopped putting drain plugs in TC's. if you can drain the convertor you still only replace 2/3 of the fluid.

 

[MrMark]

With the converter drain plug that's all you need, you'll have a complete change. be careful who you let do this.

Are there some special concerns here? I tend to do everything myself except messy stuff like this where you really need a lift to do it reasonably. I know there are some fluid issues with the MB specs which are somewhat hard to figure out.

 

[jkherd]

exchanging fluid with a flush machine will not damage a transmission.......PERIOD.
if the transmission fails after a flush it already had the damage done.......PERIOD.

dropping the pan will only replace 1/3 of the damaged fluid............

i do not recommend using the cleaner though, just replace the fluid with new.

Krusty is right, if the transmission is a high mileage one and has never been properly service before it will generally screw up if a flush is done. In my experience over the years if the preventive maintenance has been done properly it should not be any problem.

 

[MrMark]

Krusty is right, if the transmission is a high mileage one and has never been properly service before it will generally screw up if a flush is done. In my experience over the years if the preventive maintenance has been done properly it should not be any problem.

I'm not sure Krusty believes that. Krusty?

 

[wafrederick]

Flush machines use more fluid too.The F150 I mentioned was maintained very well.Some don't know how to check the automatics without dipsticks.Malibu transmissions are this way and go out because no one checks the fluid level.Using a 7/16 or 11mm socket,remove a plug right by the passenger side axle on the case and do this running.If the fluid runs out,it is full and reinstall the plug.The transmissions in the Chrysler 300s,Dodge Chargers and Magnums require a special dipstick made by Miller tool including a scan tool to check the fluid level.Fluid level goes by tempature of the fluid by a chart.

 

[MrMark]

I just realized that my the MB has no dipstick! How to change fluid with no dipstick? This may be why I have seen MB dipsticks sold by the parts houses.

 

[krusty the clown]

I'm not sure Krusty believes that. Krusty?

yes and no.......IF the vehicle is high mileage with no PM done it MAY and i'll repeat MAY cause some sludge to loosen up and that MAY get into the valve body but ONLY if the filter doesn't catch it. i personally have NEVER seen a transmission fail due to a fluid exchange. even 30 years ago this myth was wide spread that if you service a transmission it will fail, and that was when all services were done by dropping the pan. the second statment i'll agree with 100%.

 

[MrMark]

So, Krusty, if you are the service advisor and you see a high mile vehicle (say 100K) come in with no prior trans services, what do you advise?

Is there a greater benefit to doing the fluid replacement on the old trans (like you may get much longer service from it with the new fluid vs. doing nothing) than the small risk of contamination breaking loose that gets by the filter? Does the benefit outweigh the small risk here is what I am asking? To outweigh the small but grave risk the benefit would have to be fairly high for me. What say you?

 

[krusty the clown]

So, Krusty, if you are the service advisor and you see a high mile vehicle (say 100K) come in with no prior trans services, what do you advise?

Is there a greater benefit to doing the fluid replacement on the old trans (like you may get much longer service from it with the new fluid vs. doing nothing) than the small risk of contamination breaking loose that gets by the filter? Does the benefit outweigh the small risk here is what I am asking? To outweigh the small but grave risk the benefit would have to be fairly high for me. What say you?

seeing as this is all hypothetical........IF i were a service advisor i would explain the risks and let the customer decide for him/herself. if it's really bad, either way it's a short timer.

if it was my vehicle i would do a fluid exchange WITHOUT using the chemical flush additive. and i may or may not drop the pan and change the filter.

since i can't see the condition of the fluid or smell it i really can't give you a perfect answer as to risk/benefit.

 

[MrMark]

Very reasonable. Krusty, what do you like to see for fluid change service interval on transmisions like MB? The MB owners manual does not specify changes, at least not before 100K. I feel like 50-60K is the right number for trans in general based on my reading and experience. Do you agree?

 

[krusty the clown]

Very reasonable. Krusty, what do you like to see for fluid change service interval on transmisions like MB? The MB owners manual does not specify changes, at least not before 100K. I feel like 50-60K is the right number for trans in general based on my reading and experience. Do you agree?

i still go with the 30k that most manufacturers recomend. an overdrive transmission creates more heat than a 3speed and it's heat that degrades the fluid. your torque convertor clutch will thank you for it.

 

[blarf]

i still go with the 30k that most manufacturers recomend. an overdrive transmission creates more heat than a 3speed and it's heat that degrades the fluid. your torque convertor clutch will thank you for it.

Sure, but most modern transmissions have lockup torque converters which should reduce the fluid temperature, no?

 

[krusty the clown]

Sure, but most modern transmissions have lockup torque converters which should reduce the fluid temperature, no?

not necessarily. it does create heat when the clutch locks and unlocks. they do prevent torque loss through the convertor but that is a gain in fuel economy but it really doesn't reduce heat.

 

[regguy1]

not necessarily. it does create heat when the clutch locks and unlocks. they do prevent torque loss through the convertor but that is a gain in fuel economy but it really doesn't reduce heat.

Let's have a friendly disagreement on the heat thing. I think any heat generated by TCC apply is minimal. When in lockup mode the TC has no hydraulic 'slippage' IE turbine going 2-300 rpm slower than the converter body, that will not create heat as would a non lockup unit.

Here's an extreme example from my personal experience:
I've had many older non TCC units come in that had a failure of the one way clutch in the converter so the stator isn't being held....when that happens you can't spin the tires on gravel, the car is a sled until you reach 15 mph. It has no torque multiplication when the stator is not being held . Anyway point is when I remove a unit with that failure...the thing usually got so hot it has turned blue (the converter). Hydraulic slippage will cause heat, and I think a lockup converter will minimize heat buildup.

 

[krusty the clown]

Let's have a friendly disagreement on the heat thing. I think any heat generated by TCC apply is minimal. When in lockup mode the TC has no hydraulic 'slippage' IE turbine going 2-300 rpm slower than the converter body, that will not create heat as would a non lockup unit.

Here's an extreme example from my personal experience:
I've had many older non TCC units come in that had a failure of the one way clutch in the converter so the stator isn't being held....when that happens you can't spin the tires on gravel, the car is a sled until you reach 15 mph. It has no torque multiplication when the stator is not being held . Anyway point is when I remove a unit with that failure...the thing usually got so hot it has turned blue (the converter). Hydraulic slippage will cause heat, and I think a lockup converter will minimize heat buildup.

perhaps......i guess i was refering to city driving where the convertor is locking and unlocking due to stop and go traffic. in any case a modern overdrive trans with a lockup convertor will run hotter than on old 3 speed non-locking trans and that is the main thing to remember for service intervals

 

[regguy1]

perhaps......i guess i was refering to city driving where the convertor is locking and unlocking due to stop and go traffic. in any case a modern overdrive trans with a lockup convertor will run hotter than on old 3 speed non-locking trans and that is the main thing to remember for service intervals

Good Point......

 

[wafrederick]

Anyone know what fluid a VW automatic uses?No one will get inside a VW automatic transmission which are a huge POS.The transmission in the Chrysler 300s,Dodge Charger and Magnum is a MB transmission and pretty much bulletproof.1994 and down Dodge truck transmissions have one differance in torque converters,318 and 360 are differant in one way.318 torque conveters do have a counter weight and the 360 torque conveterter does not.Ford electronic transmissions are horrible to work and diagnose problems with and I am glad I have seen why.This same transmission shop hates them with a deep passion and beat their heads against the wall when working on one.