HF going after pro-tools now with ICON line.

[DFB]

Like I said in the other Icon thread, open stock will make or break this line for any pro or enthusiast tool user. If they need to warranty out a complete set because you broke 1 socket or ratcheting wrench that's going to be less than stellar. I hate big box stores but if you stroll the tool isle half the space that hand tools takes up is dedicated to open stock. That's what HF needs to do as opposed to the current setup of prepackaged everything.

Geez I know all about that lack of open stock with HF. I often hawk some 10pc sets of Great Neck CrV deep well impact sockets on my tool table normally I keep the cases zip tied shut but I had an open box cuz someone wanted to fondle them and while my helper was ***** watching, someone 5 finger discounted the 7/8" deep. I kept the set for the Farm and figured I get a 7/8" deep impact socket...yup they don't carry it in open stock, They do have a few offerings in open stock but not everything. On the web site they do list 3/4, 13/16, 15/16, 1 1/4 for SAE & 19, 21, 27, 32, in Metric And the prices range from $2.99 to $4.49

I end up paying $7.00 for one Performance Tool 7/8 CrV deep socket to round out the set. Gee whiz I only paid $9.00 for entire set wholesale

 

[dogdog]

The problem I have with made in China is not the quality, it is that you are supporting a regime which is threatening the world order as we know it and we will have to spend more tax payers money on the military and send troops into harms way because of that.

Just read the resigning letter of James Mattis, look what they are doing in Afrika etc..

?????

I think you have listen to one too many of those pod casts or video games too much... or ..... without going into too much politics of things.

They are our competitor / business partner... business wise...
They are a different government that is not USA....
I am not sure what or how they threaten world order, who's world order? The world is no longer 1950s where one country maintain orders....
They have not directly threaten any of the US Allies ie NATO....
and NO they have not bombed Pearl Harbor or Harbor Freight...

Sometimes I wonder where people get all these things from.

o! right just because gyna was mention in that letter ?

 

[Partsguy57]

Icon a new line of precision and professional tools brought to you by Harbor Freight selling "Quality Tools at Discount Prices sine 1977"

We shall see on the line icon tools if they are good... time will tell. On the quality tools at discount tools since 1977... if that were so why the need to bring quality in 2019?

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[Partsguy57]

The real irony is, both of those diagnostic units use the similar basic components as a $300 iPad and they don't do much more but store or display information fed to them from the vehicle. Through the ODB2 port.

In today's world low cost electronics it's interesting that they can justify a $2000 price tag or even worse, $4500.

Other than the fact, of course that people are willing (or maybe willing)to pay the price.


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Volume of sales... very low volume in the scope of things...example cell phone, "everyone " needs one, not everyone needs a scanner.

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[zendriver]

The high price tag is for the databa if information and the bi-directional support.

What justifies the $2500 price difference between the two products?


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[Partsguy57]

Geez I know all about that lack of open stock with HF. I often hawk some 10pc sets of Great Neck CrV deep well impact sockets on my tool table normally I keep the cases zip tied shut but I had an open box cuz someone wanted to fondle them and while my helper was ***** watching, someone 5 finger discounted the 7/8" deep. I kept the set for the Farm and figured I get a 7/8" deep impact socket...yup they don't carry it in open stock, They do have a few offerings in open stock but not everything. On the web site they do list 3/4, 13/16, 15/16, 1 1/4 for SAE & 19, 21, 27, 32, in Metric And the prices range from $2.99 to $4.49

I end up paying $7.00 for one Performance Tool 7/8 CrV deep socket to round out the set. Gee whiz I only paid $9.00 for entire set wholesale [emoji38]_hitti

9.00 for the set? Wow what a bargain... must be loads of quality included in that deeply discounted price....[emoji849]

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[Partsguy57]

?????

I think you have listen to one too many of those pod casts or video games too much... or ..... without going into too much politics of things.

They are our competitor / business partner... business wise...
They are a different government that is not USA....
I am not sure what or how they threaten world order, who's world order? The world is no longer 1950s where one country maintain orders....
They have not directly threaten any of the US Allies ie NATO....
and NO they have not bombed Pearl Harbor or Harbor Freight...

Sometimes I wonder where people get all these things from.

o! right just because gyna was mention in that letter ?

You are so correct.... no countries try to rise to power.... that's a so 20th century thing...

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[zendriver]

The problem I have with made in China is not the quality, it is that you are supporting a regime which is threatening the world order as we know it and we will have to spend more tax payers money on the military and send troops into harms way because of that.



Just read the resigning letter of James Mattis, look what they are doing in Afrika etc..

Just like America Learned long ago, China has discovered that making money, is way more fun than anything else.

Besides, a lot of the money we sent over there, came right back here, with their purchases of US treasury bonds, Real estate and buying or building factories and businesses here.




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[zendriver]

You are so correct.... no countries try to rise to power.... that's a so 20th century thing...

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So with their economic changes, China's trying to become a "real country"?

Why wouldn't they?

I remember the exact same fears with Japan 30 years ago.

Their economy end up shitting the bed and it's never really recovered that glory every since


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[DFB]

9.00 for the set? Wow what a bargain... must be loads of quality included in that deeply discounted price....[emoji849]

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Ya that my source price. Goes to show what a markup retailers can have hey

And a guy can pay more too... they go for $23 -$34 on Amazon

Obviously you don't have to buy them and I'm not here to defend them a but I do sell a lot of them no one has brought them back either over several years time.

I have had my hands an a lot of different CrV impacts Klutch, TSC Jobsmart, Great Neck, the quality generally all seems the same to me. Wouldn't think the Tekton brand impacts any worse or better either, They hold up my Milwaukee impacts including the 2763. No different than the standard HF CrV products, and their biggest drawback is skips in sizes on sets the non professional line.

One a similar note some Cr moly Apex ones I have at 3x the price aren't better at all and are wearing down very quick.

I think I might sell them used on my tool table and get the Sunex set I posted earlier in another thread

 

[Partsguy57]

So with their economic changes, China's trying to become a "real country"?

Why wouldn't they?

I remember the exact same fears with Japan 30 years ago.

Their economy end up shitting the bed and it's never really recovered that glory every since


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That is not what people fear.... any clue on how many China killed of their own in the 20 century alone? Conservative estimates 30 million plus.... their own people.. go do a little research China is swinging with their new guy to a much harder line of socialism...there is a big rise of of the re education camps taking place right now... go do a little research and you don't have to do much. Of course absolutely no parallels to some of what took place in the 20th century is there.....

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[Roundhouse]

In king county you can buy from Tacoma screw , grainger, and fastenal all of which are located everywhere.

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The average joe has heard of none of
These businesses
Home Depot and Lowe’s combined have over 100 stores in Georgia

Grainger has 4 stores in the state

 

[Negen]

Grainger here has about double the radio advertising as home depot. Plus they deliver to your house within two hours of placing order.

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[Negen]

For a little prospective... the average car mechanic/auto tech makes $39,000. Not all of those guys are buying Snap On scan tools. That's 7-12% of their annual income for a single tool.


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Man I made that working at McDonald's at age 16. Kinda sad how different wages are across the USA.

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[L.Cheapo]

What justifies the $2500 price difference between the two products?


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The software.

Ever use a real scan tool? The hardware is a distant second to the software.

No one pays anything close to retail for a Snap On scan tool.

It's also nice to know the investment will be supported down the road, not only until the manufacturer du jour changes.

 

[dogdog]

You are so correct.... no countries try to rise to power.... that's a so 20th century thing...

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.... which country wouldn't .... rise to economic power is different from military bullying..... I am just asking what threat of who's world order ? Don't mistaken rise to power and threat to world order... Some people don't see the world in bigger pictures I guess, just hear what is on the podcast or around them. There is gotta be a better reasoning than this... and besides that.. I don't see the logical connection of that letter globing in China and Russia with that resignation letter and threaten world order....

Economic threat --> Yes... But then we were threaten world orders to the British back in the .... ? and Japan was a threat very recent 1980... btw, they still own us economically like a *****... just you don't see it in the news. In case if you think China is. They are distance third... who's second ... ? But of cause they all looked Chinese to some of the people posting in this thread.. LMFAO..... just see that Chinese spam posts.

Threaten World Order -->

but hey, this is what makes America great unilateral thinking...


^^^^
In case the monkey cult complains... this is not politic or political statement, but philosophy and history and a reasonable question to some claims.

 

[zendriver]

The software.



Ever use a real scan tool? The hardware is a distant second to the software.



No one pays anything close to retail for a Snap On scan tool.



It's also nice to know the investment will be supported down the road, not only until the manufacturer du jour changes.

Not sure why it matters, and I have not yet used an automotive scan tool at that level, but I did work in the software industry where the price mark up on software is generally huge.

I wouldn't expect them to sell one for $9.95, but does that huge price really reflect the true cost of making it and maintaining the product line?

Snap on has been known to have a pretty good price markup for their items, which is perfectly fine.

Apple could probably sell the iPhone for $150 and make a profit, just not as big as profit is when they charge $800.




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[shawhite]

Not sure why it matters, and I have not yet used an automotive scan tool at that level, but I did work in the software industry where the price mark up on software is generally huge.

I wouldn't expect them to sell one for $9.95, but does that huge price really reflect the true cost of making it and maintaining the product line?

Snap on has been known to have a pretty good price markup for their items, which is perfectly fine.

Apple could probably sell the iPhone for $150 and make a profit, just not as big as profit is when they charge $800.


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What is increased productivity worth to you if it’s your business. Being able to fix the vehicle right the first time without Easter egging. Being able to have bi-directional support. Having all the information you could possibly need about that car at your fingertips. And like said above continued support so you are not buying new diagnostic tools every year or 2.

Ps not sure which iPhone you are referring to but last thing I read showed actual build price was $225 for iPhone 7, $250ish for iPhone 8 and close to $500 for the X’s max.

 

[Partsguy57]

.... which country wouldn't .... rise to economic power is different from military bullying..... I am just asking what threat of who's world order ? Don't mistaken rise to power and threat to world order... Some people don't see the world in bigger pictures I guess, just hear what is on the podcast or around them. There is gotta be a better reasoning than this... and besides that.. I don't see the logical connection of that letter globing in China and Russia with that resignation letter and threaten world order....

Economic threat --> Yes... But then we were threaten world orders to the British back in the .... ? and Japan was a threat very recent 1980... btw, they still own us economically like a *****... just you don't see it in the news. In case if you think China is. They are distance third... who's second ... ? But of cause they all looked Chinese to some of the people posting in this thread.. LMFAO..... just see that Chinese spam posts.

Threaten World Order -->

but hey, this is what makes America great unilateral thinking... [emoji481]


^^^^
In case the monkey cult complains... this is not politic or political statement, but philosophy and history and a reasonable question to some claims.

Remove the rose colored glasses my friend.. china is a military power and they are growing that also... to claim otherwise is very foolish and is sticking ones head in the sand.. you ignore history on a colossal scale. History is nothing more then a constant battle of military and economic dominance.

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[Partsguy57]

Not sure why it matters, and I have not yet used an automotive scan tool at that level, but I did work in the software industry where the price mark up on software is generally huge.

I wouldn't expect them to sell one for $9.95, but does that huge price really reflect the true cost of making it and maintaining the product line?

Snap on has been known to have a pretty good price markup for their items, which is perfectly fine.

Apple could probably sell the iPhone for $150 and make a profit, just not as big as profit is when they charge $800.




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You are free to make your own cell phone and the huge profits that go with it.....

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[zendriver]

What is increased productivity worth to you if it’s your business. Being able to fix the vehicle right the first time without Easter egging. Being able to have bi-directional support. Having all the information you could possibly need about that car at your fingertips. And like said above continued support so you are not buying new diagnostic tools every year or 2.



Ps not sure which iPhone you are referring to but last thing I read showed actual build price was $225 for iPhone 7, $250ish for iPhone 8 and close to $500 for the X’s max.

No argument from me, on that point. I have always believed that a tool either pays for itself, or it doesn't. No matter the price, and I could see how advanced diagnostics would help flat rate mechanic

If I was a professional mechanic I probably have that snap on and I may buy that harbor freight model some day just for the hell of it (with coupon)

My point was that the selling price of something D pens as much on demand more so than a real cost to manufacture.


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[zendriver]

You are free to make your own cell phone and the huge profits that go with it.....

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That is true, but what's your point?


Apple Computer has $285 billion in cash much of that from smart phone sales.

Apparently they make pretty good profit off of every phone they sell.which is perfectly fine, since people are willing to pay that.

That was my only point on them

If snap on can get $4500 for a mass produce electronic device then that's good for them


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[Shane6377]

You are free to make your own cell phone and the huge profits that go with it.....

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The point is that there ARE other cell phones and they can cost much less and still do a similar if not the same thing that an iPhone does. I have an iPhone but I know I'm paying a premium for the Apple name and a few preferential options. Apple has a reputation of quality but Android etc are catching up. Some people even prefer phones from companies that were ridiculed for their inferior offerings just a few short years ago.

The same is true of scan tools or most any tool. If you can pay a premium for truck tool names that's your option. Not everyone can or wants to do that. If a few positive reviews come out on YouTube for the scan tool HF will sell tons of them even at $1-2K.


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[victor252]

You would do well to buy and read these books:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533555/?tag=atomicindus08-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1592407366/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Hate to be a hater, but Kahneman admitted he messed up with his book. This is now typical for the field of psychology. The replication crisis is real. Here's a quote from Kahneman:
"What the blog gets absolutely right is that I placed too much faith in underpowered studies. As pointed out in the blog, and earlier by Andrew Gelman, there is a special irony in my mistake because the first paper that Amos Tversky and I published was about the belief in the “law of small numbers,” which allows researchers to trust the results of underpowered studies with unreasonably small samples. We also cited Overall (1969) for showing “that the prevalence of studies deficient in statistical power is not only wasteful but actually pernicious: it results in a large proportion of invalid rejections of the null hypothesis among published results.” Our article was written in 1969 and published in 1971, but I failed to internalize its message."

https://retractionwatch.com/2017/02...d-studies-nobel-prize-winner-admits-mistakes/

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The replication crisis (or replicability crisis or reproducibility crisis) is an ongoing (2018) methodological crisis primarily affecting the social sciences in which scholars have found that the results of many scientific studies are difficult or impossible to replicate or reproduce on subsequent investigation, either by independent researchers or by the original researchers themselves.[1][2] The crisis has long-standing roots; the phrase was coined in the early 2010s[3] as part of a growing awareness of the problem.

 

[dogdog]

Remove the rose colored glasses my friend.. china is a military power and they are growing that also... to claim otherwise is very foolish and is sticking ones head in the sand.. you ignore history on a colossal scale. History is nothing more then a constant battle of military and economic dominance.

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Basic question right to the claims of that post... without going into elaborate history that most seems to forgot, ignored, or selectively remembered.

Whose world order ?

Threaten World Order -->

Don't tell me because their economy advances, their military advance and causing a threat to world orders... alarming... YES.. if that is the case, I am pretty sure any other nation that is less advance than the US can claim US as a threat to world order.. let me see....the world theater is a complex one my friend...again , we are no longer in the 1950s...

Now back to the original topic...

If the price and quality of these new Icon pro line of tools are similar to the pro line of other brands... I think there are still few advantages to get it from HF as mentioned, easier to warranty if something goes wrong... I have had crappy warranty experience from some name brand ahmmmm ChannelDucks.... where the cost of shipping the item back to them is more than the item itself..... and of cause I have to deal with George..For those that argue that the tool truck stops by so that you don't have to spend time driving to the store.... right Daryl is your personal chauffeur, and that truck parks at your location 24/7... otherwise you'll still have to wait or ship it back. competition is good for consumers, so I can show channelducks the middle finger... Having a store front also have some advantages... I buy items that I can hold my hands to most of the times, it's like trying on new clothes... it's just not the same, ordering it online... at least on somethings.

And of cause as anything from HF, take the tool label with a grain of salt... I'll wait and see, but if I am in the market that would be one of the place I look as well more choices....

 

[Partsguy57]

Basic question right to the claims of that post... without going into elaborate history that most seems to forgot, ignored, or selectively remembered.

Whose world order ?




Don't tell me because their economy advances, their military advance and causing a threat to world orders... alarming... YES.. if that is the case, I am pretty sure any other nation that is less advance than the US can claim US as a threat to world order.. let me see....the world theater is a complex one my friend...again , we are no longer in the 1950s...

Now back to the original topic...

If the price and quality of these new Icon pro line of tools are similar to the pro line of other brands... I think there are still few advantages to get it from HF as mentioned, easier to warranty if something goes wrong... I have had crappy warranty experience from some name brand ahmmmm ChannelDucks.... where the cost of shipping the item back to them is more than the item itself..... and of cause I have to deal with George..For those that argue that the tool truck stops by so that you don't have to spend time driving to the store.... right Daryl is your personal chauffeur, and that truck parks at your location 24/7... otherwise you'll still have to wait or ship it back. competition is good for consumers, so I can show channelducks the middle finger... Having a store front also have some advantages... I buy items that I can hold my hands to most of the times, it's like trying on new clothes... it's just not the same, ordering it online... at least on somethings.

And of cause as anything from HF, take the tool label with a grain of salt... I'll wait and see, but if I am in the market that would be one of the place I look as well more choices....

My friend I never said anything about a world order.........go back and review....sounds like you need to lay of the podcast as you accused another of listening to... the fixated on the world order thing is you not me at I made no mention of. I only pointed out what is self evident, economic and military dominance is a constant through history. To say otherwise is to ignore reality.

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[dogdog]

The problem I have with made in China is not the quality, it is that you are supporting a regime which is threatening the world order as we know it and we will have to spend more tax payers money on the military and send troops into harms way because of that.

Just read the resigning letter of James Mattis, look what they are doing in Afrika etc..

My friend I never said anything about a world order.........go back and review....sounds like you need to lay of the podcast as you accused another of listening to... the fixated on the world order thing is you not me at I made no mention of. I only pointed out what is self evident, economic and military dominance is a constant through history. To say otherwise is to ignore reality.

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Yea not you, but you responded to a post I respond to acer66 on post 200, let me know if that is not from a podcast speech... which contains basic claim of the spending $$$ at HF (COO China product) indirectly cause threaten world order....

Again Economic dominance does not always equate to military dominance... did I mention Japan? and Economic dominance is not a justification for flexing military dominance,... and military dominance does not mean invasion...
Unless you claim.... I think you are referring to the purpose of the military in the history of any countries in the world.. and No they are not for world order peace keeping purpose . Peace keeping maybe, again that is the question of whose peace they are keeping...

Just go back and read post
200,202,207,216,219,225,226

If you disagree, we can always start a new thread on this the Economic and military power and dominance...... for the time now we should let the OP back to focus on the original topic. which is ICON brand pro tools at HF... I know a lot of monkey business wanted to get this thread shutdown...

 

[Partsguy57]

Yea not you, but you responded to a post I respond to acer66 on post 200, let me know if that is not from a podcast speech... which contains basic claim of the spending $$$ at HF (COO China product) indirectly cause threaten world order....[emoji38]_hitti

Again Economic dominance does not always equate to military dominance... did I mention Japan? and Economic dominance is not a justification for flexing military dominance,... and military dominance does not mean invasion...
Unless you claim.... I think you are referring to the purpose of the military in the history of any countries in the world.. and No they are not for world order peace keeping purpose . Peace keeping maybe, again that is the question of whose peace they are keeping...

Just go back and read post
200,202,207,216,219,225,226

If you disagree, we can always start a new thread on this the Economic and military power and dominance...... for the time now we should let the OP back to focus on the original topic. which is ICON brand pro tools at HF... I know a lot of monkey business wanted to get this thread shutdown...

Lol not going to waste my time with someone that refuses to see what is self evident.. you like to bring up Japan for instance what do you think Japan was doing in the thirties that led their part of ww.2? Lmao raw materials for their economy and military aspirations... you conveniently leave that out and look at post ww.2 as your example. Our oil embargo of Japan is one of the trigger points that led to pearl harbor... their need for oil for their economy and military... again you are clueless if you think economy's and militarys are not linked. Next are you are going to tell me we never use our military to protect or expand our economy? The chicoms would never.... use their military to further their economic aspirations would they? They are after all as pure as the wind driven snow.. right? Again Japan Japan Japan is the classic example of the link of the use economic and military power to try and achieve a end... back up thirty years and try and use Japan as your example. Thanks again for bringing up japan... makes your arguement look really pathetic... cheers

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[ChrisLS8]

This is completely irrelevent. A mod needs to come in a clean this thread up

 

[Partsguy57]

This is completely irrelevent. A mod needs to come in a clean this thread up

To you maybe... but is it all about you? Me I stated very clearly in the start of my response I was not going to waste my time on arguing what is self evident on economics... but we can discuss what is also very self evident about h.f. cheap tools at cheap prices. You get what you pay for. Cheers

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[M6erfan]

Really guys?

Japan? China? WWII? World dominance? For Pete's sake get a friggin' life and a clue.

This is about a new line of Tools!

Mods, please put this thread out of it's misery...

 

[Partsguy57]

Really guys?

Japan? China? WWII? World dominance? For Pete's sake get a friggin' life and a clue.

This is about a new line of Tools!

Mods, please put this thread out of it's misery...

I thought that part was done.... now you brought it up again...shame on you.

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[thesilverone]

who needs economics classes when there's this thread?

 

[M6erfan]

I thought that part was done.... now you brought it up again...shame on you.

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Your post 20min ago in no way indicated you were done. Your follow up proves as much...

 

[Partsguy57]

who needs economics classes when there's this thread?

It's a two for one deal going here.... still not as good as visiting the magic kingdom (h.f) where ones dollar is worth at least 10...

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[Partsguy57]

Your post 20min ago in no way indicated you were done. Your follow up proves as much...

Lol you could bypass... I have never made any mention of the past subject after I switched back to h.f. subject.

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[zendriver]

Lol not going to waste my time with someone that refuses to see what is self evident.. you like to bring up Japan for instance what do you think Japan was doing in the thirties that led their part of ww.2? Lmao raw materials for their economy and military aspirations... you conveniently leave that out and look at post ww.2 as your example. Our oil embargo of Japan is one of the trigger points that led to pearl harbor... their need for oil for their economy and military... again you are clueless if you think economy's and militarys are not linked. Next are you are going to tell me we never use our military to protect or expand our economy? The chicoms would never.... use their military to further their economic aspirations would they? They are after all as pure as the wind driven snow.. right? Again Japan Japan Japan is the classic example of the link of the use economic and military power to try and achieve a end... back up thirty years and try and use Japan as your example. Thanks again for bringing up japan... makes your arguement look really pathetic... cheers

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Uh, the world is a lot small place than it was 90 years ago.

Another shock, China has been our ally no war with them until goofy-pup started a trade war. with them.

 

[sberry]

I think its genius. If I was starting out today would have a hard time passing it up. So many tools all gathered under 1 roof and,,, they don't always just get the cheapest, Walmart doesn't either, they get the best they can for cheap. HF is continually looking for better and cheaper, the line comes together. Walmart too, they don't want to be a 5 minute warranty center for every socket, they can get a set they sell for 26$ 50 cents she4aper, 3 or 4$ probably but they got to fuss with broken ****,,, 50 cents more, then they raise the price a dollar or 2 and you got Stanley.
It shows the bullshitters from people with real experience, the cheap stuff is so go0od now that it really doesn't pay to shop up if you actually compare tools instead of politics and opinions. Some of the cheap is the same as better they throw a brand stamp on.
I gotta love the argument,,, yes,,, its the same ratchet but its better cause a different vendor sold it. That kind of says it all.
I am not all that impressed with the top of the line,,,, yes,,, 9its a good tool, it may even be the best, its not day and night though. Wow,,, isn't this 30$ wrench beautiful,,, yes,,, and what a guy, threw in a free keychain but if HF brings it for 1.50 they are robbers cause you could get it for 1.43 elsewhere. I am really impressed they can bring the wrench or screwdriver retail that good for the 1.50.
I bought a couple new drivers the other day, new 1.50 ones way better than worn 10$ ones and no sign they wont go about as far.

 

[Partsguy57]

Uh, the world is a lot small place than it was 90 years ago.

Another shock, China has been our ally no war with them until goofy-pup started a trade war. with them.

No the world is exactly the same size as it was 90 years ago.... things can move much faster but I can assure you it is the same size.... cheers

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[ngk22r]

Uh, the world is a lot small place than it was 90 years ago.

Another shock, China has been our ally no war with them until goofy-pup started a trade war. with them.

China stopped being an ally after WWII when they turned commie.

Prior to what you call “goofy-pup” the USA was getting the short emd of the stick since China does not respect intellectual property.