sberry
Banned
Whats that to do with how good the wrench really is considering its price?
HF going after pro-tools now with ICON line.
- Thread starter SilverBulletZ06
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The answer...Absolutely nothing.
This thread reminds me of the old saying: Don’t argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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sberry
Banned
I dont have a golden arm and want somthing to turn the bolt. The fact that it is cheaper is a huge benefit. All the better.
Negen
Well-known member
What tools are icon going to be cheaper than? From the looks of it other than snap on and cornwell the prices seem like they will be the same or similar to the exact same tools from all the other Asian tool importers.
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Do we know what the price point is on the new Icon ratchets, sockets, wrenches?
Nope
Negen
Well-known member
Only in compression to the tools made by the same OEMs already on the market. kolbalt,Milwaukee,dewalt, are probably the closest in price and similarity. I do not know all the brands making tools at these location but those three seem the most similar. Any cheaper than those brands I suspect they will be taking a loss.
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sberry
Banned
They dont have ro be the absolute cheapest, they need to be similar. Little bit here or there doesn't mean squat. The numbers are margins and not multiples.
WittHay
Well-known member
All I know mainland China has the largest army in the world and is run by the Communist Party of China and Taiwan is a country/state on a island with a freely elected government.
HF wants to do import tools from Taiwan, which I dont think is a bad thing but there is lots of competition out there
When I think of Chinese chrome sockets that is Sears Craftsman, HF Pittsburg, Husky, Stanley and not sure what else.
I can name at least 40 different made in Taiwan chrome socket brands. The most common talked about on Garage Journal is Tekton, GearWrench and to to a lessor extent Carlyle.
The advertising is always going to Icon vs. Snap-on but the reality is Icon vs. Tekton or GearWrench
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I'm curious to see. The tool box and the torque wrenches are pretty expensive.
https://www.protorquetools.com/cdi-...2-nm-micrometer-adj-torque-wrench-dual-scale/
https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-professional-click-type-torque-wrench-64065.html
2/3 the cost of a CDI micrometer style?
Ignoring the quality argument since we have no way of knowing at this point; I'm not sure who the target market is. No financing, no delivery from the store just expensive LTL delivery from the website.
https://www.strictlytoolboxes.com/extreme-tool-boxes-55-x-25-deep-12-drawer-base-cabinet.html
Better drawer layout than the Icon...$30 for liftgate delivery...5 year warranty...$800 less.
Extrapolating from these prices the combination wrench set is going to be approaching very close to Wrightgrip or Williams Supercombo prices.
I guess for a guy who doesn't have Internet access and only knows the offerings and prices on the tool truck that visits his shop these would seem like viable price points. 5 minutes of research seems to find better 'value' elsewhere.
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sberry
Banned
The procing isnt going to be premium. This will still be lower priced better tools. It will make the other box stores more competitive.
This is where Sears ****. They should have went up, chased SK instead of HF. They tried to be Walmart after it was too late, teamed with Kmart instead of being Target or better.
This is where Sears ****. They should have went up, chased SK instead of HF. They tried to be Walmart after it was too late, teamed with Kmart instead of being Target or better.
Duker
Well-known member
Whoops.... I thought I was going to read about tools and not the “new world order....” I have enough problems trying to figure out global stock markets everyday much less political regimes... going to head back to the main forums and try and find a tool thread! ��
Maybe they are targeting my son.
He's thinking about going into automotive repair, he likes saving money (because he has to) and he likes shopping at HF.
Besides, $99 is a "lot of money" to pay for a certified torque wrench, that can be re-calibrated?
The "leading tool truck" model is 4x that price.
He's thinking about going into automotive repair, he likes saving money (because he has to) and he likes shopping at HF.
Besides, $99 is a "lot of money" to pay for a certified torque wrench, that can be re-calibrated?
The "leading tool truck" model is 4x that price.
sberry
Banned
To tell the truth there are some things I like better from there, I like the welding hood, near flawless. The battery load tester has been outstanding and at 50$ it pays for itself about every use. Couldnt buy the parts for the leakage tester for that. Only reason we bent the bj press was operator error. I havnt bought anything there that didnt work like it should. I havnt shopped there a lot though, it's been pretty cherry pick. Only piece I wasnt real impressed with was a Porter Cable recip saw and that isnt due to them.
I take that back,,, an early set of metric impact deep sockets but later versions were fine.
I take that back,,, an early set of metric impact deep sockets but later versions were fine.
Ramblin Man
Well-known member
Yes. I saw their icon brand torque wrench and it was a very nice unit.. But way overpriced for harbor freight brand.. It's almost same or very near other better known quality brands.. I would rather buy the better brands for not much more $$$
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$99 is about a day's pre-tax wage for a lube tech / apprentice. So I'd call that a lot of money. The tool truck is way more expensive but lets him make weekly payments. I'm not suggesting getting buried in debt is a wise idea for him or any other guy just starting out but if that is the target market for these tools then HF needs a financing option if we are talking about close to SK prices.
I like that their torque wrench is 90 teeth. Tekton's is 36 but it's $40. A US made CDI is $120 and the Carlyle digital is $129.
Maybe SBerry is correct. They are targeting the SK level. I have plenty of tools made in Taiwan but they were significantly cheaper than the US made equivalent. Once that spread narrows I pick USA.
At the end of the day if the 10 piece wrench set is $100 I think they will sell reasonably well. But based on the announced roll cab pricing I think the wrench set is going to be $200. At that price point I think there are better options.
Time will tell.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Realizing that this thread along with the one i started when i saw the ICON tools first hand at November's SEMA show have gone to **** with hijacks about everything else but the tools, the quote above sums up the biggest challenge facing the ICON brand.
Harbor Freight could release the best made tools in the world but, because it's harbor Freight, people will prejudge the tools without ever using them. Yep, I think that about does it until the tools actually show up around April-May.
Partsguy57
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Realizing that this thread along with the one i started when i saw the ICON tools first hand at November's SEMA show have gone to **** with hijacks about everything else but the tools, the quote above sums up the biggest challenge facing the ICON brand.
Harbor Freight could release the best made tools in the world but, because it's harbor Freight, people will prejudge the tools without ever using them. Yep, I think that about does it until the tools actually show up around April-May. [emoji481]
And what do you think the prejudge came from?? Good grief h.f. made their bed based on what they have sold in the past. Cheap tools at cheap prices. I.e you got what you paid for.
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Maybe it's all relative, since $99 buys two bags of groceries, or a so-so pair of leather work boots.
Hopefully my son will focus more on making money wrenching and less obsessing for the best deal on tools, since for the most part, any will get the job done, now days.
Maybe it's all relative, since $99 buys two bags of groceries, or a so-so pair of leather work boots.
Hopefully my son will focus more on making money wrenching and less obsessing for the best deal on tools, since for the most part, any will get the job done, now days.
I think he will make out ok as long as he knows the proper tool for the proper job
and not stuck with a tool snub mentality... It's never the tool, it's all about the person using the tool...BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
They earned it.
sberry
Banned
Yes, the carbon load tester. We used it on a hundred, probably more batteries and ran it against another tester, perfect. Really takes the pain out of getting one at that price and makes the return on investment really hi.
Tools or tool shopping is really different than when we started. I bet the new wrench set is closer to 50 than 100? But when I start I looked on the trucks and made lists, **** I hit 14k and half way thru the giant set Sears had for 3k. I was a little disapointed when they came in 1980, they were not the same as the older ones I had. I figured I would upgrade some but it wasnt that big a deal and scored a lot from a couple sales after the fact for duplication, bought a few things along the way.
It was worth it to get going fast with a master set at the time. Then it was pretty much Sears or the truck with a little parts store in between, there was some SK.
Now there decent stuff,, as good or better than Sears on the shelves of several different stores and super sale sets are such a bargain any cheaper and they would pay you to carry them to the car. Yes,,,,, there are some trinkets but it's really free and they are useful too. A lot of it I used for a career, once I replaced a few sickets they had problems with all worked. A lot of that stuff a guy needs when needed, a few pieces never used but not used every dayfor most guys, huge wrenches, big sockets etc.
Tools or tool shopping is really different than when we started. I bet the new wrench set is closer to 50 than 100? But when I start I looked on the trucks and made lists, **** I hit 14k and half way thru the giant set Sears had for 3k. I was a little disapointed when they came in 1980, they were not the same as the older ones I had. I figured I would upgrade some but it wasnt that big a deal and scored a lot from a couple sales after the fact for duplication, bought a few things along the way.
It was worth it to get going fast with a master set at the time. Then it was pretty much Sears or the truck with a little parts store in between, there was some SK.
Now there decent stuff,, as good or better than Sears on the shelves of several different stores and super sale sets are such a bargain any cheaper and they would pay you to carry them to the car. Yes,,,,, there are some trinkets but it's really free and they are useful too. A lot of it I used for a career, once I replaced a few sickets they had problems with all worked. A lot of that stuff a guy needs when needed, a few pieces never used but not used every dayfor most guys, huge wrenches, big sockets etc.
Partsguy57
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I'll give your son this advice based on personal experience as my father was a professional mechanic with his own shop and me owning a napa store and full machine shop for many years.( sold millions in parts and services to professional shops) your son needs to buy the best he can afford as they will last longer and give the best performance. Most important do not work for or if self employed do not discount work or advertise as being the cheapest on anything. Charge on the upper end of prices and do only quality work with quality parts.. if you go the other route and discount work you will attract the discount ("cheap skate" ) person who will tell their friends about the great deal they got and to bring their cars to this guy. ( people love to talk about the cheap deal they got) and you will have nothing but problem cheap customers and you will fail or eek out a living turning wrenches. Quality or premium work is where the money is and this the customer you want. I have recommended shops to customers for years and would never recommend a shop that does "cheap" work as that translates into a shop having to cut corners in many areas including tools. H.f. is not where professionals buy their tools. That doesn't mean snap on either but if you are a professional act like one and charge your customers like one. Now will harbor freight come out with better tools? Time will tell, but they have a well earned reputation to overcome.
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Partsguy57
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The point is not to make out ok.. the point is to excell and quality tools are part of this.I think he will make out ok as long as he knows the proper tool for the proper job
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SK is Snap On quality without the mark up for the name and truck delivery. HF targets Snap On because there is a larger price gap and more name recognition.
SK is known for quality at reasonable prices. Snap On is known for quality at inflated prices. Who's market would you target?
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DFB
Well-known member
I have to agree on that assessment on HF quality knowing a vast majority of items they've carried the past.
I've been around different tools and suppliers for a long, long time but the rough quality of many things HF has brought to the consumer market couldn't often ever be matched elsewhere.
To their credit they have come long way since their black print colored paper flyers mailed out in an envelope days.
Current tool box offerings a great example of that!
Lot's of speculation for something no one has seen yet
And sure seems like a BIG jump from that promo link on the first page of this thread. (Question is that all we know about the Icon still? )
I really want to see the quality of chrome sockets and the especially the wrenches, Most of HF wrench quality is still lags far behind some things more generally accepted lets say like their impact stuff is. Though that's nothing superior granted it doesn't seem to break but IMO the majority of the impact stuff has very loose fit on tool anvils, the extension bars are terrible, really bad at least the ones I have. Talk about adding to torque loss problems.
(Although nothing to cry over in a small way I am somewhat sorry I actually put the money out on them. Got like 4 different lengths in 2 drive sizes 8pcs altogether for less than $20
)Partsguy57
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Very true...except snap on is the not the same quality as sk in general. Sk is good but snap on is above. The question is the added cost worth the value..
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Ramblin Man
Well-known member
Thank you sberry for your response. I thought that was the one you were referring to. There is a positive response to those carbon pile testers from Harbor Freight from some people on iATN also. Going to have to purchase one.
.... Type A ?
Most pros I know readily admit that there are several brands that offer quality equal to that of Snap On. The only guy I know who doesn't, has a huge tool bill he's trying to justify. He also doesn't own any SK, Proto, Wright etc tools. Ironically he does own HF and uses them daily. Lol
My point is that there is a growing demographic of Pros and DIY'ers that feel they are paying a premium for the Snap On status symbol and that's who HF is targeting.
There are plenty of pros using HF tools daily (impact sockets, toolboxes, jacks) so the perception that all HF tools are junk throw away tools that no pro would use just isn't the case anymore.
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Partsguy57
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Partsguy57
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Do you wrench for a living or in the automotive trade in general? Not my experience do pros use h.f other then a 1 time use sort of thing. Do they all use snap on? Of course not many fine brands out there... h.f. is not one of them... pros using every day tools such as h.f. ratchets, wrenches, sockets and the like? No.. shade tree or others but not pro..
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sberry
Banned
My bud bought a 5T long reach floor jack. Somewhere not far north of 200$. Used it every day for 25 years, every day several times. No one looked at his tool brand, no one looks at mine. Customers absolutely dont care. Masters that work in my shop NEVER say,, we got to get better tools. I had a bud stop a while back, would really like to unload a bunch of snap stuff without taking a bath.
Could really shove all my stuff off in the scrap (hand tools) and not get hurt too bad. Despite mostly Sears with some other stuff mixxed in no one,,, no one beats me on stuck, busted and rusted or bolt/unbolt ability no matter how good or what tools they have.
Could really shove all my stuff off in the scrap (hand tools) and not get hurt too bad. Despite mostly Sears with some other stuff mixxed in no one,,, no one beats me on stuck, busted and rusted or bolt/unbolt ability no matter how good or what tools they have.
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I agree it makes sense to target Snap-on in the advertisement because the price comparisons are more extreme. The questions at hand are:
1) Can they overcome their previous (well-earned) reputation for selling just good enough tools for cheap by actually speccing and selling a quality product?
2) If they target SK level quality will they discount it enough for it to be worth trying?
My main issue is the price point. I have no doubt the factories in Taiwan can turn out a quality wrench. Perhaps even as good as a U.S. factory (gasp!). But I'm only interested in it if they save me significant amounts of money. Otherwise I'll just buy USA for a little more and feel good about doing it.
Like many of us here the argument is fairly academic for me personally. I already own more wrenches than some professional mechanics (which I am not) so I doubt even if they are stellar I'll buy any. But I like to know what's available and when someone asks what's best at a certain price point to be able to provide a well reasoned answer.
I've got a lot of buddies in the trade, the smarter ones of the younger generation are switching away from truck brands because they can buy Asian tools with a lifetime warranty for a fraction of the price. One guy was explaining he thinks the truck model is out-dated, back when there weren't tool stores open 7 days, late in the weekdays, the tools had to come to the techs. Now they can run to the big box store after work, or order online during their break, there's no need for a truck to come around every week.
They all have a bit of snap-on scattered around, pretty much everyone I know has a #2 Philips soft grip screwdriver, quite a few have a flex ratchet, but it's a lot more selective than the older guys, who treat snap-on as a status symbol.
Iluvbeer
Well-known member
You’re always gonna have people out there that believe because they paid 10x the price of something else that it’s ten times the quality. Truth is, that’s just not realistic. Yes, many of the name brand tools are of higher quality but IMO, they aren’t worth the premium price. You’ll also have the guys that’ll say when your livelihood depends on it, you need to invest in the best because you don’t want a tool costing you money. This “usually” isn’t true either because typically if you break or need a tool, you can ealk a bay over and borrow one off of your fellow mechanic to get you by. The real truth is that todays society is materialistic based one, it’s all about who has the biggest house, the diesel in the drive that’ll never pull anything larger than a 12’ trailer, the what can I do to spend money so I can look like I’m the big boy on the block.
In my shop you have a wide variety of tools and opinions. You have 24 year olds with $70k worth of hand tools and a 30k box, a 56 year old (my best mechanic) with mostly craftsman, and they’ll all tell ya something different with their opinions on buying tools.
My thoughts are this: buy whatever floats your boat but don’t think just because you paid 10x the price means you got 10x the tool. In many instances, you just paid 10x for the name and having a bigger ego. Not always but sometimes.
Electronic tools I will venture to say there is a vast difference on. Cordless impacts would be a great example. You’ll have your diehards who would buy a cordless snap on impact when in fact they are far inferior to other brands at a much drastically cheaper price. Another example of brand snobbery
In my shop you have a wide variety of tools and opinions. You have 24 year olds with $70k worth of hand tools and a 30k box, a 56 year old (my best mechanic) with mostly craftsman, and they’ll all tell ya something different with their opinions on buying tools.
My thoughts are this: buy whatever floats your boat but don’t think just because you paid 10x the price means you got 10x the tool. In many instances, you just paid 10x for the name and having a bigger ego. Not always but sometimes.
Electronic tools I will venture to say there is a vast difference on. Cordless impacts would be a great example. You’ll have your diehards who would buy a cordless snap on impact when in fact they are far inferior to other brands at a much drastically cheaper price. Another example of brand snobbery
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sberry
Banned
We will see, I think they will target the box store tool and try to get the Sears customer. Sears made the mistake of not trying to get on the ladder just under SK, they were trying to compete with HF. They should have actually sold SK as a premium, allowed customers to price Cman against it instead of coming with a generic Sears tool even cheaper than Cman as an option. Duh,, did the same in appliances.
I think he will make out ok as long as he knows the proper tool for the proper job
He will do just fine, whatever he does.
My Dad was a successful farmer and service station owner, but he didn't have a lot more tools, than one could carry in a couple of toolboxes.
He'd probably ***** about all the money I spend at HF. and If I ever bought him a Snap On tool as a gift, he probably would have beat me over the head with it.
My Dad could fix anything, I can fix anything. Last night I gave son a ODB2 reader, since it's Christmas, plus he just got burned by an idiot mechanic.
"do you know who's the best mechanic in town? You are - you just don't know it yet."
Personally, nowadays, I think if you can fix somebody's car right the first time and at a reasonable price, they won't care if you fixed it with a HF electronic fly swatter.
This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't live very close to a HF and I'm already well set for tools, but another quality option I can recommend would be nice.
I'm curious what the price will be too.I'm hoping it's not like Carlyle at Napa where it's a decent value when on sale. When it's at the normal price I usually check to see if I can wait for Zoro to put out a 20% coupon and buy Proto since the price can be fairly close. Shame since my local Napa is pretty much the only place I can go in and buy decent tools short of ordering them online. I'd buy more if the everyday price remained closer to the sale prices.