To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

HF haters, tool snobs, and trolls

Status
Not open for further replies.
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Teken

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
8,214
Location
The Bad Lands
John,

In the other thread I asked you a question regarding your thru-hole set. Would you mind giving us some feed-back on that set.
 
OP
M

MechanicNamedJohn

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,344
John,

In the other thread I asked you a question regarding your thru-hole set. Would you mind giving us some feed-back on that set.

I purchased that set, not because I could take a nut off an elongated stud. I purchased it for clearance. It has more clearence than a std 1/4 ratchet with a std shallow socket, but the leverage of a 3/8's.

It can get in to a lot of tight spaces. Example; bell housing bolts. It is a great time saver.

Long ago, I had the Matco "Special Forces" air ratchet kit. I loved it for that reason. Does anyone know if Matco still offers it? I may have to get one again.
 

Teken

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
8,214
Location
The Bad Lands
I purchased that set, not because I could take a nut off an elongated stud. I purchased it for clearance. It has more clearence than a std 1/4 ratchet with a std shallow socket, but the leverage of a 3/8's.

It can get in to a lot of tight spaces. Example; bell housing bolts. It is a great time saver.

Long ago, I had the Matco "Special Forces" air ratchet kit. I loved it for that reason. Does anyone know if Matco still offers it? I may have to get one again.

You my friend have missed the boat on that one, it is no longer being made by either company Armstrong / Matco.
 

Blacknwhitepit

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
3,176
Location
Eastern Tennessee
"How long have I been on?"



DeanMartin.jpg


What did I miss. There must have been some drama
 

SocketDeviler

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
1,204
Location
Texas, 75050
'Twas an interesting thread. Read it late last night and all seemed fine...oh, well. Glad to hear you're hanging in there John. Looking forward to those video clips you mentioned in the locked thread.
 
OP
M

MechanicNamedJohn

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,344
You my friend have missed the boat on that one, it is no longer being made by either company Armstrong / Matco.

Found one set on eBay, but no air ratchet. I'll keep looking. Damn it Teken, now I want to get it again. LOL.
 

Bolster

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
4,056
Location
Mexifornia
Welcome John!

If I were to characterize this board's overall approach to HF, it would be that most people here are sophisticated and inquisitive, looking for genuine quality items and actively shunning the ****...both of which are available at HF.

I'm sure you've seen that we have an entire thread getting close to 200K views which is devoted to finding the "good stuff" and avoiding the "bad stuff" at HF. Even the snobs amongst us like to know what are the genuinely good items that can be found at HF.

I guess you could call me a low-level snob...I am a Proto loyalist (a Protonaut!), but have a fair amount of S-O, and try not to buy too much C-man...and you'd find dozens of HF items in my shop: Unibits, Microfiber towels, castors, cleaning brushes, even a pair of calipers. Heck, I own an X3 mill, of which a very similar version was sold at HF (altho HF recently dropped it). I'm probably fairly typical of this board in terms of my relation with HF. Your average member probably doesn't shun HF as much as it might appear at first blush.

Anyway, welcome, glad you're going to hang your hat here awhile! Nice tool setup. Can I borrow a couple...?
 
Last edited:

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
I've been an Auto Tech since the 60's. I have been paying one tool man or another since the first time I stepped on a MAC tool truck in the late 60's. I bought the Biggest set of boxes MAC sold and they were (500 series) 26 inches wide. Since that day I bet there hasn't been a single year that went by that I wasn't dishing money out to a tool man. I love my Snap-On, MAC, Matco (And a few Cornwell) tools and a really good tool can make a differance on how much money you make. The thing is there are really good tools that won't send you to the poor house if you shop carefully. The US General Boxes are super tough. Much better than comparable Craftsman. I know they are tough because I used two of them in my shop and they wern't treated gently. There is a lot of Junk at HF but there are some great buys as well. I have several of their Orange dead blow hammers that have taken years of abuse on a daily basis. I have one of their brass hammers that I've been using for years. I also have a set of each (SAE&MM) super long pittsburg full polish wrenches that I caught on sale for 19.99 a set that I have really abused without a single break or rounded bolt. When I talk about abuse I mean 4 feet of pipe on a 22mm wrench with my size 13 feet jumping on it. There are some real bargins to be had at HF. BUT I couldn't make a living using nothing but HF tools. I bought a set of shallow six point sockets (one side standard one side metric) with some funky looking ratchet to put in the race car trailer. I've used those sockets for three years on impacts without breaking one. They are very well made to be made in China. A lot of the HF wrenches are pure junk. In most cases you get what you pay for but sometimes bargins can be found. Had I used this train of thought years ago I could have saved myself a few hundred thousand dollars over the years.

If I had to start all over right now (way to old for that) the first purchace would be the same set of boxes you have and then hit up Sears for their professional line of tools and some of their basic tool set and build around it. There is money to be made without the tool man owning your soul. I've always done OK from being a MG line technician right out to the point I closed my shop. I could have been much better off had I been a little more frugal in my tool purchaces. Good for you! Even better if they are doing the job for you. I can't keep my stuff that organized. I use to have 30 minutes each morning just to pick up stuff I left laying everywhere.
 

sk farmer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
5,577
Location
nd
bolster hit it right in his comments.the only thing i have to add is a statement about the small but vocal group of anti hf people. they will bash it at any cost. you will soon figure out who they are and learn to ignore them. by the way that is an impressive assortment of tools no matter what brand it is. if they work great for you that is all that really matters.
 

Bolster

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
4,056
Location
Mexifornia
the only thing i have to add is a statement about the small but vocal group of anti hf people. they will bash it at any cost.

And I will add that some of these guys are great guys, very knowledgeable and helpful. They just don't do HF, that's their thing, so we just back away slowly around them, when it comes to that topic. All I'm saying is, don't throw out the baby with the bath-water.
 

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
One of my sons has a couple of the US General 750 Lb roll carts. Very well made especially for the 149.00 (on sale) each he got them for. They are better than any roll cart SO or Mac had until the last few years. They are incredible for the money. I've almost purchaced one but I'm at a shortage of room as it is.
 

Hiball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,035
Location
Missery
bolster hit it right in his comments.the only thing i have to add is a statement about the small but vocal group of anti hf people. they will bash it at any cost. you will soon figure out who they are and learn to ignore them. by the way that is an impressive assortment of tools no matter what brand it is. if they work great for you that is all that really matters.

Its a shame that some people have to walk around on egg shells around here, This is another perfect example of a informative thread being locked because of a few people who want to run this place and dictate what discussions we are having. I was really looking forward to seeing updated status on how the tools where holding up and which ones he was having problems with. I urge you Ryan not to allow a percentage of the community to dictate to the rest of us, Its a very simple solution for the haters. If you dont like HF tools stay out of the thread labeled "My Harbor Freight Investment". Its not Rocket science, Nobody tricked you into coming thru the door. You came because you wanted to bash and trash his House, plain and simple. Its a shame that Bull had to babysit this thread prior to Ryan coming in and Shutting the door. Now open the door back up so some good can come from the discussions and send the trash to the curb, When it starts piling up.

I cleaned this thread up, but on second thought - I think I'll close it.

Fellas, the drama is getting tired. It's the same old names, so you know who you are... If you can't talk about tools and garages, etc... without getting upset or upsetting others, maybe it's time for some of you to find another forum. IF this continues, I'll help you do so.

Drama *****.
 

Davefr

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
11,905
Location
OR
Some very good points are being made. What's really ashame is that there are kids right out of tech. school that feel pressured to jump on the truck tool bandwagon. It's a combination or peer pressure to become one of the gang and effective marketing by the tool companies. This can be financially devastating if the career takes a turn for the worse.

Mechanic John makes a good point at suggesting that the skill primarily comes from the person turning the wrench vs. the brand of the wrench and that a good wrencher can get by with ordinary tools and that professional tools won't make for a good mechanic.

I'd like to see those starting out in the trades go conservative with tool purchases until they get the lay of the land. (that's where HF, Sears, SK and the used market can come into play). Once they're committed to the wrenching career then fill up the toolbox as you'd like.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
If I had to start over today I would certainly have to consider that stuff, the price makes some of it hard to beat. I bought a battery load tester, as was said, paid for itself the first time and every time since, we use it quite a bit.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I bought half a dozen sets of impact sockets, the Pittsburgh ones for my service truck where use was occasional. I intended to use them till there was an issue or cause to replace them with something better, haven't had to do one yet. Only bought one set some time ago, a deep metrics that were junky, don't recall the brand but I don't think they were Pitts, some other generic type. I didn't bother returning them, just replaced broken ones with stuff from the jobber.
 

selohssa

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
861
Location
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Some very good points are being made. What's really ashame is that there are kids right out of tech. school that feel pressured to jump on the truck tool bandwagon. This can be financially devastating if the career takes a turn for the worse.

I'd like to see those starting out in the trades go conservative with tool purchases until they get the lay of the land. (that's where HF, Sears, SK and the used market can come into play). Once they're committed to the wrenching career then fill up the toolbox as you'd like.

I agree 100%. I was very impressed with the set up in the original thread. I have seen so many people enter a trade and buy $20-30k in tools only to leave the trade after a year and lose half or more of their investment. The set up that was posted yesterday was complete, you could not buy even the main box off of a tool truck for the same money as everything.

We all have our preferences and that is fine. One thing that I appreciate about this site is that we all learn from each others experiences. If it is an informed opinion, post it.
 
Last edited:

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
As for equity most tools depreciate. Ebay is full of top name tools selling for a % or new. I went to an auction, fools paid more for China end wrenches than would have cost new, branded stuff brought 20 cents on the dollar.
 

t100

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
6,101
learn to ignore people and people who ignore you. it goes both ways.

in general, folks on this board are good people, fewer sour grapes here and there, but who cares, it's a virtual society.
 
OP
M

MechanicNamedJohn

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,344
I hear ya fellas... I'm about sick of it too... no more.

learn to ignore people and people who ignore you. it goes both ways.

in general, folks on this board are good people, fewer sour grapes here and there, but who cares, it's a virtual society.



Just unlock the original thread; please. The trolls are not being punished here, in fact I think they got what they wanted. Almost seems like they are being rewarded. Don't like a thread, talk some ****, and it will get closed.
 

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
As a shop owner I've had a few guys come straight out of places like wyotech and are already in to the tool man for 10-15K before they learn that what they really paid for was a pipe dream. As a new line tech without an instuctor holding their hand they couldn't make enough money to cover their tool payments. The real workd is much differant than the classroom. If I had to start out now in this feild I would reconsider my career. Techs make less today than they did 20 years ago. 20 years ago 50% Commission was standard for a Master technician. Then the better you are the more complex the jobs are while the guy with an IQ of 90 is slamming out brake jobs all day long making a killing. Thats the stuff they don't teach you. I rotated the gravy jobs in my shop so everybody could make a living. Now the tools have gone through the roof and while shops are charging 100+ dollars per hour now the techs are down to about 25%. If they would tell these guys coming out of schools this and they would shop tools a little more frugal more techs would be hanging around. When you can make more delivering pizza that turning wrenches it becomes a no brainer. I've seen weeks where we sat and played cards all week and I didn't come close to make enough to cover my tool payments. and had to dip into savings just to make it. There is nothing wrong with buy less expensive tools that will get the job done.
The shop I was working at burned down back in 1987. I lost everything in that shop. I had some stuff at home but I went right down to Sears and bought a toolbox (about 500 dollars) and 2500 dollars in tools. I made just as much money with those tools as I did all the High quality tools I had in that shop. Had I had a brain in my head I wouldn't have stepped back into the tool truck trap.
 

caper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
3,185
Location
cape breton
I like the fact your getting the job done with the HF stuff.My box is a mixture,from Princess Auto(Canadian version of HF)to Snap on and Mac,Proto,Gray,Bonney,Herbrand,just about a little of everything.I'm not above buying cheap tools and using them everyday.Could I buy all Princess Auto?I doubt it since I enjoy the quality brands a lot but if it's something I want to try before shelling out for something expensive or something I don't use often I'm all for saving some money that I can spend on another ratchet.Just cuz it's imported and cheap doesn't necessarily mean it's no good.I worked professionally with cheap tools for a lot of years before I started upgrading.I used to figure that if I didn't spend the money on tools the wife would spend it on something else anyway.I got rid of the wife but not the tool buying habits.
 

King Bojack

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
241
I'm new here and only a year into auto school and man alive the tool truck guys got one hell of a sales pitch. Too bad I've seen guys in the industry at my internship using tools from freakin' Home Depot and anywhere else they can get tools at times getting by just fine. Seeing that changed my perception of the tool trucks big time.

So big props to Mr. HF tool man for having the stones to save the cash. Laugh as hard as you can all the way to the bank. The old thread should be re-opened if possible and trolls banned or something.
 

toolnut

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
756
Location
Lockport,NY
I think that the "Made in the USA" thing is coming to an end. So if there is a tool out there that will handle the job I will buy it. I still try to gobble all the USA stuff I can but I have to be a realist.
 

Lump

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
3,405
Location
Jamestown, Ohio
I love older USA-made tools. I buy them when I can find bargain prices, because I like hunting for "hidden treasures", and because I worship the incredible quality. And, I am in no big hurry to fill in the various sets, because I already have SOME BRAND of tool to be used for most jobs, if needed. I hope one day to build a really cool assortment of tools, all premium USA-made quality.

But I have bought many HF tools over the years too. Frankly, since I stopped wrenching for a living while still a young man in the 1970's, it has been unrealistic for me to buy super tools off of the trucks for many years. Can you imagine paying $200 for a set of sockets that you may not use for a year at a time? How about $50 for a ratchet, even though you might not use it more than once or twice a year?

There are many tools I would never have owned at all, if not available from HF, simply because I could not afford them, or could not justify them.

Then for a while I was pursuing my collector car hobby by visiting bone yards in the area, and scrounging parts. I had a traveling tool box made from a hiker-style back pack, jammed with tools which I might need. But I quickly found out that I lost a lot more tools than I ever broke. So I started filling it with HF tools. Lost pieces were no longer a crisis for me. Then my sons got old enough to start borrowing my tools for bike repairs, etc, and they were constantly losing tools. Rather than ban them from all my tools, I made separate drawers with tools which they were welcome to use (even though I still chewed them out if they left tools lying on the driveway, etc).

But I have also bought quite a few worthless tools at HF, and one of my biggest complaints is that you have only 30 days to return them. So if you buy a tool and then set it on a shelf for a while before you open it (and then later discover it is junk), then it may be already too late to return it. :mad:

Certain tools simply MUST be made of really great quality, in my opinion; IE: certain pullers will bend under pressure and pop right off into your face, unless they are really well made. Premium quality ratchets really do a better job too, in many cases.

Today I putter around with my collector cars, my old farm tractor, lawn mowers, etc. I am slowly switching over the tools in my boxes to older, top quality USA-made tools. But if I were a young technician with a good job who was making a good living repairing vehicles every day, I could not afford to wait around to hopefully find a bargain someday on good tools, nor could I leave a "hole" in my sets of tools, waiting till I found just the right part. I would simply order new tools off of the trucks, and pay for them on time...like all the other techs.

I use Garage Journal to share my tool questions, ideas, suggestions, and "found-treasure" stories with other people who think like me. If I am not interested in a certain thread, I don't read it. What a concept.

I wish I had seen this locked thread before it was gone. :(
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I think the high end guys make great stuff and as a business model Snappy is doing just what they should. Only thing they do now which is kind of a shame is pimping out the name on junk at Sam's Club. They have re-branded stuff but at least sold it thru their own systems.
As for low priced hand tools and some of the other items it makes the rate of return so fast, thats where they really come into play and the low prices make it so a guy can afford to have some stuff to work with even if he cant afford the top tier. Makes plentiful tools affordable to many small business also, no real excuse in todays world not to have adequate simple tooling. At one time the HF electric tools were useless but I am sure even that quality has gone up substantially in many cases.
 

plinker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
4,286
Location
Northern Wi
I started buying tools in 2005 as I got sick of trying to find the tools my brother was using at the time (Dads old C-man & misc), That and I was starting to work on my stuff.

At first I was only interested in USA made well that lasted 'till '07 when some of the Napa servive tools I bought were made in Taiwan.

Now I'll buy whatever I think is the best quality and cost effective. I'd prefer US made stuff (as most probably would) but I'll buy whatever from wherever to get the job done. Example is my tire changer, it's manual type made by Larin (HF sells it too). 65$ at Fleet farm. It changed my life by making it easier to change tires. I probably would not have been able to afford a US made one.
 

Old Donn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,585
Location
Michigan
As a shop owner I've had a few guys come straight out of places like wyotech and are already in to the tool man for 10-15K before they learn that what they really paid for was a pipe dream. As a new line tech without an instuctor holding their hand they couldn't make enough money to cover their tool payments. The real workd is much differant than the classroom..

:beer: Precisely Mr. HS. Ran into a kid at a local trade school that had a display at the Detroit Autorama. He was leaning up against his new Macsimizer chest. When I asked how much it was, he admitted to being into the MAC dealer for $70,000! Here's a kid, fresh out of school, hasn't got a job or earned a dime yet and he owes the tool truck 70 large. Like someone said in another thread, the customer doesn't care about your tools. He wants his vehicle fixed correctly and in a timely manner.
 

Displaced Hokie

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Messages
1,778
Location
Western NC
I also salute the OP - the box and tools are awesome. I don't think we've ever really seen what a fully decked out and loaded HF tool selection looks like. Usually HF tools have been seen in a suplementary role here, not primary.

If anything, this is a great way to show the new guys that you can have a "loaded to the gills" box without breaking the bank. If you want (or need) to upgrade later, have at it.

Again, very cool original thread.
 

mrholeshot

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
8,043
:beer: Precisely Mr. HS. Ran into a kid at a local trade school that had a display at the Detroit Autorama. He was leaning up against his new Macsimizer chest. When I asked how much it was, he admitted to being into the MAC dealer for $70,000! Here's a kid, fresh out of school, hasn't got a job or earned a dime yet and he owes the tool truck 70 large. Like someone said in another thread, the customer doesn't care about your tools. He wants his vehicle fixed correctly and in a timely manner.

He better get a Job in Jay lenos garage, 70K, wow!!!! I've been in about 10K a few times
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom