HF oddest size skip set

[scottybk]

I've been puzzled by this HF wrench set for a long time. Why does it skip 13 mm and 18 mm?

I don't think I've ever seen a metric set that skipped 13 mm? Maybe they think people will buy the SAE set too and sub the 1/2 for the 13? - and the 5/8 for the 16 mm?

Those 2 sae subs make sense, but 11/16 is not a great sub for 18 mm the way 13 and 1/2 and 5/8 -16 mm are.

Wouldn't it be easier to just charge say $3 more and include the 13 and 18 mm at least, and maybe drop the 26 MM? Might throw in an 8 mm in lieu of the 26 mm is an idea too,

I of course give them a pass on 20 mm and 23 mm, they are obscure and no one cares about them.

This particular set has puzzled me for a very long time.

 

[ericm]

Maybe it goes with the HF socket set I recently bought that skips 12mm.

 

[cgrutt]

Isn't it the other way around you can generally use 13mm on 1/2 but 1/2 may not work on 13mm? I don't know why they skip sizes I prefer no skip sets personally.

 

[scottybk]

Maybe it goes with the HF socket set I recently bought that skips 12mm.

12 is skipped pretty often, esp in older sets from like 10+ years ago. The no-skip movement only picked up steam fairly recently, before that skips were the norm rather than the exception.

 

[cgrutt]

Just checked a Makita socket set 8-21 but skips 9,11,16,19 & 20. I don't think I ever used it not even sure why I bought it.

 

[L.Cheapo]

12 is skipped pretty often, esp in older sets from like 10+ years ago. The no-skip movement only picked up steam fairly recently, before that skips were the norm rather than the exception.

News to me. My 1990s Craftsman sets don't skip 12mm. Neither do any of my 10+ year old Snap On sets--wrenches or sockets.

I wish I lived in a place where 13mm and 1/2" fasteners could use the same tool.

 

[snickers muncher]

I guess it's a budget set made with the Asian car market it mind.

My Toyota uses 14 and 19 a lot while my Dodge demands 13 and 18. My small set to carry in the trunk of the Toyota is worthless in the Dodge.

 

[Sbusmech]

I agree the no skips brigade is getting stronger. Almost all my Snap On sockets and wrenches did have some skips. I would just purchase the ones I needed to fill in. I've worked on foreign and domestic cars and trucks, school buses, cement trucks, ag & construction equipment and I have sockets that I haven't ever used in the two decades of doing it. Not having a 13mm in the set is kind of strange even though a 1/2 never failed me. When you have both SAE and Metric sizes don't really skip. I noticed DIY'ers are the ones usually getting upset at skips, but like I mentioned earlier, out in the real world I really haven't been without. This doesn't include specialty tools the factory recommends because that could be endless. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure someone is going to disagree and to them I say pound sand.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

That's seems a bizzare selection.

• Missing M8 (13mm) for DIN/ISO.
• Does not fully cover any of DIN / ISO / JIS.
• Includes less common sizes.
• Includes a big 26mm which is non-standard and presumably more expensive to produce.

Lots of great ratings and reviews from customers though!

I guess it's a budget set made with the Asian car market it mind.

Sounds plausible. Forget the standards, target a certain group of vehicles.

 

[Steve_P]

12 is skipped pretty often, esp in older sets from like 10+ years ago. The no-skip movement only picked up steam fairly recently, before that skips were the norm rather than the exception.

I have HF socket sets from 1987. They didn't skip 12mm; they're all over Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi.... 13mm is occasionally found on Asian vehicles but not very often IME. Not sure I've ever used a 20mm but it's been reported here many times that it's used on GM fuel filters, Romanian tractors and combines .....

 

[scottybk]

A 23 mm thin wall socket is used for the input nut on late 1990s Saturn SL automatic transmissions, which are known to loosen up about once a week so that the car loses it's reverse gear until you tighten it. Even globs of red Locktite doesn't hold that nut on for long. I still have my thin 23 mm socket even though the car is long gone.

16 mm and 5/8 are so close I bet many manufactures use the same blanks to stamp them. Same for 3/4 and 19 mm. Older sockets used to be stamped often with 19 mm / 3/4 right on the socket.

My Suzuki sx4 car uses 12 mm for the rear brake caliper pin bolts. 14 mm on the front brake pins.

20 mm I have never used.

 

[mike93lx]

A 23 mm thin wall socket is used for the input nut on late 1990s Saturn SL automatic transmissions

Good thing you are setup to fix both of them that are still on the road!

 

[scottybk]

Good thing you are setup to fix both of them that are still on the road!

LOL my 1999 Saturn SL had 330,000 miles on the clock when I scrapped it. Was burning about a quart of oil every 500 miles. The Saturn TAAT auto trannys were total junk, the valve bodies fried solenoids constantly, hence the hard clunking/slamming that loosened the 23 mm nut. Also they were prone to having a pin back out and drop down into the gearset at highway speed and literally explode the ******. I've seen them in junkyards where it looks like they ran over a roadside bomb in Iraq. The entire ****** case would be blown apart into jagged metal like it was dynamited.

The stick shift ones were a much better option.

Most of them died from people not checking the oil.

 

[AEAdam]

I've been puzzled by this HF wrench set for a long time. Why does it skip 13 mm and 18 mm?

I don't think I've ever seen a metric set that skipped 13 mm? Maybe they think people will buy the SAE set too and sub the 1/2 for the 13? - and the 5/8 for the 16 mm?

Those 2 sae subs make sense, but 11/16 is not a great sub for 18 mm the way 13 and 1/2 and 5/8 -16 mm are.

Wouldn't it be easier to just charge say $3 more and include the 13 and 18 mm at least, and maybe drop the 26 MM? Might throw in an 8 mm in lieu of the 26 mm is an idea too,

I of course give them a pass on 20 mm and 23 mm, they are obscure and no one cares about them.

This particular set has puzzled me for a very long time.

You are looking at this backwards. That set is the asian std set PLUS:
15 (not sure why, 15 is a option under the now defunct ANSI std)
21 (smart: ISO and ANSI std)
26 (could be their 1").

My guess is, this set was assembled deliberately and specifically for a use case.

My chart really helps for stuff like this and should be sticky:

Edit: oops didn't read my own chart. Look at the flanged bolts. That's why 15 and 21mm are included. The Japanese must use the ISO standard for flanged bolts. Still doesn't explain the 26mm, but there will be a reason.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

flanged bolts

You may well be aware already, but DIN also has standards for flanged things, e.g. for nuts

DIN 6923 - Hexagon nuts with flange
https://www.fasteners.eu/standards/DIN/6331/ - tall ones

Also M3 is 5.5mm.

 

[liliysdad]

But metric is simpler!!!!!

I know, I know….

 

[rooster59]

Just checked a Makita socket set 8-21 but skips 9,11,16,19 & 20. I don't think I ever used it not even sure why I bought it.

7/16 ~= 11mm, 5/8 ~= 16, 3/4 = 19mm, 20mm uncommon. So this kinda makes sense if you assume folks have a full SAE set.

 

[cgrutt]

7/16 ~= 11mm, 5/8 ~= 16, 3/4 = 19mm

Yeah, I know that. Didn't buy the SAE set. I think I bought this set to throw in a Milwaukee Packout that I had at a cabin I was working on. Certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had realized it didn't include 19mm as thats what I tend to use most doing decks and such. My main socket sets are all no skips this was just something I threw in the cart at Home Depot. Doesn't appear to have ever been used.

 

[Wrench97]

I hate sets that skip sizes, if you do it for a living sooner or later you are going to see every size, 11mm on replacement banjo bolts on calipers, 12 &13 mm are very common, and I use 16mm frequently also. I ran across 20mm the other day on Ford(maybe)...Then there is always the rusted bolts you hammer a smaller size on.....

 

[mngundog]

Yeah, I know that. Didn't buy the SAE set. I think I bought this set to throw in a Milwaukee Packout that I had at a cabin I was working on. Certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had realized it didn't include 19mm as thats what I tend to use most doing decks and such. My main socket sets are all no skips this was just something I threw in the cart at Home Depot. Doesn't appear to have ever been used.

That's a great set to have in a travel kit (with my stubby), I have both metric and SAE so I have a 19.

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Makita-IMPACT-XPS-Socket-Set-SAE-with-Standard-SA-10-Piece-E-01672/311427428

 

[AEAdam]

I hate sets that skip sizes, if you do it for a living sooner or later you are going to see every size, 11mm on replacement banjo bolts on calipers, 12 &13 mm are very common, and I use 16mm frequently also. I ran across 20mm the other day on Ford(maybe)...Then there is always the rusted bolts you hammer a smaller size on.....

I know no one here will agree with this, but just wanted to log my dissention.

When you guys talk about these rare occasions when you need a non std size (like 20mm), it starts to sound almost reasonable to me. Like you almost have me. What manner of sorcery is this? Then I think some of you have 20mm sizes in every set! Some of you have not only shallow sockets and deep sockets, but impacts and combination wrenches in non std sizes. Guys that’s just dumb.

Do you do it with bit sockets too? 7 or 9 mm allens?

I should go into business making torx bits in sizes T21, T22, T23 etc for our OCD friends on GJ.

 

[KnurledNut]

Just checked a Makita socket set 8-21 but skips 9,11,16,19 & 20. I don't think I ever used it not even sure why I bought it.

The skipped sizes are covered in the SAE set. Someone at Makita put some thought into the arrangement and this was one of the reasons why I ended up purchasing both sets, because I didn't want duplicates. They did include both 5/16 and 8mm though. If I had designed these, I would have included an 11/32 (9mm) instead of the 5/16.
An old pic from when they were new:

 

[KnurledNut]

I know no one here will agree with this, but just wanted to log my dissention.

When you guys talk about these rare occasions when you need a non std size (like 20mm), it starts to sound almost reasonable to me. Like you almost have me. What manner of sorcery is this? Then I think some of you have 20mm sizes in every set! Some of you have not only shallow sockets and deep sockets, but impacts and combination wrenches in non std sizes. Guys that’s just dumb.

Do you do it with bit sockets too? 7 or 9 mm allens?

I should go into business making torx bits in sizes T21, T22, T23 etc for our OCD friends on GJ.

You mean dissension?
7mm and 9mm hex bit sockets? Need them both if you're a mechanic that works on a variety of stuff. I've used them on Dodge and Ford.
20mm sockets can be used on damaged lug nuts and I have some air fittings that take a 20mm wrench.
Just because you've never personally experienced a need for it doesn't mean the rest of us are dumb...

 

[AEAdam]

You mean dissension?

Yes, thank you.

7mm and 9mm hex bit sockets? Need them both if you're a mechanic that works on a variety of stuff. I've used them on Dodge and Ford.
20mm sockets can be used on damaged lug nuts and I have some air fittings that take a 20mm wrench.

I think there are no std cap head screws with 7 or 9mm heads. Is it possible those were inch sizes? Could those have been 9 and 11/32? I did a similar exercise on ANSI cap head screws and don't recall these as stds so maybe they are metric.

My Durango has 9 and 11mm bleeders, and 11mm socket head caliper bolts. Or are all of those inch sizes? See, I think so. I went out and bought an 11mm Allen bit socket, but I think its really 7/16" and I probably had one in my SAE set and didn't think to use it.

Let’s just say these are legit metric sizes requiring metric tools. Do I need 9 and 11 in every set so that I don’t have skips? Are these always bleeders? Or do I just need 9 and 11 mm bleeder wrenches?

Just because you've never personally experienced a need for it doesn't mean the rest of us are dumb...

See, I wanted to make the point without insulting anyone and that's exactly where you went. Sorry.

BUT: it is a bit weird for a group that seems so fixated on tool costs to ensure you only buy sets containing tools that you may never need. And while @KnurledNut or others can point to specific legit applications for non std sizes, I think most of our members want "no-skip" sets because some dumb *** in China made a holder that has spots for every size.

In my optimization oriented mind, I'd probably suggest the opposite:
1) You might need a set of beater sockets in every size imaginable in your box. Put aside Whitworth, to accommodate damaged fasteners, why not have SAE sockets? And maybe such a set should be impact rated. I wonder if our pros do that.
2) Other sets shouldn't include these sizes. I have 9 and 11 in EVERY wrench set. I just don't need them. Maybe I need them in 1 set. Similarly, even real bolt standards, I don't need 5-7mm in every set of 1/4" drive.

Not to harp on it, if you watch the toolbox tour of @HumbleMechanic, he has some sets, but not sets of everything. Now he's working on a single brand so that makes perfect sense. But he's optimized what sizes he needs.

In short: I'm interested in the application for the tools I own. Why do I need them? That's why I made the chart. I don't trust that tool manufacturers know what tools are required. Snap on lists application data for some tools/sets, and I'm impressed by the HF set that started this thread; clearly optimized for Asian automotive products.

 

[AEAdam]

You may well be aware already, but DIN also has standards for flanged things, e.g. for nuts

DIN 6923 - Hexagon nuts with flange
https://www.fasteners.eu/standards/DIN/6331/ - tall ones

Also M3 is 5.5mm.

DIN 6923 is equivalent to ISO 4161. Both are the coarse thread series and not typically found on automotive products. ISO 4162 is the fine thread version. The DIN equiv has similar wrench sizes as the ISO but has a bigger flange. Not sure how common that is.

What I think you will see is automotive companies switching to the std with the smaller head size. Germany currently has the biggest bolt standards. So I think we've already seen ISO fasteners showing up. (18s showing up where 19s were, 16s in for 17s.) But Japanese cars with their small fasteners may or may not move to bigger heads.

None of it is random. Its all about the ratio of tensile strength and bearing capability under the head.
For us, there's a clear advantage in the DIN standards. The larger heads mean more working space, and more torque, less chance of rounding heads. One of the many reasons I always preferred to work on German cars.

 

[51dueller]

It's not always a normal socket cap bolt. Ford used 7mm hex on its caliper slide bolts in mid 2000s.


Early 90s Dodge Caravan had a 9mm thread pitch on theirs. The shop had a special heli-coil kit for those as they were easy to crossthread by customers.

 

[KnurledNut]

I think there are no std cap head screws with 7 or 9mm heads. Is it possible those were inch sizes? Could those have been 9 and 11/32? I did a similar exercise on ANSI cap head screws and don't recall these as stds so maybe they are metric.

My Durango has 9 and 11mm bleeders, and 11mm socket head caliper bolts. Or are all of those inch sizes? See, I think so. I went out and bought an 11mm Allen bit socket, but I think its really 7/16" and I probably had one in my SAE set and didn't think to use it.

Let’s just say these are legit metric sizes requiring metric tools. Do I need 9 and 11 in every set so that I don’t have skips? Are these always bleeders? Or do I just need 9 and 11 mm bleeder wrenches?



See, I wanted to make the point without insulting anyone and that's exactly where you went. Sorry.

BUT: it is a bit weird for a group that seems so fixated on tool costs to ensure you only buy sets containing tools that you may never need. And while @KnurledNut or others can point to specific legit applications for non std sizes, I think most of our members want "no-skip" sets because some dumb *** in China made a holder that has spots for every size.

In my optimization oriented mind, I'd probably suggest the opposite:
1) You might need a set of beater sockets in every size imaginable in your box. Put aside Whitworth, to accommodate damaged fasteners, why not have SAE sockets? And maybe such a set should be impact rated. I wonder if our pros do that.
2) Other sets shouldn't include these sizes. I have 9 and 11 in EVERY wrench set. I just don't need them. Maybe I need them in 1 set. Similarly, even real bolt standards, I don't need 5-7mm in every set of 1/4" drive.

Not to harp on it, if you watch the toolbox tour of @HumbleMechanic, he has some sets, but not sets of everything. Now he's working on a single brand so that makes perfect sense. But he's optimized what sizes he needs.

In short: I'm interested in the application for the tools I own. Why do I need them? That's why I made the chart. I don't trust that tool manufacturers know what tools are required. Snap on lists application data for some tools/sets, and I'm impressed by the HF set that started this thread; clearly optimized for Asian automotive products.

Definitely metric.
https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/9mm-brake-caliper-hex-bit
11/32 hex keys and bit sockets are very uncommon. That being said, I do have one.

 

[Debcrow]

I think part of the problem is that when USA Car Manufacturers finally started using metric fasteners, they kind of refused to use what is common metric sizes. I remember being disappointed when the metric set I had skipped 15mm, which my Ford Pickup used on several fasteners instead of the more common 14mm. And yes, I have used a 9mm, GM AC compressor clutch center bolt was 9mm AND left hand thread.

 

[Kurt4440]

Do you do it with bit sockets too? 7 or 9 mm allens?

I think there are no std cap head screws with 7 or 9mm heads. Is it possible those were inch sizes?

See, I wanted to make the point without insulting anyone and that's exactly where you went. Sorry.

Maybe you should spend some more time working with your tools, rather than telling everyone how wonderful your tools are.

 

[jayemm]

As has been said here many times before, you don't know what you're going to encounter in the world of fasteners. I've always been the maintenance/repair, as-needed basis DIY through the years and have unexpectedly encountered 7mm hex head screws, 9mm allen head bolts and small external torx screws and others I can't presently recall. For the amount of wrenching that many members here perform I can definitely see the need for no-skip sets. Maybe not every set but at least the size is covered in one or two sets, or if really oddball, acquired individually. No fun being "dead in the water" unable to remove some ******* fastener.

 

[AEAdam]

Maybe you should spend some more time working with your tools, rather than telling everyone how wonderful your tools are.

Let me just repeat back what I'm hearing:

Because BMW uses this one tool, for Lord knows how many vehcles, you saying you think every set of allen bit sockets should include a 7mm. Because SOMEWHERE there may be an application, therefore a set that skips this size would be unacceptable?

I think the idea of selling a set of tools that only includes std sizes or even most used sizes was originally intended to save cost. Adding tool sizes for which there is no known std or they are very rare could be (was once) seen as "padding out a set".

I'm not saying it's dumb to own a 7mm Allen socket. I'm saying it's dumb to insist every set includes a non-std size.

And btw, can we not have a single civil discussion without resorting to insults? WTH, man.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I've been puzzled by this HF wrench set for a long time. Why does it skip 13 mm and 18 mm?

Asian commonality of sizes?
For that matter, why is a Honda dual sport spark plug 18mm hex?

 

[bwringer]

...16 mm and 5/8 are so close I bet many manufactures use the same blanks to stamp them. Same for 3/4 and 19 mm. Older sockets used to be stamped often with 19 mm / 3/4 right on the socket...

I've often wondered if something like this is going on with these bizarre skip sets. They make a set of blanks for inch or barleycorns or whatever, and broach them slightly differently for nearest millimeter measurement, stamp the numbers, and out they go.

Why the heckin' heck you'd skip 13, 16, and 18 but include 11mm and 26mm, I'll never be able to guess. Yes, almost everything I work on is JIS, so I get that 13mm is uncommon in some worlds, but it does pop up. Just no rhyme or reason.

The 1/2" drive Pittsburgh impact socket set at HF is bizarre:
It includes: 10 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 17 mm, 18 mm, 19 mm, 21 mm, 22 mm, 24 mm, 27 mm, 30 mm, 32 mm
So they left out 11mm, which I approve of, but where the hell is 12mm? A 16mm would be nice, too. At least the 17mm and larger sizes are well-chosen to match stuff that actually exists.

But the Pittsburgh 1/2" drive shallow impact set is different. For some reason.
10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 16mm, 17mm, 19mm, 21mm, 22mm, 24mm, 27mm
So there's an 11mm no one cares about, but at least this one includes 12mm. 16mm is present and accounted for, but now 18mm is missing. WTF?


If you want something like no-skip, you have to step up to the much shinier Quinn shallow impact set, which includes:
10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 16 mm, 17 mm, 18 mm, 19 mm, 21 mm, 22 mm, 27 mm
No 20 or 23mm, fine. But why skip over 24mm to include 27mm?

But the Quinn 1/2" deep impacts take yet a different tack:
11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 17 mm, 19 mm, 21 mm, 22 mm, 24 mm
Honestly, IDC about 10 and 11mm; no one has any business using a 1/2" drive anything on itty-bittys like that anyway. But why start with 11mm instead of 10mm or 12mm? And this is another set with no 16mm and no 18mm, which are quite common, and are present in the shallow set. Why? No one knows.

Again, I have no clue what bizarre manufacturing logic is at play here. The real crime, if they must sell snaggletooth skip sets, is that they do not generally have the open stock sockets to fill in the gaps.

 

[Stress911]

I was looking at the Pittsburg 3/8 impact set, but its missing the 15mm! WTF! Thats the one i would use most

 

[Hakeem]

Maybe you should spend some more time working with your tools, rather than telling everyone how wonderful your tools are.

Your example supports his point. A specialty socket sold for one specific brand of automobile, manufactured by a tool company called Assenmacher Specialty Tools, probably isn’t needed by anyone who doesn’t service BMWs regularly.

I think @AEAdam is mostly correct - it’s good to have complete, no skip sets of the basics—combo wrenches, sockets—but beyond that, focusing your tool purchases on the fasteners you’re likely to encounter is a sensible approach. I like having complete sets because it makes me feel like I’m ready to handle anything but if I’m being honest, 10-15% of my tools see 90% of the action.

 

[AEAdam]

If the concern was really that "you never know what you'll encounter" or "what about damaged fasteners?" "I might need to hammer the next lower size on." a "no skip" set would have both inch and metric sizes. If you started to damage your 16mm fastener head, you'd go to 5/8" not 15mm. If a 13mm was dodgey, I'd go to 1/2" before 12mm. 10mm, 3/8" etc.

A true "no skip" set would look like the picture below, inch and metric mixed together (I think this makes sense for flare nut wrenches especially):



What I believe is, one or 2 GJ members took pictures of their socket drawers for "Show us your Toolbox". They bought Ernst rails and there were gaps they thought looked bad. None of this is about actually fixing things. Its a weird group think based on one or 2 people with OCD from a long time ago and we keep talking about it as if its real.

For @Hakeem, Phil, I expect this could be something for you to legit consider. In an earlier post I suggested maybe assembling a "monster set" of impacts that is both metric and inch. I'm sure you encounter both. Not sure about you, I tend to have these units separated in my head. I'm not instantly sure if 19mm is larger or smaller than 3/4". If they were arranged in true size order, that might help me. Just a thought. I'm not recommending this for every set. But maybe one set would make sense.

I'm always interested in what pros who give a **** think. I think @2ndGearRubber has said his solution is the Snap On FX (the extra tight fitting) sockets. I know Koken makes a similar set. That might be a better alternative. I'd feel comfortable buying metric and inch Icon sets and mixing them together before splashing out for FX sockets. That could give you more capability for a lower price.

To be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Seriously, I could care less what sizes are included your socket sets. It's the whole concept of "no skips" that kinda irks me. And I see manufacturers like Tekton introducing these enormous sets and I think it's wasteful. I really don't want to store 5,6,7mm 3/8" sockets in my box. I can kind understand a 19mm 1/4" drive before I can understand an 8mm 1/2" drive socket. I think Tekton is responding to what they perceive the market wants. And I think the market is sometimes full of **** (being overly harsh for effect).

 

[E46 Tony]

To be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Seriously, I could care less what sizes are included your socket sets. It's the whole concept of "no skips" that kinda irks me. And I see manufacturers like Tekton introducing these enormous sets and I think it's wasteful. I really don't want to store 5,6,7mm 3/8" sockets in my box. I can kind understand a 19mm 1/4" drive before I can understand an 8mm 1/2" drive socket. I think Tekton is responding to what they perceive the market wants. And I think the market is sometimes full of **** (being overly harsh for effect).

That reminded me of an ad I saw recently on Facebook, a complete waste of box space just for the meme. I guess if you really need to twist the heads off some small fasteners these would fit the bill

 

[51dueller]

 

[Kurt4440]

Let me just repeat back what I'm hearing:

Because BMW uses this one tool, for Lord knows how many vehcles, you saying you think every set of allen bit sockets should include a 7mm. Because SOMEWHERE there may be an application, therefore a set that skips this size would be unacceptable?

I think the idea of selling a set of tools that only includes std sizes or even most used sizes was originally intended to save cost. Adding tool sizes for which there is no known std or they are very rare could be (was once) seen as "padding out a set".

I'm not saying it's dumb to own a 7mm Allen socket. I'm saying it's dumb to insist every set includes a non-std size.

And btw, can we not have a single civil discussion without resorting to insults? WTH, man.

Your example supports his point. A specialty socket sold for one specific brand of automobile, manufactured by a tool company called Assenmacher Specialty Tools, probably isn’t needed by anyone who doesn’t service BMWs regularly.

I think @AEAdam is mostly correct - it’s good to have complete, no skip sets of the basics—combo wrenches, sockets—but beyond that, focusing your tool purchases on the fasteners you’re likely to encounter is a sensible approach. I like having complete sets because it makes me feel like I’m ready to handle anything but if I’m being honest, 10-15% of my tools see 90% of the action.

Working on the brakes on my '03 Ford Focus, and reading the manual it says, and I quote; ".....use a 7mm Allen to remove the guide bolts..."

Anyone own one?

I went through a couple of sets I have, and neither have a 7mm in 'em.

I noticed 17/64 is a hair small, and 9/32 is a hair big.....crazy.

Since you guys think that 7mm and 9mm Allen wrenches are not needed, here is a list of car manufacturers that I have worked on where these tools were necessary.
Audi
BMW
Chrysler
Ford
Jaguar
Jeep
Mazda
Mercedes
Saab
Volkswagen
I am sure there are more.
Additionally, this topic has been discussed on this forum before.

As far as civility in posts go, if you can preach to me from the top of mount Snap-on, and try and convince me that my tools are not needed or not good enough, I feel fully justified in telling you that you should spend more time using your tools rather than talking about them, especially since you are clearly ill informed about the use of 7mm and 9mm Allen wrenches.

 

[AEAdam]

As far as civility in posts go, if you can preach to me from the top of mount Snap-on, and try and convince me that my tools are not needed or not good enough, I feel fully justified in telling you that you should spend more time using your tools rather than talking about them, especially since you are clearly ill informed about the use of 7mm and 9mm Allen wrenches.

Dear Kurt:

There is no "mount Snap on". If I've done that to you, made you feel inadequate, I apologize.