HF Toolboxes Workbench - Phase 3

[liquidh8]

These benches are so awesome, I may have to sell my Stanley Vidmars and make one!

 

[alpinewhite]

OK as a "rebel", Depending on the size, frequency, and location of the fasteners, I'm going to say the construction is OK.

Lets assume each loaded box is 1,000 pounds. Maximum distance from the wall is about 2 feet, so not a huge amount of torque. His height above floor isn't much.

The weight is spread across 10 feet, so that's about 300 pounds per foot of wall.

Each box is 245 lbs with a 2633 lb capacity. Worst case is 2878 lbs per box. Two boxes add up to 5756 (almost 3 tons; a Suburban). Would anyone want a Suburban hanging six inches above your toes to be secured to the wall by 3 or 4 lag bolts? I'd be wanting jack stands.




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[liquidh8]

Each box is 245 lbs with a 2633 lb capacity. Worst case is 2878 lbs per box. Two boxes add up to 5756 (almost 3 tons; a Suburban). Would anyone want a Suburban hanging six inches above your toes to be secured to the wall by 3 or 4 lag bolts? I'd be wanting jack stands.


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[Outlawmws]

Each box is 245 lbs with a 2633 lb capacity. Worst case is 2878 lbs per box. Two boxes add up to 5756 (almost 3 tons; a Suburban). Would anyone want a Suburban hanging six inches above your toes to be secured to the wall by 3 or 4 lag bolts? I'd be wanting jack stands.
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This^^^^


Not this VVVVV

OK as a "rebel", Depending on the size, frequency, and location of the fasteners, I'm going to say the construction is OK.

Lets assume each loaded box is 1,000 pounds. Maximum distance from the wall is about 2 feet, so not a huge amount of torque. His height above floor isn't much.

The weight is spread across 10 feet, so that's about 300 pounds per foot of wall.

Is it worth it to be able to get unrestricted access? Probably not for me,but it was obviously important to the OP. Maybe the dog wants to lay under there?

Except its THREE boxes, not two... 44 " boxes X 3; less than 12 ft. Maybe 8 studs to hold it off the ground... 3 X 2878 lbs = > 8,000 Lbs...

Do you really think a stud is going to hold 1000 Lbs cantilevered with a couple of lag bolts?

I had my workbench lagged into the wall (supported on the floor). I clamped something in my vise, and ripped the bench off the wall, by myself...

Get some legs under that setup...

 

[woodrail]

This^^^^

Not this VVVVV

Except its THREE boxes, not two... 44 " boxes X 3; less than 12 ft. Maybe 8 studs to hold it off the ground... 3 X 2878 lbs = > 8,000 Lbs...

Do you really think a stud is going to hold 1000 Lbs cantilevered with a couple of lag bolts?

I had my workbench lagged into the wall (supported on the floor). I clamped something in my vise, and ripped the bench off the wall, by myself...

Get some legs under that setup...

OK I'll play along!

Realistically, I bet that the boxes will never be loaded at the capacity. For "safety factor" sake lets go ahead and use 8,000 pounds.

12' = 10 studs so that is 800 pounds per stud. This is negating any benefit for the wall system.

We really can't say yes or no on this based on the wall. Is this 2X4 or 2x6 or concrete block? You really think this only has 3 or 4 lags? I'm betting closer to 12 or 15. Would you feel safer if this was through bolted to 3" tube columns? We simply don't have enough info.

What I will say is that more than likely his steel framing that holds the boxes together isn't strong enough to prevent the boxes from deforming when loaded and you open the drawer full of sockets. Chances are good that something is going to twist and pop some important fasteners.

In short do I think it will hold? Probably. Would I do it? Nope. The builder has at least a grand in the bench and has put a lot of work creating a really nice bench. Order four real nice chrome legs with adjustable feet (I think Ikea sell them). Cheap insurance to protect your great work!

 

[alpinewhite]

From Vector Statics class: Drawing a free-body diagram and assuming that the center-of-gravity is 9 inches out from the back wall (half of the 18" depth), the 8634 lbs of cabinets create a 6476 ft-lb moment arm. This moment arm is counteracted by the lags to the wall. Assuming that the lag bolts are 2 feet up from the bottom of the box, all the lag bolts in unison are in 3238 ft-lbs of tension (6476 ft-lbs / 2 ft). This puts 324 lbs (3238 lbs / 10 bolts) of tension on each lag/stud combination. This is minimum. It would be more if a drawer is pulled out as the center-of-gravity goes away from the wall. Putting some human weight on the box/vise/drawer would worsen the situation as well.

To see how much 324 lbs of tension is, screw one of these lag bolts on a ceiling joist. Have two 162-pound men both hang on this lag bolt 24/7. Do you think this bolt/stud will eventually fail? I think so. Bottom line, please support it from the bottom.

 

[alpinewhite]

double-post. sorry

 

[woodrail]

From Vector Statics class: Drawing a free-body diagram and assuming that the center-of-gravity is 9 inches out from the back wall (half of the 18" depth), the 8634 lbs of cabinets create a 6476 ft-lb moment arm. This moment arm is counteracted by the lags to the wall. Assuming that the lag bolts are 2 feet up from the bottom of the box, all the lag bolts in unison are in 3238 ft-lbs of tension (6476 ft-lbs / 2 ft). This puts 324 lbs (3238 lbs / 10 bolts) of tension on each lag/stud combination. This is minimum. It would be more if a drawer is pulled out as the center-of-gravity goes away from the wall. Putting some human weight on the box/vise/drawer would worsen the situation as well.

To see how much 324 lbs of tension is, screw one of these lag bolts on a ceiling joist. Have two 162-pound men both hang on this lag bolt 24/7. Do you think this bolt/stud will eventually fail? I think so. Bottom line, please support it from the bottom.

Again, you are making some HUGE assumptions. We just do not have enough info. How do you know that he doesn't have continuous blocking in the wall behind the upper wall steel frame? For all we know he could have 24 1/2"x3" lags there.

And I would stand under a lag bolt with 300 pounds hung on it all day. That is nothing.

 

[alpinewhite]

Again, you are making some HUGE assumptions. We just do not have enough info. How do you know that he doesn't have continuous blocking in the wall behind the upper wall steel frame? For all we know he could have 24 1/2"x3" lags there.

And I would stand under a lag bolt with 300 pounds hung on it all day. That is nothing.

Irrespective of how many lags there are, there is 3238 lbs of force pulling on that wall 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

[Outlawmws]

Here is a reference I found for lagbolts; can't say for sure it's accurate, but I think it not far off in my experience: this is probably assuming ordinary common construction lumber:

1/4" dia will support about 125 pounds

3/8" dia will support about 175 pounds

Still want to stand under it @ 300 lbs loading?

 

[woodrail]

The reference I found, NDS 2005, Table 11.2A, list pull out strength at 238 pounds for a 3/8" bolt PER INCH.

Yep, I stand under it if he used more than a 1 1/2" bolt.

 

[Sims5]

Kinda funny that you guys are all "discussing" if this guys boxes are going to fall off the wall and the poster hasn't chimed in.

 

[Outlawmws]

Maybe all three are already on their face, and he's embarrassed...

 

[woodrail]

Maybe he thinks we are both full of **** and laughing his *** off reading all this!

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Maybe he thinks we are both full of **** and laughing his *** off reading all this!

Or maybe he's laid up in the hospital.

 

[mikefromme]

Or maybe he is an engineer and knows what he is doing.

 

[kenburkholz]

I have always used denatured alcohol to dissolve the glue that holds on emblems on tool boxes and on cars. This will not harm the finish. Ken.

 

[Blackmarket]

Steevo, since you've had this setup for a while now. How do you like the HF boxes that you've selected? Pro's/Con's? Thanks

 

[slickstysix]

I love this thread! Tons of great ideas. I plan on building one similar with a HF box on one end and a service cart on the other end, and a sitting spot in the middle. It won't be as big as Steevo's, but with the ability to roll out the tool chest and cart. The problem I see is that with 2 fixed casters on one end it's going to be a bear to swing it in, unless it's end loaded, which it won't be. It has to go in from the front, so I need to put swivel casters on both ends. Anyone have a set from their build they want to sell me?

 

[XLR99]

Definitely a lot of great ideas here! My current bench doesn't have a leg cutout; I'm wondering about a variation using one 44", an 18" side box, with space in the middle for a seat.

 

[vankaye]

I'm in ! THanks to Stevo for the great inspiration! Brought the boxes home on Saturday and save 200 bucks with the 3 day sale.

Now to start sourcing my steel and ordering the feet.

I do have a question about bench-top... What do you guys suggest is the best way to get a stainless top put together for this size bench? I'm thinking of starting with 2 layers of 3/4" plywood but how finish the stainless??

 

[indianbullet]

My first post to tag meself in. Amazing idea

 

[mr_nick]

I just finished my version with the Husky 46 incher. I know the quality of the Husky is not great compared with the HF, but they were cheaper and I had a lot of store credit at HD. I studied Steevo's design on and off for a couple weeks before I got the confidence to get this project started. This is my first "real" welding project and it was such a blast. Thanks Steevo!

Here's a link to all my build photos

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o4nrfclx44vzb0f/yaEmAVJX9E

 

[dustink]

The uprights and cross pieces in the legs are 2"x2"x.120" square tube
The horizontal toolbox supports and surface supports are 1.5"x1.5"x3/16" angle.
That is all it is made of.

Im building a cabinet similar to yours and am shopping for the angle steel (cross pieces). I was holding a piece of the 1.5" angle and noticed that it bowed quite a bit across its length when i held one end up (it was 20' long though). Do you think the 1.5" angle is strong enough to last a few decades without bowing in the middle of the tool box? I did notice they had some 2" angle for sale also....

 

[mustangsean]

I just finished my version with the Husky 46 incher. I know the quality of the Husky is not great compared with the HF, but they were cheaper and I had a lot of store credit at HD. I studied Stevo's design on and off for a couple weeks before I got the confidence to get this project started. This is my first "real" welding project and it was such a blast. Thanks Stevo!

Here's a link to all my build photos

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o4nrfclx44vzb0f/yaEmAVJX9E

I like that top, did you have it made somewhere or order online?

 

[mr_nick]

I had it made by a local sheet metal company. It is 12 gauge mild steel. Size is 142" x 33.5" and there is 2" front edge and 6" back splash. Cost was $305 in Salt Lake City.

 

[Steevo]

Im building a cabinet similar to yours and am shopping for the angle steel (cross pieces). I was holding a piece of the 1.5" angle and noticed that it bowed quite a bit across its length when i held one end up (it was 20' long though). Do you think the 1.5" angle is strong enough to last a few decades without bowing in the middle of the tool box? I did notice they had some 2" angle for sale also....

It can't really bow unless the toolbox bows. You could actually support the toolbox only on the corners, but that would look odd, and make the bench less solidly constructed. The center of that horizontal angle is literally not supporting anything.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

I just finished my version with the Husky 46 incher. I know the quality of the Husky is not great compared with the HF, but they were cheaper and I had a lot of store credit at HD. I studied Steevo's design on and off for a couple weeks before I got the confidence to get this project started. This is my first "real" welding project and it was such a blast. Thanks Steevo!

Here's a link to all my build photos

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o4nrfclx44vzb0f/yaEmAVJX9E

Another great Stevo inspired bench!
I like how you added the hole in the center to push a chair in... It's always fun to see how people put their own twist on it. Nice work.


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[dustink]

Hi Steevo, it looks like you allowed yourself a 1/4" wiggle room for the toolboxes on each side in your cabinet. After building the cabinets, do you feel like you needed the whole 1/4" or do you think you could have gotten away with a smaller tighter fit?

 

[Steevo]

Hi Steevo, it looks like you allowed yourself a 1/4" wiggle room for the toolboxes on each side in your cabinet. After building the cabinets, do you feel like you needed the whole 1/4" or do you think you could have gotten away with a smaller tighter fit?

Slightly less "wiggle room" could be allowed.
If you had the boxes on hand, you could measure to much closer tolerance.
But, remember that your weld seams are about 1/8" on each end.

 

[Duker]

Slightly less "wiggle room" could be allowed.
If you had the boxes on hand, you could measure to much closer tolerance.
But, remember that your weld seams are about 1/8" on each end.

I used the 56" cabinets and I tried to cut it down to 3/16 on each side thinking that would be plenty but as Steevo mentions between the weld seam and some movement in the metal I had to shoe horn it into the frame. I built the next set of cabinets with 1/4" spacing after fighting trying to swing and drop it into the frames with a narrower gap. The gap is negligible and even with my OCD tendencies I think it is fine.

 

[Outlawmws]

Keep in mind. the gap has to account for three things:

The nominal dimensions of the boxes,
as well as anything on either the framework or the box being out of square,
as well as weld fillets.

 

[dustink]

I used the 56" cabinets and I tried to cut it down to 3/16 on each side thinking that would be plenty but as Steevo mentions between the weld seam and some movement in the metal I had to shoe horn it into the frame. I built the next set of cabinets with 1/4" spacing after fighting trying to swing and drop it into the frames with a narrower gap. The gap is negligible and even with my OCD tendencies I think it is fine.

Ooooh... 56" boxes... id love to see pics of your cabinets!

 

[alpinewhite]

Ooooh... 56" boxes... id love to see pics of your cabinets!

Won't it be too tall?

 

[Duker]

Ooooh... 56" boxes... id love to see pics of your cabinets!

I will start a thread once I finish up the hutch I am building and post the pictures there. It will be a few weeks as I am on the road for work so it has been hard to get some shop time.

Won't it be too tall?

I like a little taller bench so it works for my preference and height. With a 1 1/2" bench top it will around 38 1/2-3/4" depending upon how much I need to level the bench. My other benches are 38" and I find they are less tiring to work on than the traditional benches that are usually 34-36"

 

[Jxnatti]

Thanks that's a great idea

 

[Jxnatti]

Just wanted to add that the BRIGHT RED TESTERS model car paint (#1231) in the small bottles (not spray) will touch up any of these red US General boxes almost identical.

http://scalemodeldb.com/paintdetails/4556

Cheers!

 

[5mall5nail5]

Thanks for the inspiration Steve

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Thanks for the inspiration Steve

Another great Steve bench!

I like the wall mounted screens... I have always thought about doing that but I know all it would take is forgetting to cover it one time and sparks from the grinder pitting the screen or overspray hitting it. But being able to google web pages pages and diagrams would be awesome.

 

[Outlawmws]

Another great Steve bench!

I like the wall mounted screens... I have always thought about doing that but I know all it would take is forgetting to cover it one time and sparks from the grinder pitting the screen or overspray hitting it. But being able to google web pages pages and diagrams would be awesome.

Mount the screen and cover it with a sheet of plexi, or Lexan. "Wax" the Lexan with a silicon based "wax" (polish) and you can simply wide any paint over-spray off. And if you munge it completely, its a relatively inexpensive replacement.