HF Toolboxes Workbench - Phase 3

[jonwally]

. . . . Realize still made a mistake, re-weld cut piece back on, measure again, cut again.

 

[alpinewhite]

I'm really glad I bumped this tread at post #158. Otherwise, it'd be lost. Great work, Steevo.

 

[Dennis93]

Haha at first I got excited thinking I was your neighbor until I read the reason why you thought I was. No Sorry, I live in Va Beach, and Dennis is my real name btw. I just wouldn't use my last name anywhere on the internet. Not like it matters anyway when the CIA still knows everything I do online or call.

 

[Dennis93]

Here are a few of the reasons behind why I built mine this way:

1. The tool boxes are only about 18" deep, so any top resting on just the box(es) would not be able to be much deeper than that. A workbench frame can be much deeper, allowing a standard depth bench top.
2. If you set several rolling boxes in a row, the tops will only be as even as the variations in the floor allow. This means any top set over them will not be resting fully on all of the boxes all the time, and may "rock" or tilt as you use it. Also, if it is in a typical home garage, the floor slopes toward the door, making your bench top slope as well, which is extremely annoying when working with things that roll away.
3. The tops of the rolling tool boxes have a rim around three sides, which would require setting a wood slab or spacer inside the rim, then laying the top over that. With the rolling cabinet being 40" high on its wheels, by the time you have a good, solid top on that, your bench height would be well over 41" off the floor.
4. A steel frame, resting on leveled feet, which sit directly on the concrete floor can support a much greater load than a toolbox alone, and can do so much more solidly.
5. If you use the top of the box(es) to support a bench on which you mount a heavy vise, and then pound on things in the vise, you are beating down on the structure of the tool cabinet, which will eventually weaken or break the cabinet itself.
6. A HF tool cabinet with no wheels is a HELL of a lot cheaper than a Lista, Vidmar, Lyon or other industrial drawer cabinet, which is probably what we'd all use if we were wealthy.

Ok, this makes me understand it SO much better. That is an amazing bench you built by the way, welding is something I eventually plan on learning. For now its just brazing and soldering that I know.

4,5, and 6 are great points. I agree, for the price of the HF toolboxes its a deal, and its not like they are anything close to the garbage they otherwise sell. Its an awesome bang for the buck in my opinion.

I think however for my purposes and regarding 1,2,3 I would just build a standard bench top and place a stop at the end of where the cabinet touches the top so it doesn't roll back and sits toward the front, and use shims to make sure the countertop is level and doesn't rock.

Just another thought for you guys that don't need to pound on your table, I usually pound on stuff out on the road side to not crack my concrete or my floor if really needed.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Now you tell me?

And i "think" I figured out the problem with my poor calculations when attempting to follow your plans... I think you used 2inch tubing I used 1.5 inch tubing so I figured out my half inch mistake(s)

 

[Quijote]

Here are a few of the reasons behind why I built mine this way:

1. The tool boxes are only about 18" deep, so any top resting on just the box(es) would not be able to be much deeper than that. A workbench frame can be much deeper, allowing a standard depth bench top.
2. If you set several rolling boxes in a row, the tops will only be as even as the variations in the floor allow. This means any top set over them will not be resting fully on all of the boxes all the time, and may "rock" or tilt as you use it. Also, if it is in a typical home garage, the floor slopes toward the door, making your bench top slope as well, which is extremely annoying when working with things that roll away.
3. The tops of the rolling tool boxes have a rim around three sides, which would require setting a wood slab or spacer inside the rim, then laying the top over that. With the rolling cabinet being 40" high on its wheels, by the time you have a good, solid top on that, your bench height would be well over 41" off the floor.
4. A steel frame, resting on leveled feet, which sit directly on the concrete floor can support a much greater load than a toolbox alone, and can do so much more solidly.
5. If you use the top of the box(es) to support a bench on which you mount a heavy vise, and then pound on things in the vise, you are beating down on the structure of the tool cabinet, which will eventually weaken or break the cabinet itself.
6. A HF tool cabinet with no wheels is a HELL of a lot cheaper than a Lista, Vidmar, Lyon or other industrial drawer cabinet, which is probably what we'd all use if we were wealthy.

You are right regarding all those benefits. But for the sake of playing devil's advocate, I will counter with the advantages of not doing it that way: ;-)

-You are not making use of the fact that those boxes are design to take over a ton of load. You are now making your frame hold up the 400lbs that the box weighs + tools. So the bench's worthiness at is now up to the design, and quality of craftsmanship of whoever builds this.
-You now have a massive (size & weight) bench that will be a gigantic PITA to move if you ever have to, versus a cabinet that rolls by design.
-You had to spend a bunch of time and a non-insignificant amount of money building it.

That said, I think it's great if one trusts his fabrication skills and is pretty certain of where it will go and that it won't have to move.



I should also add that while I'm sure things will be fine, I would not make the horizontal members (which hold the entire weight to the cabinet) be completely dependent on the shear strength of the welds.

I would have made two rectangular horizontal sections with 45 miters welded together and joined them with vertical tubes between them at the corners. That way the weight of the box is not dependent on welds at all but purely the strength of the tubes.

I made a quick model of what I mean.

 

[Steevo]

I should also add that while I'm sure things will be fine, I would not make the horizontal members (which hold the entire weight to the cabinet) be completely dependent on the shear strength of the welds.
. . . .

Really?
I'd bet the weight of my entire workbench, cabinets and tools on the strength of one of those welds.

 

[Quijote]

Really?
I'd bet the weight of my entire workbench, cabinets and tools on the strength of one of those welds.

I'm sure that's the case. You seem to have excellent fabrication skills. Others may not.

My point is that if you do it the way I suggest you could hold the seams together with crazy glue and be fine.

I joke, of course, but the point is that there no direct stress on the welds.

Of course, a simple way to "correct" it is to add one more support in the front and back in the middle of the lower horizontal members. Done. Heck, just one support in the front would be plenty.

I'd hate to see an over-ambitious GJ member lose a foot if one of these things collapses.

It may be perfectly fine, but as a mechanical design engineer who designs large and dangerous test equipment, if there is a simple way to remove risk, I do it.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

I'm sure that's the case. You seem to have excellent fabrication skills. Others may not.

My point is that if you do it the way I suggest you could hold the seams together with crazy glue and be fine.

I joke, of course, but the point is that there no direct stress on the welds.

Of course, a simple way to "correct" it is to add one more support in the front and back in the middle of the lower horizontal members. Done. Heck, just one support in the front would be plenty.

I'd hate to see an over-ambitious GJ member lose a foot if one of these things collapses.

It may be perfectly fine, but as a mechanical design engineer who designs large and dangerous test equipment, if there is a simple way to remove risk, I do it.

Stevo-
thanks for all your help posting the steps and planning you put into this build... And also emailing me the detailed measurements!

Quijote- thanks for posting your design suggestions... I am new to welding and fabrication and can't wait till winter to be able to spend more time in the garage welding... I was curious with your mock up how would you level the bench? Would you add 2in tubing then add adjustable feet? And there is this other thread on welding tips or maybe its called show what you welded, lots of great info I would definitely not trust one of my welds to hold ummm (insert heavy object that everyone can relate to)

 

[Quijote]

Quijote- thanks for posting your design suggestions... I am new to welding and fabrication and can't wait till winter to be able to spend more time in the garage welding... I was curious with your mock up how would you level the bench? Would you add 2in tubing then add adjustable feet? And there is this other thread on welding tips or maybe its called show what you welded, lots of great info I would definitely not trust one of my welds to hold ummm (insert heavy object that everyone can relate to)

Yes. Just weld a short vertical section of tubing under each corner. Make sure it is tall enough to house the cap and the length of the foot thread.

 

[mcmlvif100]

I'd hate to see an over-ambitious GJ member lose a foot if one of these things collapses.

It may be perfectly fine, but as a mechanical design engineer who designs large and dangerous test equipment, if there is a simple way to remove risk, I do it.

Quijote -- Not to worry. We'll be fine.

Steevo -- I like your though process and design approach, and am envious of your fabrication skills. Would be proud to have this bench in my garage.

Warning -- Above is probably not an "expert" opinion but have learned a few things after 33 years as an engineer (BSME, BSMet) with 25+ in aerospace design, development and R&D. Lucky enough to have one of my designs on the X-45 UCAVs on display at the Smithsonian and at the USAF Museum.

 

[Dennis93]

I think Quijote definitely had the right intentions. Among the stuff I see members post on here I think it would be wise to incorporate the design suggestions from Quijote. Not all of us are close to as good as Steevo here, and I'm sure half of the ones that think they are, aren't. It's a good principle, and one that is taken into account in civil engineering too. We were taught to never design stuff if possible that relied on the shear strengths of bolts/fasteners/other hardware and use the member if at all possible. Plus this way, if it does it will show clear signs before it breaks. The shear strength of a bolt is only known after it "shears" off anyway. But using a piece at the bottom that will almost surely buckle and bend showing signs of distress is the way to go. That's why around here, code requires nails in certain applications where screws might be more maintenance free such as in decking joists unless they are structural rated screws. The reason being that nails will bend whereas *most* screws are hardened in a way that they just shear off.

 

[alpinewhite]

I should also add that while I'm sure things will be fine, I would not make the horizontal members (which hold the entire weight to the cabinet) be completely dependent on the shear strength of the welds.

I would have made two rectangular horizontal sections with 45 miters welded together and joined them with vertical tubes between them at the corners. That way the weight of the box is not dependent on welds at all but purely the strength of the tubes.

I made a quick model of what I mean.

Design opinions from experts in the field are definitely welcome. We should all learn from others' expertise in our various fields. As an engineer myself, I understand Quijote's point. His design, if you were to remove all welds, should, in theory, still stay put. This shows that none of the weight relies on welds. Rather, welds are used to fasten things together only. Houses are constructed in the same manner (99% of the time) where nails are used to fasten things together and not bear weight.

 

[sanddan]

I'm sure that's the case. You seem to have excellent fabrication skills. Others may not.

My point is that if you do it the way I suggest you could hold the seams together with crazy glue and be fine.

I joke, of course, but the point is that there no direct stress on the welds.

Of course, a simple way to "correct" it is to add one more support in the front and back in the middle of the lower horizontal members. Done. Heck, just one support in the front would be plenty.

I'd hate to see an over-ambitious GJ member lose a foot if one of these things collapses.

It may be perfectly fine, but as a mechanical design engineer who designs large and dangerous test equipment, if there is a simple way to remove risk, I do it.

"Battle of the engineers"

As a fellow engineer (25 years), I think you are over thinking this design. It's a WORK BENCH, not a bridge or piece of dangerous test equipment.

Steevo did a great job with both the design and fabrication of his bench. I also would trust a good weld in shear for holding a static load at this level.

When you build yours, feel free to show us how you went about it as all ideas are welcome.

 

[Quijote]

"Battle of the engineers"

As a fellow engineer (25 years), I think you are over thinking this design. It's a WORK BENCH, not a bridge or piece of dangerous test equipment.

No battle.

Is it more than necessary? Yeah. But why not? It's not costing any more money. It was only a suggestion. And I didn't spend hours analyzing the design. I saw it and immediately felt I would have done it such that I don't rely on welds alone. It removes all uncertainty.

Over-designing is only bad if it costs more (money and/or time) than what it provides in return.

Steevo did a great job with both the design and fabrication of his bench.

Absolutely. I said so myself.

I also would trust a good weld in shear for holding a static load at this level.

That's the key. But the bigger point is that what I am suggesting is not significantly more effort and it completely removes any what-if's.

Just my point of view. Perhaps I do too many risk assessments at work.

I think it looks great and will work well no matter what.

When you build yours, feel free to show us how you went about it as all ideas are welcome.

I won't. Sadly I don't have the room, and for now, as my garage will start construction next week, I rather keep the boxes (I plan on getting 2) on wheels until I am certain of how I will use the space.

 

[sanddan]

No battle.

Is it more than necessary? Yeah. But why not? It's not costing any more money. It was only a suggestion. And I didn't spend hours analyzing the design. I saw it and immediately felt I would have done it such that I don't rely on welds alone. It removes all uncertainty.

Over-designing is only bad if it costs more (money and/or time) than what it provides in return.



Absolutely. I said so myself.



That's the key. But the bigger point is that what I am suggesting is not significantly more effort and it completely removes any what-if's.

Just my point of view. Perhaps I do too many risk assessments at work.

I think it looks great and will work well no matter what.



I won't. Sadly I don't have the room, and for now, as my garage will start construction next week, I rather keep the boxes (I plan on getting 2) on wheels until I am certain of how I will use the space.

Mitered joints are much harder to do for most home fabricators, mostly due to the cutting of the joints, I know I don't do them even though I have a horizontal band saw. The setup time is not worth the extra effort if not needed.

It's easy to point out different design options when you are not actually building a similar project your self and have to do deal with the practical aspects of the job.

 

[Dennis93]

Well you say static loads. But I believe Steevo said his intention was to be banging on it harder than what the toolboxes are designed for.

 

[SCULPTOR]

Hi Steevo,
Great concept and execution.......what is your secret for quickly locating the tool you need
in one of the 52 drawers to choose from?
Thanks,
Rick

 

[Quijote]

Hi Steevo,
Great concept and execution.......what is your secret for quickly locating the tool you need
in one of the 52 drawers to choose from?
Thanks,
Rick

I'd like to hear other's input as well. For now, I'm going to try out magnetic, dry-erase labels.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LM2LGM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Outlawmws]

I bought those Pre-printed magnetic labels off E-Prey some years back, mostly so my kids could find things without me having to point it out. Those are sort of hit or miss for two reasons:

They don't always say what I need.

The don't always stick well to drawer fronts that aren't flat, (My husky roller for one...)

I'd opt for Those magnetic label holders (Stapled/office depot?) as a better solution, completely customizable,with an insert, and you can either mark it by hand or print the labels, if you want to get fancy.

 

[Dennis93]

I never understood why you guys just didn't type it up on word, and then put it in the handle. Just take the little plastic end piece out, and slide the laminate plastic peice on the drawer handle out, put your paper in, and voila!

Costs nothing but a sheet of paper and ink.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Just an update... This is my own phase 9ish...

Lots of cutting remeasuring and rewelding... Way too ambitious for a first welding project but its been a great learning process!
Thanks for all the inspiration.

Now I just need to prime and paint it... drop the two HF boxes in... then cut the extra off the back of the table top then use that piece to bolt on the back for a splash guard then bolt on the powerstrip..then stain the top... then bolt on a bottle opener and drink a billion beers

 

[Edward Ramirez]

How the heck do you remove the drawers from the HF rolling tool box?

 

[IONH]

How the heck do you remove the drawers from the HF rolling tool box?

When you pull them all the way out, you'll see a little plastic tab which can either be lifted up or down and then you simply pull on the shelve. Try to keep both sides (left and right) even when removing so you don't bend either set of slides.

 

[Edward Ramirez]

Thanks IONH! I went home and tried it! SO easy, I feel like an idiot. I was looking for a tab like the one on the Craftman tool box.

 

[IONH]

Thanks IONH! I went home and tried it! SO easy, I feel like an idiot. I was looking for a tab like the one on the Craftman tool box.

Glad to help. Welcome to the site.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

All done.... Thanks for all the help Stevo

 

[Steevo]

All done.... Thanks for all the help Stevo

Looks great, Hot Chop shop!
Nice work.

 

[e-tek]

I'm glad to see this thread still going strong, it's a great build.

I'm ****** amazed it's still going on!! 2 pages of the build and then 16+ pages of kudo's and questions of what to do with the space behind them and to stop stuff from going under them....

and this one is m personal fave:

Am I the only one who is wondering what the hell this guy does for a living that he can afford or need a bench like this?

Seriously? No.

 

[s_blaylock]

would someone with the HF 44" toolbox mind taking a measurement for me? I'd like to know the height of the box without the casters, thank you!

 

[s_blaylock]

would someone with the HF 44" toolbox mind taking a measurement for me? I'd like to know the height of the box without the casters, thank you!

bump, still looking for this if anyone could help, thank you!

 

[FarmerPete]

Okay, I don't know why no one else said anything about this. You got a forklift for basically free? You sir, ****.

 

[Steevo]

bump, still looking for this if anyone could help, thank you!

Did you ever get this info?

The box itself is 33-5/8" high, without casters.

 

[jgreen-fsi]

To Steevo, thanks! This is a awesome build and a great design. This is going to help me make my dream bench.

 

[FF_Chevy]

Steveo I read through your entire thread and love the build. Lots of inspiration... one question that I'm not sure I have seen asked.. what is the overhang on the face of you bench?
i.e. between bench top and toolbox face

 

[Steevo]

Steveo I read through your entire thread and love the build. Lots of inspiration... one question that I'm not sure I have seen asked.. what is the overhang on the face of you bench?
i.e. between bench top and toolbox face

The front edge of the bench overhangs the bench frame by 2", and the front of the toolboxes are 2-1/4" back from the edge. I was concerned about too much overhang making the back of the top drawers difficult to see into, or I would have gone with 4" or so.

 

[FF_Chevy]

The front edge of the bench overhangs the bench frame by 2", and the front of the toolboxes are 2-1/4" back from the edge. I was concerned about too much overhang making the back of the top drawers difficult to see into, or I would have gone with 4" or so.

Much thanks! I'm building my first workbench and designing it so that I can add two HF cabs down the road. I was gonna go with 1-1/2" on the front overhang, but I think I'll change that to 2" for a little added clamping room.

 

[Rezarf]

Great bench Steevo, it's inspired me to build similar design features in my new workbench build.

 

[Jagmandave]

Steevo, I'm in the process of designing a similar bench arrangement - well, only two boxes long - and I have one question/observation....

These tool boxes are designed to stand and carry the weight on the wheels - as such there is a reinforced area where the wheels bolt on - yet you have supported yours around the perimeter of the box - do you think this will be strong enough?

That's also the way I originally intended to do mine, but now I'm thinking I should support them under that reinforcement instead - or maybe in addition.

 

[BRIANBB]

The perimeter is actually the strongest place of the box.