High bay ceiling multivapor lights

[vdotmatrix]

Only 3 of the 12 lights are working….i bought new bulbs and I suspect the ballast(s) are shot. The light switches are low voltage/bell wire. New bulbs so far just flicker. UFO bulbs still need a regular power source controlled by the wall switch(s). Where am I headed? Replacing ballast within the fixture? 16ft up? I think these are M59 power source? Headache?

 

[manwithtools]

Just buy some LED high bay lights and replace the whole fixture and bulb. Way more efficient and hopefully lasts longer than the ones you have today.

 

[vdotmatrix]

Just buy some LED high bay lights and replace the whole fixture and bulb. Way more efficient and hopefully lasts longer than the ones you have today.

Low voltage bell wire goes to the ceiling, and that activates the high voltage to power the lights. How would you control the light with a low power wired switch as in the image? Like I said even if I bought some UFOs, there is a wiring issue.

 

[manwithtools]

Get a dimmable LED High Bay and turn it off and on from a dimmer wired to the low voltage circuit. Like these: Sunco UFO High Bay LED Lights, 21000 Lumens or you could use a small relay in the fixture box to turn on and off the AC power to the LED.

EDIT: I just remembered the dimming circuit on those LEDs is for dimming only, not on/off control. It will turn them all the way down, but they still will be consuming power as I understand it. So, disregard the advice I typed in the first sentence.

 

[mm08822]

Go up into ceiling and jump the relay/contactor(s) and check for voltage out to the fixtures.

Did the 9 fixtures stop all at once or?

Which lights are on which switch?

 

[BillK]

Can you get a model number off one of the present fixtures ? Do you know if the 120 volts is switched in the fixture or is there a separate relay panel somewhere in the ceiling ? If the 120 is switched in the fixture you can probably buy LED replacement bulbs that bypass the ballast. Hard to say for sure without knowing what the present fixtures actually are.

 

[vdotmatrix]

Go up into ceiling and jump the relay/contactor(s) and check for voltage out to the fixtures.

Did the 9 fixtures stop all at once or?

Which lights are on which switch?

Four wall switches, each switch controls four lights.

 

[sparky 1971]

I doubt the relays are part of the fixtures, whether there is one relay per switch or one per light with each switch controlling four of them is up for debate. If there isn't a relay cabinet, my money would be on one per fixture mounted to a knockout on the ceiling box. Based on the OP it seems that all of the fixtures either work or flicker which tells me you have voltage. You should be able to change the fixtures and leave the switching alone.

We have an area that at one time was where the rich people lived and a lot of those houses are full of lv switching. There's usually a cabinet next to the panel stuffed full of relays for the main level(s) with no markings whatsoever and the basement fixtures will have the relays mounted to the fixture box.

 

[mm08822]

We have an area that at one time was where the rich people lived and a lot of those houses are full of lv switching. There's usually a cabinet next to the panel stuffed full of relays for the main level(s) with no markings whatsoever and the basement fixtures will have the relays mounted to the fixture box.

What happened to them?? ?

 

[sparky 1971]

What happened to them?? ?

I dunno or care. Those houses are, for the most part, dumps but it's easy to see that at one time they were really nice. I do know I haven't been in that area for several years. My reputation for being too honest probably precedes me.

Most likely, they got tired of having to get the lights fixed because of the switching.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What happened to them?? ?

The 2 major LV lighting controls (in the '50s and '60s) were Touch Plate and GE.
They're still in business and their relays never changed.
They have different methods of operation.
Touch Plate has latching relays with a 2 wire control (push on / push off). GE has a 3 wire control with separate coils for off and on.

 

[vdotmatrix]

I doubt the relays are part of the fixtures, whether there is one relay per switch or one per light with each switch controlling four of them is up for debate. If there isn't a relay cabinet, my money would be on one per fixture mounted to a knockout on the ceiling box. Based on the OP it seems that all of the fixtures either work or flicker which tells me you have voltage. You should be able to change the fixtures and leave the switching alone.

We have an area that at one time was where the rich people lived and a lot of those houses are full of lv switching. There's usually a cabinet next to the panel stuffed full of relays for the main level(s) with no markings whatsoever and the basement fixtures will have the relays mounted to the fixture box.

I am going to go up to one light that had no bulb and nk reflector and see if I can take it apart to get a part number off the box/fixture jn the ceiling. I will also look for a relay box next to the panel..but everything looks like a regular circuit breaker box… more later if I don’t fall off the ladder and end up in the hospital.

 

[manwithtools]

I am going to go up to one light that had no bulb and nk reflector and see if I can take it apart to get a part number off the box/fixture jn the ceiling. I will also look for a relay box next to the panel..but everything looks like a regular circuit breaker box… more later if I don’t fall off the ladder and end up in the hospital.

I was going to suggest - rent a scissor lift for this project...

 

[vdotmatrix]

No relay box. At first they glowed kinda red then later two of the three stopped flickering but never quite reached full intensity with the one in back corner still faintly red. The other image is what full intensity looks like. These images are not color balanced so color not accurate.

 

[American Locomotive]

Metal Halide fixturs often have a capacitor inside that goes bad. I had a few MH lights that did similar things, and changing the capacitor brought them back. But MH bulbs are such a hassle to deal with and have terrible light color, that I'm not sure it's really even worth the effort to investigate that far. I eventually just gutted the fixtures, tossed the ballasts out, and put a giant screw in LED high bay bulb (NOT a corn cob bulb) into the fixture. Huge improvement.

 

[sparky 1971]

This is just a guess, but it's based on previous experience so take it for what it's worth. Someone either cut a hole in the drywall and put a high bay through it or the lights were already there and the drywall got installed around the fixtures; that part doesn't matter though. Those lights are probably hanging from a hook in the attic and there's a cord to a junction box for each one. They might be hard wired, they might be plugged in but once again, that doesn't matter. The relays are probably in the attic; there may be one attached to each junction box for each light, there may be one relay controlling four lights. The relays might be completely separate and in a box all by themselves but they are there somewhere and it's probably going to require a trip into the attic to figure it out. And if I'm right about the way they are hung, it's not only going to require a trip to the attic to remove the light, it's going to take two people; one to undo everything above and another on a ladder or lift to take the light down. Earlier this spring I replaced six or eight 400 watt high bays in a pole barn where the ceiling metal had been cut around the reflector of each light. Those were plugged in so that part was easy but the guy below on the scissor lift had to push the light up so the attic rat could take it off the hook and let it down. That's probably a job that should wait until November when it's not hotter than the gates of hell.

 

[vdotmatrix]

This is just a guess, but it's based on previous experience so take it for what it's worth. Someone either cut a hole in the drywall and put a high bay through it or the lights were already there and the drywall got installed around the fixtures; that part doesn't matter though. Those lights are probably hanging from a hook in the attic and there's a cord to a junction box for each one. They might be hard wired, they might be plugged in but once again, that doesn't matter. The relays are probably in the attic; there may be one attached to each junction box for each light, there may be one relay controlling four lights. The relays might be completely separate and in a box all by themselves but they are there somewhere and it's probably going to require a trip into the attic to figure it out. And if I'm right about the way they are hung, it's not only going to require a trip to the attic to remove the light, it's going to take two people; one to undo everything above and another on a ladder or lift to take the light down. Earlier this spring I replaced six or eight 400 watt high bays in a pole barn where the ceiling metal had been cut around the reflector of each light. Those were plugged in so that part was easy but the guy below on the scissor lift had to push the light up so the attic rat could take it off the hook and let it down. That's probably a job that should wait until November when it's not hotter than the gates of hell.

Theattic……i thought i saw a crawl space maybe last year…..scary. It was 76 today. We built this in the late 80s i think…uggggg…i spent a few hours going up and down the ladder.

 

[vdotmatrix]

Metal Halide fixturs often have a capacitor inside that goes bad. I had a few MH lights that did similar things, and changing the capacitor brought them back. But MH bulbs are such a hassle to deal with and have terrible light color, that I'm not sure it's really even worth the effort to investigate that far. I eventually just gutted the fixtures, tossed the ballasts out, and put a giant screw in LED high bay bulb (NOT a corn cob bulb) into the fixture. Huge improvement.

I just need to figure out how these are attached to the ceiling….the idea of crawl space and attic is wildly exciting….if it is possible to just switch out a capacitor without shocking myself it would be fun to try but i first have to see what is in that box or even see a model number…so far the light bulbs point to M59.

 

[sparky 1971]

Theattic……i thought i saw a crawl space maybe last year…..scary. It was 76 today. We built this in the late 80s i think…uggggg…i spent a few hours going up and down the ladder.

If you built the house then you should at least have a vague recollection of the lights.

 

[sparky 1971]

I just need to figure out how these are attached to the ceiling….the idea of crawl space and attic is wildly exciting….if it is possible to just switch out a capacitor without shocking myself it would be fun to try but i first have to see what is in that box or even see a model number…so far the light bulbs point to M59.

If it's the kind of light I think it is, you're going to have to take it down to change anything. Can you at least poke your head through the scuttle hole and see a light?

 

[vdotmatrix]

If you built the house then you should at least have a vague recollection of the lights.

Father in law is 95 and in a nursing home.

 

[vdotmatrix]

If it's the kind of light I think it is, you're going to have to take it down to change anything. Can you at least poke your head through the scuttle hole and see a light?

Tommorow is another day.

 

[sparky 1971]

Father in law is 95 and in a nursing home.

Then I take it that "we" isn't you. Nursing homes are horrible places, my mom is 80 and in a memory care nursing home.

 

[bluedog225]

Maybe some young kids you can send up there to take pics?

 

[vdotmatrix]

Maybe some young kids you can send up there to take pics?

I am going up tomorrow. The one picture i drew on, i think I can see the studs in the ceiling.

 

[vdotmatrix]

Then I take it that "we" isn't you. Nursing homes are horrible places, my mom is 80 and in a memory care nursing home.

He is in a wonderful long term care facility. He is well cared for and his level of care is very expensive. A very nice pleasant caring place.

 

[vdotmatrix]

I just need to figure out how these are attached to the ceiling….the idea of crawl space and attic is wildly exciting….if it is possible to just switch out a capacitor without shocking myself it would be fun to try but i first have to see what is in that box or even see a model number…so far the light bulbs point to M59.

I will be able to reach this closest of lights to the door. I remember it is quite large up there and i didn't want ti crawl around up there but I will check it out tomorrow.

 

[sparky 1971]

I will be able to reach this closest of lights to the door. I remember it is quite large up there and i didn't want ti crawl around up there but I will check it out tomorrow.

Take your phone with you and get a picture or 12.

 

[mm08822]

Plan on some 3/4" plywood or 2x6/2x8's to kneel/sit on while you mess with the light. Easier to work on stuff when you're not blowing out your knees or doing the balancing act.

 

[vdotmatrix]

i found the relays. They come or go to 12 or 14 ga wire panel adjacent and then on to each light. I am going to open the relay box to see whats in there after i cut power. It is hot up there.

 

[sparky 1971]

Did you get in there far enough to figure out how the lights are hung?

That looks like spray foam; if it is and if the insulators didn't put something around the fixtures to keep the foam off, it's gonna be a battle getting them out.

Nevermind. It looks like fiberglass bats now that I am looking at it on the desktop.

 

[vdotmatrix]

One last test is to remove a perfectly working bulb and put it on another fixture to make sure it isnt the bulbs. Funny to See Carrol on your avatar, he went to my school in Montana!

 

[vdotmatrix]

Did you get in there far enough to figure out how the lights are hung?

That looks like spray foam; if it is and if the insulators didn't put something around the fixtures to keep the foam off, it's gonna be a battle getting them out.

Nevermind. It looks like fiberglass bats now that I am looking at it on the desktop.

This gets complicated. When I get above a working light fixture, and move the insulation, I get to a wooden box. I hope this fixture is accessed from below to bypass the ballast. I will need a scissor lift.

 

[sparky 1971]

The fixtures need to come down in order to access the ballast. It's in the white rectangular box and that box needs to come apart. To be honest, I don't see the point of going to that much work and having the same POS light. I would be looking at complete replacement but in the end, it's not my shop.

This gets complicated. When I get above a working light fixture, and move the insulation, I get to a wooden box. I hope this fixture is accessed from below to bypass the ballast. I will need a scissor lift.

 

[vdotmatrix]

The fixtures need to come down in order to access the ballast. It's in the white rectangular box and that box needs to come apart. To be honest, I don't see the point of going to that much work and having the same POS light. I would be looking at complete replacement but in the end, it's not my shop.

16 ft up. If i can open the white box snip ballast wires and reconnect wires to the socket it is done. It is already installed and in place. No easy fix. The light will be different with LED source. And there are 12 of these #&@$*#&.

 

[matt_i]

So much for wire labels....🫪

Might be a really good time to make a wiring diagram and label everything top and bottom.

Also they make A frame ladders 12' tall. One can rent them or buy at an auction for less than new.

 

[sparky 1971]

16 ft up. If i can open the white box snip ballast wires and reconnect wires to the socket it is done.

The screws that both the two halves together go in from the top so it's doubtful that you can do much without taking the light down.

It is already installed and in place. No easy fix.

It might not be as bad as it looks, but it's going to require two people. Someone on a lift or, if that person is strong enough a ladder could work. The other person in the attic takes the nut off that's going through the wood. It's probably a hook that the fixture is hanging on; when the nut comes loose, the guy below gets the entire weight of the fixture and with the ballast, they aren't light.

Or, cut some drywall so the fixture can be swung around a little and pick it off the hook.

The light will be different with LED source. And there are 12 of these #&@$*#&.

If you're thinking LED corn bulbs, the odds are that you will be very disappointed.

Good luck.

 

[vdotmatrix]

The screws that both the two halves together go in from the top so it's doubtful that you can do much without taking the light down.

It might not be as bad as it looks, but it's going to require two people. Someone on a lift or, if that person is strong enough a ladder could work. The other person in the attic takes the nut off that's going through the wood. It's probably a hook that the fixture is hanging on; when the nut comes loose, the guy below gets the entire weight of the fixture and with the ballast, they aren't light.

Or, cut some drywall so the fixture can be swung around a little and pick it off the hook.

If you're thinking LED corn bulbs, the odds are that you will be very disappointed.

Good luck.

What a @#$&*$ nightmare. I will rent a sissor lift once I can figure out how it is hung. That one bolt/nut in the center of that blasted box is a hint.

i saw something, a UFO. But j also saw 150w led bulbs j thought last night

 

[sparky 1971]

What a @#$&*$ nightmare. I will rent a sissor lift once I can figure out how it is hung. That one bolt/nut in the center of that blasted box is a hint.

That probably isn't a bolt with a nut on it, it's probably a threaded hook. If it has a safety snap it's gonna be a b!+¢π to get down without taking the nut off from the attic. I'm going to take a guess that there's an outlet screwed to the bottom of the wood that the light plugs in to.

i saw something, a UFO. But j also saw 150w led bulbs j thought last night

I'd be replacing the lights with a good ufo. The 150 watt lamps were probably 150 watt replacement, but there isn't anything I know of that would screw in to the same fixture and come anywhere near the kind of light you would get from the metal halides.