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High Lift conversion question

JimTMich

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Apr 22, 2016
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I would like to do a 18" high lift to get the door out of the way for a 4 post lift.
Question, since I'm only raising 18" should I use 400-54 drums which are good for 54" of lift or standard drums. It seems like the 400-54 drums would provide too much lift when the door is up and might mess with the garage door opener torque sensing...

Thanks
 
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RWorth

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Aug 29, 2016
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the lift torque is not going to change much if you are just raising the storage point of the door, the door will still open the same amount. The only problem I see is having enough cable, you may have to add 18" of cable to each side. the amount of cable it stores on the drum should remain the same.
 
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JimTMich

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Thanks, I did the conversion and it worked well enough. I'm putting the liftmaster 8500 on and we'll see if it's good enough. I made new cables.
 

matt_i

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the lift torque is not going to change much if you are just raising the storage point of the door, the door will still open the same amount. The only problem I see is having enough cable, you may have to add 18" of cable to each side. the amount of cable it stores on the drum should remain the same.

I disagree with the second part of this. If the horizontal track is raised compared to original, the bottom "peg" on the door that holds the loops of cable have to rise higher than they used to. to get to the horizontal track. As such the extra cable has to go somewhere and that is on the drum. So if the drum is marginally large diameter & width to hold the required cable in initial setting, then the drums could potentially have to be replaced with a higher horizontal track.

to the OP: glad you got it worked out :)
 

Radix2

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I disagree with the second part of this. If the horizontal track is raised compared to original, the bottom "peg" on the door that holds the loops of cable have to rise higher than they used to. to get to the horizontal track. As such the extra cable has to go somewhere and that is on the drum. So if the drum is marginally large diameter & width to hold the required cable in initial setting, then the drums could potentially have to be replaced with a higher horizontal track.

to the OP: glad you got it worked out :)

Generally speaking, the pegs go the same distance if you have 4 feet of high lift or none. You open the door till it is at the top of the opening, no need to keep running it up the tracks far past the point it is already open.

You need more cable for high lift not because you move the door farther, but because the drums are farther above the door opening.
 

eastbaysubaru

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Thanks, I did the conversion and it worked well enough. I'm putting the liftmaster 8500 on and we'll see if it's good enough. I made new cables.

So did you use the 400-54 drums? I've raised mine roughly 26" so it seems likely that I'll need them. Just wanted to confirm the route you took.

-Brian
 

upndown

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If everything is calculated correctly, you run the risk of slack cables. Every door has a normal open position no mater the height. That is determined by the number of turns on The spring to get it to balance not by moving up the cable thimble.
 
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JimTMich

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I did not use the 400-54 drums. I added one more turn to the spring. Before I did the conversion, the spring had lost enough tension that the door felt really heavy when opening by hand. The door is about 160 lbs. So some of that one turn was just to compensate existing conditions. Right now, the door does not become weightless mid way open. It does become weightless where I want to store it so it seems it's good enough. If I added the 400-54 drums, then the spring would have to be wound more to get the same lift when closed, then the door would become weightless in the middle would would try to store the door higher as there would be more torque at storage position. So for the 18" lift with a 160 lb door and whatever spring is up there, it seems like I'm better off without the 400-54 drums.
 
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JimTMich

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The conversion wasn't quite finished in this picture. I did move everything back a little to get a faster "beak away". I had to do this due to some architectural features on the face of the door.
 

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JimTMich

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The LiftMaster 8500 went in smoothly and works very smoothly. This is with the original cable drums.
 

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tdott

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Jim, just wanted to confirm did you re-use the same springs? You didn't need to buy new ones?

Did you buy the conversion kit from DDM? or did you put it together yourself?
 
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JimTMich

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Just did it myself with no conversation kit using the original spring since I only lifted the door about 18" higher than normal.
 

tdott

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Just did it myself with no conversation kit using the original spring since I only lifted the door about 18" higher than normal.

Ok thank you for confirming, I need to raise my door about 18" also and two estimates so far are in the $1500 range, not including the cost to install a wall mount opener.

I'm sure I can handle mostly everything with ease, the only thing I didn't want to deal with was the spring, but for that much money, I will damn well figure it out if I have to.
 
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JimTMich

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Be deliberate with the spring, read about it, treat it with respect. It's not physically demanding. This was my first time touching a door spring and it went fine. Didn't take long to unwind or wind. I counted 1/4 turns while unwinding it and simply added another full turn when I rewound it. Later I added another half turn to try to make the door as light as possible. The extra 1/2 was too much as the door didn't want to stay closed so I removed 1/4 turn.
 

tdott

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Be deliberate with the spring, read about it, treat it with respect. It's not physically demanding. This was my first time touching a door spring and it went fine. Didn't take long to unwind or wind. I counted 1/4 turns while unwinding it and simply added another full turn when I rewound it. Later I added another half turn to try to make the door as light as possible. The extra 1/2 was too much as the door didn't want to stay closed so I removed 1/4 turn.

Thanks for the tips, Yes I have been reading up and watched several videos, it doesn't seem as daunting as I initially thought now that I understand it. I agree, you just have to treat it with respect, take safety precautions and have the right tool for the job which isn't even that expensive, same with all the parts that could be needed. I will try your method with the spring, if that doesn't work i'll get someone to get the correct spring and install it and balance the door. That can't cost nearly as much at the $1500 they quoted to do all the work.

Did you purchase your parts from Home Depot/Lowes? or did you have to order them online?
 
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JimTMich

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I bought a garage door opener hanger kit at Menards. This included some angle iron and nuts and bolts. I cut the track off the horizontal and used that for the vertical high lift part, so I bought no track. To splice the tracks together, Menards had the correct bolts with a very thin head so the wheels in the track wouldn't hit them. It would have been less work to buy the right brackets between the wall and the track to support the high lift section, but timing forced me to make these brackets out of some scrap metal. Winding bars are simply 1/2" steel rod. I made new cables since I couldn't find pre made cables locally. The existing cables were 1/8" so I bought a 50' roll of 1/8" cable for $10, some aluminum ends and a crimp tool for $20 all at Menards.
 
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tdott

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Thanks Jim! I will be checking out what HomeDepot/Lowes has to offer, no idea if they will have anything. There doesn't appear to be any Menards here in South FL. I'll try to find any other hardware stores then if I come up empty i'll probably have to order online.
 

tdott

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I modified my door height myself for less than $50 in materials.
Check out the thread below:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236236

Thanks for that, that actually sounds like a better solution and looks like it can even be done without removing/touching the spring other than when you go to make adjustments to it.

My problem now is finding someone to buy some track and hardware to join the pieces together. HD/Lowes had nothing.
 

matt_i

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Just wanted to add some hopefully useful info to this thread. I got my high lift working this week. My reason is slightly different, I have a 7 foot door that separates two parts of my shop building, after some mods it has an 8 foot header with a removable panel. The reason for this chicanery is to allow forklifts to pass thru moving machinery into the new section of the shop which should be infrequent. I didn't want to spend for a new 8 foot door at this time.

Door opening, tyvek wrap on the removable panel as it was outdoors for a time.


With the panel removed.


First step is to raise the "driveshaft" and bearing brackets upward, in my case I chose 12" from original.


Horizontal tracks raised the same amount and leveled...not pictured, but one end attaches to the bottom of the bearing bracket. I made the two steel brackets, just 1/4" x 1-1/2" steel welded at the corner. Basically this bracket supports the upforce from the steel cables which is pulling the driveshaft down. I took the horizontal track and spaced it out from the wall 3/4". Previously the horizontal angle was tight to the plane of the wall. This allows a short taper in the track to prevent the door from rubbing on the inside of the wall before it gets into the radius.


Section of new track (I bought a generic straight piece) makes up the difference. I used 1/4" drilled holes and button head screws temporarily to allow for adjustments. I have the spline-shouldered low-profile track screws in stock but didn't want to commit t those until I had it working. These are just fine and don't rub for setup purposes.


Flat stock bracket to join short track and radius. Just a series of drilled holes to allow everything to connect. The aluminum was "in stock" and could be much lighter gauge.


Another view of upper bracket and track.


New cables have to be made. From McMAster Carr I sourced 1/8" steel cable, 1/8" Nicopress copper "oval sleeves" and 1/8" Nicopress stop sleeves. I happen to own the Nicopress crimping pliers, so this can be done here. Without the pliers I would have attempted to approach a garage door company and see if they would make up the cables for me.


Stop sleeve in cable sheave.


After this its a matter of taking the slack out of both cables (clamp drive tube with vice grip braced against drywall) until the cable is taut under hand torque. The opposite side requires the sheave setscrews to be loosened and retightened once the sheave is clocked by hand. Then time to wind the spring. I had written down 7 turns previously when I unwound it the first time. This took some playing around but took 9 turns to get working acceptably and not have slack at the very top of the range. Cable sheaves have just enough groove in it to take up the additional cable...recall the bottom of my door must lift 12" higher than previous, so the cable sheave has to takeup more.

Its currently working great, track is smooth and no issues I can detect. Just wanted to illustrate that minimal materials are required as stated by a previous poster. Its more about time but there's nothing exotic here other than the crimping pliers for the cable sleeves, and this part could be outsourced pretty easily.
 
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Kab

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Feb 26, 2013
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Get another bid. I just had one installed this past week. New 8500 opener, new springs and drums. Everything installed for $850. I had bids from $850 - $1600. All quoting same equipment.
 

tdott

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Jan 1, 2016
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South FL / Toronto
Finally got around to raising my tracks using the method Mister68 used.

Just a warning for those with Double garage hurricane doors, they are heavy mofos and after the track conversion, the door can't be lifted easily. I tried adding a few turns to the springs but after 1/4 turn they were at the max and couldn't turn any more.

I have a guy coming to take a look and hopefully all he has to do is install stronger springs.

20171005_095645.jpg
 
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