High Quality Drill Bits? Machine Length Metric? "Mechanic's" Length?

[PretendMechanic]

I'm in need of a high quality drill bit set. Norseman's Magnum line has peaked my interest.

All my work is automotive and I believe machine length is better for my applications as it would allow better strength, accuracy, and access. I do a lot of aftermarket custom modifying, and all regular maintenance and repairs, heavy hobby use. Most parts/mods I install/repair are supposed to be "bolt-on" off the shelf, but we all know how that can go sometimes. Due to the nature of my vehicles and hobby, I often have to doohickey something together to work temporarily till a part/tool arrives or the vehicle can be limped home and a proper repair can be done. I use drill bits often, but have always had generic retail jobber length garbage.

Have a preference for investing in metric tools, if using aftermarket hardware I use metric fasteners. Vehicles are almost all imports.

I have gone through Norseman's catalogue, and noticed they offer metric sizes only in the longer "jobber" bit lengths.

Norseman also offers an in between "Mechanic's Length" bit set. Not sure if this length designation in the drill bit universe was created for automotive type mechanics. I learned these bit length terms just today.

Also, I will be purchasing a separate set of machine length left hand drill bits for bolt extraction, therefore this set will not be used in that application.

So that leaves me with a few questions:
-Are "Mechanic's Length" better suited for my "automotive" applications rather than machine length? Why?
-Does anyone manufacture metric machine length drill bits as high or higher quality than Norseman's Magnum series?
-Are there any other manufacturers that offer drill bits as high quality as Norseman's Magnum line (in general)?

Sets currently under consideration, for your viewing pleasure:
-Norseman Magnum Machine Length 29pc SAE set
-Norseman Magnum Mechanic's Length 29pc SAE set
-Norseman Magnum Mechanic's Length 29pc SAE 3/8" Reduced Shank set
-Norseman Magnum Jobber Length 25pc Metric Set

Just looking to purchase a single set!

 

[Legion Prime]

You can't go wrong with Norseman but if you're looking for other options there are plenty of other CONUS manufacturers. Viking is made by Norseman, CleLine, Latrobe, Ohio Drill & Tool, Cleveland Twist, Michigan Twist Drill, Rocky Mountain Twist Drill and I'm sure others but those are just a few off the top of my head.
Mechanic's length is just a size between Jobber & Screw Machine. The shorter a bit is the less flex and vibration it has. If you're using a hand drill it's not really going to make a difference (apart from clearance issues) but with stationary use such as in a drill press, lathe or *Drumroll* screw machine, a shorter length will give a straighter more accurate hole at the expense of the depth you can drill. I'm sure others can expand more but that's the basics off the top of my head.

 

[Tallpilot]

Machine length are a decent amount shorter than mechanic’s length. One big advantage of mechanic length is the 3 flats on the shank which keeps them more stable in a hand drill, especially one with a keyless chuck. Since it’s hard to get the drill press into the engine bay or under a truck frame, I think that is their biggest selling point for automotive use plus they are long enough to make a through hole in more situations than the machine length.

 

[Jlarson]

My favorite all around index, especially in my service truck, is the mechanics length with the flats. But most of my drilling is on battery drills with keyless chucks and mag drills.

In the shop on the drill press I use screw length or jobbers if I need to get around something on a part or whatever.

 

[Legion Prime]

Over here metric drill in anything other than jobber length appear to be rather difficult to find. However I did find these but I don't know what shipping will be or anything about the manufacturer.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00MDIFPFC/

 

[dr_clyde]

I buy mostly Norseman/CTD drills, I find they work the best. I also buy some PTD and the occasional Cle-line. Guhring is also very good.

You will find the most selection of drills from an industrial machine shop supply. MSC should have everything you want and more.

Jobber length drills are the most common. This is a typical, straight shank, bog standard drill length.

Screw machine length is more common in machine tools, as they deflect less and don't often need a spotting drill. I prefer these for most of my drilling and is what I stock. Rarely are you drilling very deep, so these work best for 90% of my machine shop work. Plus I don't have to crank the knee on the mill a lot, as they are closer to the length of a tap.

Mechanic's length is a bit shorter than jobber, not much. The primary feature is the 3 flats on the shank for use in a cordless drill or air drill. I have some of these, they are nice for hand work.

 

[DFB]

Had my hands on a set those Norseman bits (Mechanics) yesterday to drill new mounting holes a drum brake backing plate we were modifiying for my buddy's 5th wheel car hauler trailer.


High quality set of bits very sharp, first time for me using them.

I did have to loan him my M12 Fuel drill though as his battery drill only had had a 3/8" chuck

 

[PretendMechanic]

So should I basically stop looking for metric screw machine drill bits? Really don't want to import something questionable, looking for something with a proven track record. Guhring appears to be German, I'll look through their catalogue.

Really looking for bang for buck though, I'm good with Norseman's pricing of around $100 for a decent sized set. Does anyone significantly beat their price points with equal quality?

I'm pretty much decided on screw machine length. Most the time I will be using these in a M12 fuel battery drill. Have yet to purchase, still deciding between the hammer variant and the regular fuel variant. Though I hear the hammer variant has more run-out, more research need be done.

Jobber length is basically out for me, only reason I'd consider mechanic's length is if there is a significant usable advantage for me in having the three flats on the shank. I assume most hand drill chucks are split in three, and that is the reason for the design? To prevent slippage? Anything else I'm missing in regards to how the three flats are helpful?

Looks like Norseman, CTD, and Viking are all the same products? Any other companies that are also Norseman products? Not stuck on Norseman, they just get discussed a lot on these forums and seem to be well liked.

dr_clyde, would you say Norseman/Viking/CTD perform better than PTD, Cle-line and Guhring?

Thanks for the all the input so far, have lots of material here to base my searches on now, though I think we've done a pretty good job of narrowing this down already.

 

[Whitworth]

I'm pretty much decided on screw machine length. Most the time I will be using these in a M12 fuel battery drill. Have yet to purchase, still deciding between the hammer variant and the regular fuel variant. Though I hear the hammer variant has more run-out, more research need be done.

Jobber length is basically out for me, only reason I'd consider mechanic's length is if there is a significant usable advantage for me in having the three flats on the shank. I assume most hand drill chucks are split in three, and that is the reason for the design? To prevent slippage? Anything else I'm missing in regards to how the three flats are helpful?

Looks like Norseman, CTD, and Viking are all the same products? Any other companies that are also Norseman products? Not stuck on Norseman, they just get discussed a lot on these forums and seem to be well liked.

Way overthinking this for handheld drilling. Any drill bit will do. If hung up on a particular brand, buy a jobber length drill bit set and cut them down.

 

[dr_clyde]

So should I basically stop looking for metric screw machine drill bits? Really don't want to import something questionable, looking for something with a proven track record. Guhring appears to be German, I'll look through their catalogue.

Really looking for bang for buck though, I'm good with Norseman's pricing of around $100 for a decent sized set. Does anyone significantly beat their price points with equal quality?

I'm pretty much decided on screw machine length. Most the time I will be using these in a M12 fuel battery drill. Have yet to purchase, still deciding between the hammer variant and the regular fuel variant. Though I hear the hammer variant has more run-out, more research need be done.

Jobber length is basically out for me, only reason I'd consider mechanic's length is if there is a significant usable advantage for me in having the three flats on the shank. I assume most hand drill chucks are split in three, and that is the reason for the design? To prevent slippage? Anything else I'm missing in regards to how the three flats are helpful?

Looks like Norseman, CTD, and Viking are all the same products? Any other companies that are also Norseman products? Not stuck on Norseman, they just get discussed a lot on these forums and seem to be well liked.

dr_clyde, would you say Norseman/Viking/CTD perform better than PTD, Cle-line and Guhring?

Thanks for the all the input so far, have lots of material here to base my searches on now, though I think we've done a pretty good job of narrowing this down already.

If you are going to use a hand drill, get a mechanic's length drill. The 3 flats are very nice on the shank, and you'll get more use out of them.

If you are going to be using them in a drill press, mill or lathe, get screw machine length. You can get these with the 3 flats as well, I have a set from Lawson.

The Guhring drills are good quality.

I just buy CTD drills because they work very well and are what my industrial supply carries, so they are available.

 

[PretendMechanic]

I don't want to waste my time cutting down jobber length bits. Yes, they will be used mostly in a hand drill, but also often in a press.

Are there any other brands that offer better value than Norseman/CTD/Viking? Or is that as good as it gets for pricing?

My perfect bit set would be machine length, 3 flats, and metric, but I realize now I won't be able to find a quality metric set. Will look into Lawson. I buy everything online so no restriction there. Don't mind importing, as long as it's known quality.

 

[PT Doc]

Buy Norseman and don’t look back. Buying cheap bits will cost you in the end. Either money, frustration or damage to what you tried to drill. Every try getting a small broken bit out of steel or aluminum?

 

[American Locomotive]

I love my Norseman drills - extremely sharp and long lasting. Some of them are honestly even too sharp for hand drilling in steel - mainly the larger sizes. They just want to bite in and pull the drill out of your hands.

However that brings me to my next point: Hand drilling into steel destroys bits - especially larger ones if they snag. I can smoke a drill bit with a single hole if it snags just as it's about to break though. That same bit in a drill press would do hundreds of holes in the same material without issue. I know when I have to drill a hole in awkward place by hand, I don't reach for my Norsemans. I get my old crappy set and give the bits a quick sharpening on a grinder.

 

[PretendMechanic]

hey just want to bite in and pull the drill out of your hands.

However that brings me to my next point: Hand drilling into steel destroys bits - especially larger ones if they snag. I can smoke a drill bit with a single hole if it snags just as it's about to break though. That same bit in a drill press would do hundreds of holes in the same material without issue. I know when I have to drill a hole in awkward place by hand, I don't reach for my Norsemans. I get my old crappy set and give the bits a quick sharpening on a grinder.

This is a rather interesting point, though I have never damaged a bit (to my knowledge) in this way, it is something that happens every once in a while.

Lawson screw machine length with three flats peaked my interest, browsing their catalogue shows it's the "Regency Tuff-Stub" line, problem is, I cannot find any of Lawson's products for purchase online.

Interesting to note their other screw machine drill line, "Supertanium XL-125", actually is described as "for hand drilling in close quarters" and "resists grabbing". No three flats from what I can tell from the pictures though.

They also make a nice looking left hand set in the XL-125 screw machine length.

Really liking what I can see from Lawson, where the hell do I buy them?

What is their pricing like per 29 piece set?

 

[usdemt]

So much bad advice in this thread the machinists just gave up the challenge.

Length had nothing to do with the flats in the side. Mechanics vs jobber etc you can get them in all combinations of finishes and with or without flats. Some manufacturers maybe only offer a certain combo but for example you can get a V6 in a Kia and a Ford Pickup they are not mutually exclusive.

I have gone almost to all Norseman twist bits. I install equipment in police cars. The contract I am currently working on involves 68 docks mounted to the consoles of the cars. That means 272 1/4 holes as the dock takes 4 holes. I have over 100 of these to do this month so over 400 holes this month alone. At the 1/4 hole size I have a fair bit of experience when you compound that over the past few years. All have to be hand drilled to the console that is in the vehicle.

When it comes to hand drilling shorter is better. I prefer the Norseman gold mechanic length in general and especially for steel but my current contract is all aluminum consoles and it sticks and binds to the gold much worse so I use the bright finish jobber length ones. Also the gold coating is way overkill for the soft aluminum. The bright HSS Norsemans have been way better and I have not hesitated to drill them into steal when they are handy as they are still very good. Mind you I am paid by the job not the hour and am self employed. I have use the same 2 norseman sets for the last year with no issue and I keep using the same 4 or 5 bits most of the time. The 17/64 gold(mechanic with 3 flats) and bright (jobber without flats) that I use have each drilled hundreds if not thousands of holes before I throw them or sharpen.

I keep a set of the Norseman cryo whatever fancy red case bits they sell on my drill press at the shop and still amazed by what they will do.

It all comes down to feed rate, pressure, right tool for the material, and pro tip I use 17/64 to drill the 1/4 holes. It allows me to use a marker to mark it and then gives me room to screw up without center punching or using center mark punches to mark the holes but the combined clamping pressure of the bolts is way more then the mount needs or the console could even handle.

The main take away is that its more the user and less the bit, and any good quality bit made for the job will do the job over and over without issue. Also I buy mine from HJE, great deals for buying whatever you want in singles or in packs. They have the bright HSS bits in an amazing deal with a Huot index with over 200 bits for a great deal. I bought it just for the index and to have the back ups.

 

[Steve_P]

I have the Norseman magnum mechanics and the jobber sets. If I could only have one set it would be mechanics because of the three flats (on all but the smallest sizes) and mostly using a hand drill.