Higher quality air conditioners

[bluedog225]

Does anyone have any experience with better air-conditioning systems.

By better I mean above the consumer level stuff.

I see some websites and flyers for harsh duty or heavy duty or commercial mini split systems. I’m certain they cost more. And I suspect the quality is better. While the efficiency may not be there. But who knows.?

We spend a lot of time discussing Mr. Cool and the like. But I suspect there’s a whole other class of units that we don’t ever get to see.

I sometimes wonder what a $5000 12,000 BTU mini split gets you in terms of ability to cool in extremely hot environments, longevity, and repairability.

One random example:

Harsh Duty Air Conditioners - Custom Built for Industrial Sites

Aero Conditioner Company makes A/C units for corrosive, dusty, hot, humid, explosive, marine, military and other extreme or severe industrial work sites.

www.aeroconditioner.com

 

[fitter30]

There are some differences between daikin, mitsubishi or any major hvac company equipment carrier, trane, york , lennox equipment even though others make their equipment. Compressors and fan motors are made better. Support for their contractors, training and if needed service. Efficiency is about the all about the same because they all use the same 410a refrigerates and enhanced coils. But with the newer refrigerates that are greener coming out there still won't be a big difference in efficiency.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Efficiency is about the all about the same because they all use the same 410a refrigerates and enhanced coils."

Disagree, the efficiency of different manufacturers varies considerably, even on the top tier manufacturers with their top end models. Basically what drives the manufacturers is profit, there is a higher profit producing a fairly efficient unit vs producing a high efficiency unit; some top tier manufacturers rely on their name, producing fairly efficient models at high prices, touting very high efficiency, which not true, and they get sales anyway. Comes down to "Let the buyer beware", education is the key.

 

[danski0224]

Does anyone have any experience with better air-conditioning systems.

By better I mean above the consumer level stuff.

I see some websites and flyers for harsh duty or heavy duty or commercial mini split systems. I’m certain they cost more. And I suspect the quality is better. While the efficiency may not be there. But who knows.?

We spend a lot of time discussing Mr. Cool and the like. But I suspect there’s a whole other class of units that we don’t ever get to see.

I sometimes wonder what a $5000 12,000 BTU mini split gets you in terms of ability to cool in extremely hot environments, longevity, and repairability.

One random example:

Harsh Duty Air Conditioners - Custom Built for Industrial Sites

Aero Conditioner Company makes A/C units for corrosive, dusty, hot, humid, explosive, marine, military and other extreme or severe industrial work sites.

www.aeroconditioner.com

The part in bold will be in the specifications.

If you need something unique/different, then you have reached a point where you need to have a distributor put together a system that meets your design conditions. The company I work for does this with mini split style systems for IT closets, where the client isn't necessarily spending Liebert money, either.

The stuff in that website seems to be the product of a vendor focused on a niche with relative turn key design.

That equipment will be orders of magnitude more expensive than the "expensive" DIY stuff normally in this forum. Government (taxpayer) money expensive.

Almost anything "better" than DIY focused mini split offerings won't be focused at the DIY market.

 

[cherokee]

What are you trying to do, and what makes you think you need to spend the more money on a "harsh duty".

I am not saying you do or don't need this, just asking the why you are looking this way.

In my shop from day 1 I have had a 36000 "window" unit AC in there, and it will cool the lower 8' of the shop just fine, no issue at all. The thing is at least 10 years old. Now it does not run all the time, only when I am out there, but when I am out there and turn it on it will run all the time, you can hear the compressor kick on. The fan runs for a minute then you hear the thing kick over.

Now I built a loft, and here in hot and humid MO it gets flat nasty. This is the first spring for the loft, the temp outside has hit low 80's at best so far, and as usual 90% humidity. The temp and humidity on the floor of the shop will get in the mid 70's if it is hotter then that outside, and in the 80's you will adjust the AC as it will make it actually cold in there. Up on the loft those 80F days will give you a 100F temp in the loft. No fun.

I am looking at ways to hit the loft area with cool air, quiet cool air. I am thinking of a large mini split, perhaps two head. I had planned on working up there, the press is there and plans for the mill and lathe are for up there as well, I want to "use" this space, but not in 100F temps.

I am torn on what to do. A couple cheap "window" units like I have down stairs I think would be just fine. The one I have came from Sutherlands, so nothing special, normal "home" unit, and no issues aside from the mount starting to flake paint and get rusty....I need to paint that.

I am really interested in learning on what the OP is thinking, personally I have always thought my existing unit would "blow up" being how hard I usually run it, and think I should get an "extreme duty" unit.....but I don't really know.

 

[Walkers]

I have seen the window units from the old motels running that had to be 50 years old, get one of those!

 

[dcg9381]

Generally, there's a price run up with SEER efficiency. To me, there's a cost/benefit analysis that has to be done when you can get a 17 SEER for cheap and 22+ SEER is "substantially more".

I've never really considered "harsh duty" units. Assuming they cost 2-3x+ unless I'm in a remote environment where up time is absolutely critical, I dunno they are part of my "consumer market". The military and the US government certainly has specifications of stuff that you and I can't get in the regular consumer market. That doesn't mean that I buy military grade laptops.

Is it true that commercial HVAC units, IE - the type that do water based cooling are much more efficient in terms of energy use than residential compressor type units?

 

[Jim greengo]

From my experiance with heavy duty/military grade equipt,its always built by the lowest bidder.
Words like heavy duty and super duty are just thrown out there to sell things to people who aren't going to actually do a serious comparison of things.

 

[bluedog225]

The old window units did seem to run forever. Setting aside efficiency issues.

These cheap mini splits seem to be hit and miss with quality unless you go with the high end. And even then seem more fragile. Stories of 5-10 years and done, poor soldering/brazing, unavailable/expensive electronic replacement parts. Just cheap and sort of ******.

I’m going to run exclusively on solar at my country place. And want a very reliable, long-lasting unit. It will keep a room full of pretty expensive batteries cool. It will only run during good solar production hours (probably) so efficiency isn’t critical as panels are cheap.

Seeing 110 eff is not all that unusual. And in the sun, I recall laser thermometer checking the pavement at 140.

All to say, I’d like a machine that will keep chugging away in high heat, and something hardened against vibration (like a refer truck rig) would seem less likely to fail over the long haul.

I’m guessing the telcom stuff may be designed for longer mean time between failure. But just guessing.

 

[Fav Onefour]

I'm interested to see what people have found.

I bought a place last year that has six built in wall AC units. They are all identical basic GE 9k installed around 2002. Honestly, I'm fine with how those have held up, but the first one has pooped out now. I'm sure the rest will follow. I don't like knick knacks and do dads on those AC units. What I do like is a unit that I turn on, set the temp, and it works.

It drives me nuts to deal with all this throw away stuff on the market. (It would be easy to go on a full blown rant about dehumidifiers. They are going to become a really big deal with all the heat pumps on the horizon.)

I'm not exactly a greenie, but I don't understand how it's a good idea to keep building and selling stuff that just fills up the dump pile. I'm all ears on something that is built to last. I don't need stuff with **** massagers and live phone alerts. I just want to walk in and see it's still working.

 

[LXCam]

So you want high end. Heck man go for broke and get Liebert

 

[Fav Onefour]

So you want high end. Heck man go for broke and get Liebert

I did some checking. I wasn't familiar with their stuff.
Looks like they are focused on data rooms and various commercial applications.
The term high end doesn't bother me if it keeps working. I get tired of fixing and replacing stuff that shouldn't be failing.

@bluedog225 , has brought up a subject that I feel is relevant to many of us.
It's a topic on my radar. I have bought and refurbed a few different properties over the years. I usually end up gutting the slapped in HVAC systems and start over with properly functioning stuff that I hope will last. I'd hate to be wasting my time and money with another round of short term fixes.

 

[FredWanaker]

this Carrier split unit is 20+ years old. Compressor went out at 18 years and I had just it replaced. The prior Payne unit lasted 20 years but was so inefficient it wasn't worth fixing. I can't imagine getting a unit that is more reliable than it has been. Even when it fails, which it will someday, I'll just go with another top end unit. One trick is to look for a top of the line unit just as it is replaced with a new model. The old model gets discounted significantly but technically it is close to the same as the new one.