Highseer.com vs. Pioneerminisplit.com?

[Steve W.]

I am getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger. Looking at a Pioneer system, 36k BTU dual-zone. Each of the air handlers will be a UB018GMFILCFHD-16, which can be mounted as a floor console or hung from the ceiling. I saw other manufacturers that offered floor consoles, but none that could be ceiling mounted.

My main question is, which site is better? Ordering the same system from both places, got to the shipping page, which includes taxes and shipping. Highseer's price was $3113, Pioneer's was $3250. I have seen a lot of praises for Highseer, just wondering if going direct to Pioneer is worth the extra $137?

I will have help on the install from a friend who is a licensed HVAC tech, so I'll have to check about warranty availability.

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[fitter30]

Questions to ask each supplier. Service manual ? Parts available blower motor, condenser fan motor 2nd do they stock parts. Is there someone to help answer a service question?

 

[Steve W.]

Good point, thanks.

Seeing as how one of them (pioneerminisplits) appears to be the manufacturer, I would hope that they have parts. Service manual and tech support might be other issues.

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[PoorUB]

Good point, thanks.

Seeing as how one of them (pioneerminisplits) appears to be the manufacturer, I would hope that they have parts. Service manual and tech support might be other issues.

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I seriously doubt Pioneer manufactures their own units.

 

[SALIV8]

I do not have pioneer units. But was seriously considering them. I would go with highseer based on customer support and reputation. Not to mention the lower prices.

But, I would call up each company and present that same question to them. Let us know what they say.

 

[yeldogt]

How are you going to use the system .... what will it be heating/ cooling?

 

[Steve W.]

Use will probably be more heating than cooling. Currently, I am using a kerosene torpedo (50k BTU) that only runs a few minutes per hour. During the time I have projects going, I maintain about 60° so I can simply go in and start working. When the projects are only on the weekends, I'll keep the temp lower and raise it just before I start working. (The torpedo can raise temps about 15° in about 10 minutes, then just a few minutes per hour to keep it there.)

During the summer, when cooling would happen, the overhead door will be opened and closed to get the motorcycles in and out. Probably only a few weeks when AC will be necessary due to high temps. Open doors and windows, along with a couple of fans keep things liveable most of the time. Of course, with the AC available, it might get used a bit more often.

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[yeldogt]

Size of space

Is this one space large space .... will both heads be on at the same time?

How cold does it get outside?

Have you done a load to figure out what the building will require ? What the output of the unit will be at the lowest temp the area gets down to ?

The duels work a bit differently ... as well.

 

[metlmunchr]

Pioneer mini and highseer are the same company.

 

[brianh]

Have you thought about 2 separate units? since going with dual inside units? I installed a pioneer 12,000 unit in our house in Oct for supplement heat we have a woodstove for primary. We were away the first two weeks of Dec I left it set at 61 the house was fine. I will be insalling a second in our living room house is only 1400 sq ft. I like having separate units if one has an issue the other is still running. I am in the Catskills NY gets fairly cold here.

 

[Steve W.]

Size of space

Is this one space large space .... will both heads be on at the same time?

How cold does it get outside?

Have you done a load to figure out what the building will require ? What the output of the unit will be at the lowest temp the area gets down to ?

The duels work a bit differently ... as well.

1. This is two separate spaces. The lower level (main shop) is 24x30, but one end is taken up by the half-bath and stairs going up, leaving about 24x24 to be conditioned.
Upstairs has attic trusses. The room in the middle is roughly 10x30. Could probably get by with a 12k or 15k unit up there, but it needs to be a floor console to fit under a window, and Pioneer only has 18k and 24k units available. This upstairs area is the hang-out area with couch, chairs, TV, etc. Yes, it's quite possible that both units will be on at the same time.

2. It is not uncommon to see morning temps in the teens, occasionally it goes into negative numbers, but not for very long. I will still have my torpedo available if it gets THAT cold.

3a. Yes, the load calc says that I would need between 10k and 15k.
3b. I looked at the specs, the Pioneer unit is rated to -13°F, so I should be OK.

4. I think I know what you mean, but this will be a single unit in each of two separate areas, so they won't be fighting (or helping) each other. Evidently I have to get a 3-zone outside unit to get the capacity that I need, just don't need to connect the third unit.

Thanks for the on-going conversation. I tried to post pertinent details without overloading, but some fair questions have come up.

I will be contacting each company this week to ask about any accessories and warranties. As tempting as it might sound, I have pretty much decided against any wi-fi control, just to eliminate another hackable point.

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[Steve W.]

Pioneer mini and highseer are the same company.

I thought that might be a possibility, because the two websites are virtually identical. Will have to check with them to see what justifies the $137 difference.

Have you thought about 2 separate units?

Well, yeah, sorta, but that was shot down quite some time ago. When we wired the place six years ago, we ran a wire to the location where I plan on putting the outside unit. Did you catch the "A wire" part? I was planning ahead for a two-zone unit, so just ran one power wire and dedicated one spot in the panel. I would have to pull wall panels through much of the shop to run a second wire for a second unit.

At least my planning at that time had me install 10ga wire and a 30A breaker. The install manual says the three-zone unit can be intalled with 14ga wire. It does not specify the breaker size, but that size wire would usually have a 15A breaker on it.

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[brianh]

You have the power with 10 gauge to put in a branch with a disconnect to run two separate units, conduit and wire is cheap. The highest wattage my 12.000 has pulled was 1450 watts on turbo mode.
I installed a power meter on the line to track usage.

 

[PoorUB]

Keep in mind with most mini splits they both will heat or cool a the same time, but not both. If you are buying units for upstairs and down stairs or opposite sides of a home separate units might be better.

 

[yeldogt]

Having a unit work at zero degrees and having a unit provide full rated capacity at zero degrees is not the same -- hyper heat units provide rated capacity at the stated low temps and have pan heaters ... you have to look at full specifications. don't go by "Works down to X temp"

You don't want to have uninstalled ports -- the compressor on a multi is sized for the space. You don't add up the head BTU's and pick the compressor based on that number.

Have to look at the minimum output of the compressor .... as they get bigger that number gets bigger. This can cause problems with multi system where one of the heads is often off. Now that minimum output can only go one place. Also -- multi head systems are never fully off to any head -- there must be some refrigerant going to all the heads all the time. The metering devise is in the outside unit --- not in the head

FYI: As an example. I have two houses each with a three head mini split systems. Both have a 30k Mitsubishi compressor unit tied to three 12k heads. When proper loads were done -- overall space when running needed the 30k .... at any given time one space may need close to the head output .. but it's rare ... even nearing design temps. One of mine is at the beach ... so it gets tested. Another factor is overall head performance ... the multi heads don't work the same when tied to a multi compressor even with them being the same head. The compressor is calling the shots.

 

[Jackfre]

I’ll use my experience with Fujitsu as that is the only manuf i know. The advantage of individual systems is that you end up with higher efficiencies in both H&C. Most of the multis run in the 16-18 seer range. A single 12 can be in the 26-33 seer range and much higher hspf’s as well. Most 9 and 12 units can run off a 15 amp breaker. 24’s call for a 20 amp and the 36 trips/quads a 30 amp. The redundancy of individual units is a real advantage. You only really find that out if there is a problem, but things can and do happen. A unit that is run in a garage/shop and one in a clean area are best as separate units. I think you will be much happier doing the additional electrical and going with single units.

 

[yeldogt]

I’ll use my experience with Fujitsu as that is the only manuf i know. The advantage of individual systems is that you end up with higher efficiencies in both H&C. Most of the multis run in the 16-18 seer range. A single 12 can be in the 26-33 seer range and much higher hspf’s as well. Most 9 and 12 units can run off a 15 amp breaker. 24’s call for a 20 amp and the 36 trips/quads a 30 amp. The redundancy of individual units is a real advantage. You only really find that out if there is a problem, but things can and do happen. A unit that is run in a garage/shop and one in a clean area are best as separate units. I think you will be much happier doing the additional electrical and going with single units.

Even the installers don't know some of the specifics -- I have had to explain it to them and have them call Mitsubishi (they never believe me)

There are situation when the multi will be the way to go -- it all depends on the average loads and the unit picked. With proper set up and doing a whole house often the multi will be running in the most efficient range vs having singles running most of the time out of that 70% spot. People see the ratings and assume they get those efficiency ratings at any temp. When you oversize and the unit is running at 25% .. it's not getting it. The question always is ... what is the efficiency?

You don't want a duel when one of the heads is always going to be off. It's better to have two systems and properly size them ... with many of the units able to go 110% ... that eliminates the odd days from many calculations and gets you a proper system.

My new project has three singles vs a multi head. One location is a kitchen and it throws off the calculation -- the other is a little used spot and it does as well

 

[kbeefy]

So complicated.... I'm starting my own thread but learned that I need to learn alot more from this one.

Thanks!

 

[Steve W.]

Sorry to say, no update at this point. Things were just a bit too busy at work, with "end of the quarter" and "end of the year" stuff all coming around at the same time.

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