Hinge/Flex handle repair kit, necessary?

[jeejay]

I was looking for one of each drive size in L-handles, but nobody seems to make them as a set (or individually), so I'm considering hinge/flex handles for smaller sizes. Then I saw some repair kits for those kind. Do they tend to break or wear out commonly? Has anyone had a problem with that...

Also, I could use adapters on the L-handles, but they're already extended in shape, so I'd prefer a drive-assortment (of something or other). Were there ever smaller L-handles out there? I saw some hybrid T-handles with an L-shape (from Motion Pro), but the handle looks a bit small to grip at the long end. I like the knurled handles on L-types too (not the double ended ones, can't imagine much use for the other end there, or another type of handle could work better in that direction).

Gotta figure though, the flex handle is only as strong as its pin, so the L-handle is at least twice as strong. Might try adapters first (could add a u-joint too if I needed some flex, and sometimes I probably won't want it to move). Besides, they shorten handle lengths with decreasing drive sizes (except half-inch usually come in short or long, but not too short like the others might be). Well, maybe you could plug a handle into double-ended ones to extend them (so there, I've figured out a use for it, and another one for my half-inch spinner handle/extension thingy). I don't know, they may be designed for using a socket extension as a plug-in cheater bar, but don't recall seeing all drives available with two ends either.

 

[gdocktor3]

The "drive flex handle" also known as a breaker bar will surely be shorter than the Lhandle and most definitely stronger than using the L with a universal joint. I've had a few cheaper breaker bars tabs (where the pin goes through) bend, but never break. Nor have the pins. If you spend the money on a good one like Snap On or Proto, you shouldn't have a problem. You can even buy some used on eBay for cheap that will work fine. I've used 3ft+ pipes on my older 1/2" Snap On breaker bars with no problem at all. There is also a video of a guy testing a HF breaker bar with a huge 4-5 foot pipe and it far exceeded its limits. I think it was in the 1000s of ft lbs before it finally failed, but don't quote me on that. All I know is it was strong as hell and impressed/surprised everyone. Plus, a breaker bar can be used as a nut driver when you straighten it out and some have square drive ends in the handles which doubles it as an extension. Id pass on that L wrench.

 

[jeejay]

Thanks, I did order a ratcheting breaker bar the other day before giving it that much thought (so I can try both). Already had a 9-inch L, and like those for holding one end of a fastener at least (could add a ratchet on the end too).

 

[gdocktor3]

Just keep in mind a "ratcheting" breaker bar is no where near as strong as an actual breaker bar.

 

[jeejay]

Why, did the same test have different results with the same pin on those?

 

[gdocktor3]

Why, did the same test have different results with the same pin on those?

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

[jeejay]

Well, you mentioned that a breaker bar had been tested for strength, and just as a pin holds the drive on it, a pin holds a ratchet, so I wonder why you say it wouldn't be anywhere near as strong. Also L-handles aren't necessarily longer than flex ones, they all seem to come in various lengths.

 

[gdocktor3]

It's the ratcheting mechanism itself that is the weak point. Not the pin.

When I said longer I meant the drive end. It sticks out further than that of the breaker bar.

 

[jeejay]

Right, it sticks out farther at the L. I don't know why the ratcheting mechanism would be considered a weak link though. I know of at least one ratcheting torque wrench that has a 1500 ft-lb capacity (this... in case a bot adds a link here to some little one I'm not talking about).

 

[gdocktor3]

Breaker bars are called breaker bars because they're used to break fasteners loose. Ratchets are used to tighten or loosen fasteners. Most ratchets will work for breaking fasteners loose, but eventually it will reach its limits and break. Torque wrenches are intended to tighten fasteners to certain specs. Whether it's 100in lbs or 1500 ft lbs depends on the type. The reason they are reversible is to torque fasteners with left handed threads. They're generally not intended to break fasteners free, but in some cases it is used to break them free in order to confirm everything is in proper order. Most commonly used in large industrial settings. I'm not saying what you have won't work, just that it will have its limits when compared to an actual non ratcheting breaker bar.

 

[jeejay]

I'm just thinking those limits would be pretty high too, as a torque wrench would work as a breaker bar without damage, as long as its torque capacity wasn't exceeded for the breaking torque (and was being cranked in the proper direction, some are not reversible).

 

[jeejay]

Also, I suppose an L-handle with a ratchet adapter would have all the force transferred at the drive to that, so it may be as sturdy as any other adapter or extension regardless of ratcheting (I wouldn't likely use one at 1500 foot pounds, just an example). The L drive handle alone though I'd think is certainly the strongest type, if you're saying the more moving parts there are, the lower its capacity (and the flex ones can bend like you menitoned, so they have replacement kits for that reason, or something wears out I guess). Maybe the ratchet on those wouldn't break any sooner than the rest of it (although I've read mixed reviews about the HF brand, trying a Titan, since I got some of their ratchet adapters).

I probably don't use these things often enough to look for the highest quality, but don't seek the lowest either (didn't even know about all the handle types until recently, because they're not often together on the average hardware store shelf, especially L-handles, maybe they last too long... well I did see a 3/4" at Lowes, only one and it was on clearance, so maybe they're not interesting enough, or difficult to position by themselves, never saw the ratchet adapters on any shelf though, I had to invent one in my mind to look for it, not bragging, just saying some things are that uncommon). It's somewhere between novelty and usefulness what I look for, but if the flex one doesn't last, I think the other will be my replacement for that size, instead of a repair kit (by the way, the HF impact u-joints will go to 90 degrees, 1/2 inch in particular, and I torqued on them a bit without a problem, may test them higher sometime for kicks, another use for the double-ended L, or a longer extension by itself).

 

[gdocktor3]

Yes the L shape is stronger, but at the same time it's one piece design has its drawbacks when working around obstacles and in tight areas. Every tool has its own purpose and benefit/drawback. That's why it's good to have multiple tools that are able to do the same job, but in a different way if that makes sense.

 

[jeejay]

I think so too, and they can overlap depending on how they're configured (to some extent). I'll probably skip testing the limits of a u-joint that way though, because they can also slip at an unnatural angle, so I could possibly break my wrist at high torque (not what I'd want to test the limits of).

 

[gdocktor3]

^I was thinking the same thing with the weird angles of the L wrench. Almost like a lug nut wrench that always seems to slip off when you really put some oomph into it. I also do the same exact thing as you with the 1/2" and 3/4". There is a certain point when you know enough is enough and it's time to take it to the next level. I bought myself an older 1/2" drive 15" Roundhead Williams Superatchet which has the 4 pawl design that I use for most of the stubborn fasteners. I really like the design and durability of it. The more teeth engaged, the better. After that I go to the breaker bar and if it's not enough I step up to 3/4" breaker bar with a cheater. I have 3/8" and 1/2" dual 80s, but warranty or not, rather than risk breaking them I prefer to step up to a breaker bar when the going gets tough.

 

[T45]

The advantage of the L handle is it's inherently more stiff and can manage off-axis forces a little better. This keeps the socket on the fastener more squarely and probably give some more feel. The disadvantage is that the fixed offset usually limits the effective length of the handle, as you cannot make minor adjustments to clear potential obstructions.

So people moved the the flex-handle with wrist pin, and and gained obstruction clearance. But doing so introduced a wrist-pin as a weak-point. Modern breaker bars are designed to fail, to preserve the integrity of the joint, so they don't suffer permanat damage or loss of tolerances in the handle (much more metal/expense).

Modern ratchet internals are now on par with the wrist-pin strengthwise, and in testing tend to sheat at the square drive. This has made breaker bars obsolete in the standard sizes...and now the money is best invested in long and extra long breaker bars for leverage and clearance issues (plus cheaper than ratchets), and the use of high-strength ratchet designs in the standard sizes.

 

[dutchgray]

If you really want a nice L handle Koken makes them. There is always the sliding T bar if you want a shorter length on the drive end.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I have a HF Pro 18" bar bar as my main 1/2" breaker bar, and my chance of breaking it without a cheater pipe is even lower because of the 6" shorter handle. I would need to put 350+ pounds of weight on the end of my bar for it to snap during use.

Only true if your bar was made on a 'good steel day' at the HF sweatshop.


If you want L handles, used good vintag ones will be cheaper and probably stronger than anything HF has to offer.

I've never broke the pin on a hinge handle, had both the handle ears fail, and the square break off. The hinge can get sloppy over time too with at least the lesser ones.
My 1/2" MATCO takes whatever like a boss, 3/8" Im using a WWII DuroChrome which seems to work perfect, and can be used as an extension.

 

[jeejay]

In terms of L-handles I don't really like them. The length of the socket attachment leg usually puts enough force on the socket to try and tilt the socket off of the bolt head while you are torquing on it unless you support the right angle part of the L-handle with your hand or another object during torquing. It's the same issue you run into while trying to torque on a regular breaker bar or ratchet while using a socket extension.

I haven't experienced this kind of tilt with extensions off of a socket (I'd think maybe the socket wasn't deep enough to seat fully in that case).

 

[gdocktor3]

I haven't experienced this kind of tilt with extensions off of a socket (I'd think maybe the socket wasn't deep enough to seat fully in that case).

It's the opposite. The nut or bolt head isn't big enough to get a good grip with the tool. Seems to happen to me on flange bolts the most. If you take your time, you'll have no problem. Sometimes when we rush, we get careless.

 

[jeejay]

Oh, I've been using extensions on big things so far (thanks for the tips).

 

[jeejay]

Also got the ratcheting hinge/flex handle today, seems like a good combination (spinning it straightened out would make changing the angle of the handle easier sometimes). I'll probably try the smaller sizes with my ratchet adapters too, since the consensus seems to be that a replacement head is unnecessary unless you're overtorquing on them.

 

[jeejay]

Going back to L handles, at least I've found that a set of 1/4 thru 1/2 inch (2-way) ones exist somewhere in the world. "Crossman" drive accessories anyone? Looks like they're only listed wholesale...

Or I don't speak that language. The retail I've seen are Gedore and Genius tools, but those go 3/8" up. Weirdest thing, there's like a thousand variations on other handles in all sizes.

 

[jeejay]

There is a twin-flex handle I saw mentioned here, which would last that much longer you'd think.

 

[Wakefield]

Wright "Bull Bar" is sort of a modern ell handle (no flex joint and pin) but I think only comes in 3/4" and 1" drive models.
Also a thought is to take a large sliding T handle (like a 3/4" drive model)use it with a really good impact reducer (if you are working in 1/2" drive) less apt to have the problem of "tilt" and slip that a previous poster referred to if you keep forward force on it as well as torque

 

[jeejay]

Oh yeah, looks like the bull bar is more compact in a way.

 

[Finky198]

I had that long extension issue last week removing a master cylinder on a 79 bronco it was seriously flexing the handle on the HF long 3/8 flex head with an 11" extension that was twisting as well. So out came the snapon sf80a and 1/2" 12" extension. The ratchet is just a little bit longer, but going up in drive size removed the flex and it broke the bolt lose with less torque then the other... Granted i only had 4" area of to swing the ratchet a breaker bar or L Handle would be of no use. Every job will require a specific tool for a each way of doing that job.

 

[jeejay]

Guess I'll end up with a little assortment of each. Got the Urrea 1/2 drive hinge to compare to their L. They made the hinge handle much more hefty, with an enlarged knurled grip (the L is more like a 3/8 size except for its square drive). Saw a KT 3/4 drive ell that's only 12-inches long, that's probably heftier.

 

[jeejay]

Hmm, another thing about the Bull Bar is that I can see a head kit being useful, as an accessory rather than a replacement. It has two positions for the one head, at the end or in the middle, with a set screw (threaded through for putting it on either side of the bar), so an extra head could be put on there, facing either way, to give it two horns (so to speak).

Seems to be the concept there anyway.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Half the advantage to a slide bar is you can slide it to the other side for clearance, adn with the bull bar you cant....

 

[jeejay]

Yeah, I wasn't comparing it to a slide bar, except it's more like a static half length T-handle (and full length L-handle). Could put a ratchet on there too (and the handle wouldn't spin like a slide bar). Just saying its repair kit (spare head) is more useful for configuring a handle with two drives (since this topic is about when repair kits are necessary, I think that's a good example). Kind of unique because if one of the drives did have a problem, the other could be put in either position. Well, there are repair kits for sliding T handles too, I guess more than one head could be slid on there, but they might get in each other's way. Maybe three would stay in place on one with detents, besides finding a place to hold onto the handle (or that's like using an abacus).

Looking to try this one out too.

Compatible with their adjustable handle also. Could make it similar to a bull bar that way (except it would then spin in two directions, or maybe that could come in handy).