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Hitachi/Metabo Underrated?

tarbellb

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One interesting thing about Metabo-HPT and HiKOKI is that they offer a brushless AC motor for some of the corded tools. The main benefits seem to be a reduction in size and weight, and simpler construction, and no brush replacement.



I've got 3 of the brushless corded 4.5" grinders

Hands down my favorite grinder, better then my German Metabo, better then my German Fein.

Love the skinny body, safety features, vari speed. New model is the G12BYEQ

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ToolRoom

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I'm very much a fan of Hitachi or HiKoki as it is know over here (IIRC U.S. customers didn't like the new name in a focus group, hence why it ended up as Metabo HPT).

Their original (pre Hitachi split) line-up of tools was reliable but very stale, however since coming out with their Brushless stuff they have really started to innovate and seem to be trying to chase Makita.

They are not always the best quality or the best performance when compared to the competition - but they often provide 90% for a more affordable price.

For example their mid-torque impact wrench is IP56 rated and a beast (I have one). They are the first with a 1/2" cordless router. Their table saw offers a massive capacity and with their AC adapter can be cordless or corded depending on the job.

The elegant backward compatibility of the 36v batteries is nothing short of genius in my opinion - I can take a Hitachi tool from 2009 and stick a brand new 36V battery on it, and it is compatible. Wish more manufacturers had support like that. The new bluetooth batteries are a novel way around the automatic dust collector challenge.



It's not all unicorns and sunshine though - my biggest annoyance are the lack of accessories. They seem to come out with the tool and go "right, we are done, onto the next thing".

Makita will make eleventy billion extras to cover anything and everything and will continue to add options to the line up over time - Hikoki will give you an instruction manual and a packet of desiccant and that's your lot, for ever.
Trim router is a case in point - luckily a lot of the Makita bits fit the Hikoki, but how hard would it be to make a few extra bases?

While on the subject of the trim router, you will often see "better" models available as Japanese market only, for example the 36V is a monster, able to compete with the top end Makita and wipes out the Dewalt and Milwaukee in testing - but the rest of the world get the 18V which is fine (I have one) but somewhat anaemic in comparison. Seems like a missed trick or a push to try and make you buy both the 1/4 and 1/2.

In the U.K. they also apparently haven't heard of the concept of promotion or marketing.
We don't get any of the battery deals you guys in the U.S. did. We don't get deals at all.
While all the other colours will run regular promotions or enticements the HiKoki strategy has been to actually pull out of two large U.K. retailers and leave you to buy their tools from small trade only dealers and a handful of online sellers, if and when you can find them in stock.

We also only get a subset of the available tools at usually at least a couple years behind Europe.
Infuriating when you are continually having to wait to actually give them your money.

With that said, I'm happy with Team Green so far, the cordless tools I've got have all served me well. I have a few older Hitachi corded power tools which I actually think were better quality than their newer equivalents, and for Grinders I use a lot of the (German) Metabo, but do have a couple of Hitachi ones which have been pretty good too.
 

marak

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Jan 26, 2015
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338
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Anchorage, Alaska
I purchased a HPT Metabo impact driver on Christmas special for dirt cheap last year. The POS lasted 3 months, at best. Neither battery will hold a charge. Never again will I purchase an HPT anything. I am a big fan of Metabo and have several of their grinders and drivers. I'd take a HF tool over a HPT any day, but there is no HF in Alaska. I am not brand loyal and I am not afraid to spend money on tools, but I also have 3 workshops, so it is handy to have multiples of many tools of varying quality/cost. The HPT driver was used very little in non-demanding situations.
 

neophyte

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I'm very much a fan of Hitachi or HiKoki as it is know over here (IIRC U.S. customers didn't like the new name in a focus group, hence why it ended up as Metabo HPT).

Their original (pre Hitachi split) line-up of tools was reliable but very stale, however since coming out with their Brushless stuff they have really started to innovate and seem to be trying to chase Makita.

They are not always the best quality or the best performance when compared to the competition - but they often provide 90% for a more affordable price.

For example their mid-torque impact wrench is IP56 rated and a beast (I have one). They are the first with a 1/2" cordless router. Their table saw offers a massive capacity and with their AC adapter can be cordless or corded depending on the job.

The elegant backward compatibility of the 36v batteries is nothing short of genius in my opinion - I can take a Hitachi tool from 2009 and stick a brand new 36V battery on it, and it is compatible. Wish more manufacturers had support like that. The new bluetooth batteries are a novel way around the automatic dust collector challenge.



It's not all unicorns and sunshine though - my biggest annoyance are the lack of accessories. They seem to come out with the tool and go "right, we are done, onto the next thing".

Makita will make eleventy billion extras to cover anything and everything and will continue to add options to the line up over time - Hikoki will give you an instruction manual and a packet of desiccant and that's your lot, for ever.
Trim router is a case in point - luckily a lot of the Makita bits fit the Hikoki, but how hard would it be to make a few extra bases?

While on the subject of the trim router, you will often see "better" models available as Japanese market only, for example the 36V is a monster, able to compete with the top end Makita and wipes out the Dewalt and Milwaukee in testing - but the rest of the world get the 18V which is fine (I have one) but somewhat anaemic in comparison. Seems like a missed trick or a push to try and make you buy both the 1/4 and 1/2.

In the U.K. they also apparently haven't heard of the concept of promotion or marketing.
We don't get any of the battery deals you guys in the U.S. did. We don't get deals at all.
While all the other colours will run regular promotions or enticements the HiKoki strategy has been to actually pull out of two large U.K. retailers and leave you to buy their tools from small trade only dealers and a handful of online sellers, if and when you can find them in stock.

We also only get a subset of the available tools at usually at least a couple years behind Europe.
Infuriating when you are continually having to wait to actually give them your money.

With that said, I'm happy with Team Green so far, the cordless tools I've got have all served me well. I have a few older Hitachi corded power tools which I actually think were better quality than their newer equivalents, and for Grinders I use a lot of the (German) Metabo, but do have a couple of Hitachi ones which have been pretty good too.
Pre Black & Decker Porter Cable came out with a 1/2” Cordless router back around 2008.
It has since bern discontinued.
It used 19.2 volt NiCd batteries.
The router motor was compatible with the very popular Porter Cable 690 router bases.
 

ToolRoom

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83
Location
UK
Pre Black & Decker Porter Cable came out with a 1/2” Cordless router back around 2008.
It has since bern discontinued.
It used 19.2 volt NiCd batteries.
The router motor was compatible with the very popular Porter Cable 690 router bases.

I think they qualify the claim as the worlds first 1/2 cordless dedicated plunge router, where the PC 9290 was effectively an oversize trim router which you could use with a plunge base. Semantics perhaps, but then again I'm not in marketing. In fairness it is still a first in terms of currently produced offerings available to buy today.

I only have the 18v trim, but I've seen the 36V 1/2" router demo'd and it is serious bit of kit.
Quite amazing how far cordless tools have come in the last few years.
 

F-22

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Had an early 2000's Hitachi angle grinder for years. Never failed but after some 15 years the bearings and the gears got really loud - basically, it wore out and I believe it was a normal life cycle of the product, I can't expect anything more from any angle grinder. It never failed, it just literally wore out after a decade and a half of use. The metabo I replaced it with (german metabo) feels more flimsy but it's holding up great too.


In my opinion, the differences are often exaggerated. Hitachi/Hikoki tools I've seen are competitive to makita, milwaukee, dewalt, bosch... Even hilti and festool are similar, but they offer more advantages for businesses (like I think better warranty support and repairs... over here Hilti has the tool truck kind of like snap on, and they sort out everything for you).

We have a german Metabo top of the line cordless drill and angle grinder, and a corder angle grinder too. The corded one is great, the cordless is starting to get a bit wobbly and loud after 3 years, and the cordless drill had to be replaced - it wouldn't hold a steady RPM and would sometimes go really slow or just go nuts... But these tools were really abused at work. The drill has an e-clutch instead of a mechanical one, and on the old one got really dangerous. It wouldn't disengage but the drill was rated to some 120Nm or sth like that, if you didn't hold it well and the drill bit got stuck it would pull your arm out. To be expected that well used tools get failures, but if we got any more life out of any other brand I think it'd be only due to luck because the top tools are all at similar prices and performances.
 

Ton ton

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Page County,VA
Had an early 2000's Hitachi angle grinder for years. Never failed but after some 15 years the bearings and the gears got really loud - basically, it wore out and I believe it was a normal life cycle of the product, I can't expect anything more from any angle grinder. It never failed, it just literally wore out after a decade and a half of use. The metabo I replaced it with (german metabo) feels more flimsy but it's holding up great too.


In my opinion, the differences are often exaggerated. Hitachi/Hikoki tools I've seen are competitive to makita, milwaukee, dewalt, bosch... Even hilti and festool are similar, but they offer more advantages for businesses (like I think better warranty support and repairs... over here Hilti has the tool truck kind of like snap on, and they sort out everything for you).

We have a german Metabo top of the line cordless drill and angle grinder, and a corder angle grinder too. The corded one is great, the cordless is starting to get a bit wobbly and loud after 3 years, and the cordless drill had to be replaced - it wouldn't hold a steady RPM and would sometimes go really slow or just go nuts... But these tools were really abused at work. The drill has an e-clutch instead of a mechanical one, and on the old one got really dangerous. It wouldn't disengage but the drill was rated to some 120Nm or sth like that, if you didn't hold it well and the drill bit got stuck it would pull your arm out. To be expected that well used tools get failures, but if we got any more life out of any other brand I think it'd be only due to luck because the top tools are all at similar prices and performances.
I have seen a Hilti van down by the river on a Saturday here in Virginia. I didn't feel like bugging him about buying tools on the weekend.
 

neophyte

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I have seen a Hilti van down by the river on a Saturday here in Virginia. I didn't feel like bugging him about buying tools on the weekend.
I’m not sure that Hilti really likes walk in customers, unless you’re just buying a small quantity of fasteners at the last minute.
 

Outahere

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Mar 13, 2021
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Idaho
It seems that in 2024, Metabo and Metabo HPT are still separate, but also together under Koki Holdings America Inc.



Metabo HPT and Metabo are “now under one roof.”

What does this mean?...........................

It seems that Metabo HPT and Metabo are ...... working towards being one company.

Metabo HPT and Metabo cordless power tool lines are NOT compatible, and I have not seen any indication that this is changing anytime soon.

Thus, in regard to cordless compatibility, it doesn’t look like anything has or will be changing.

Metabo HPT and Metabo now being under one roof is noteworthy, but it’s still unclear what benefits this might provide to end users.
 
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rancherbill

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Foothills County, Alberta, Canada
I had Hitachi NiMH cordless tools. Ten years ago, I got 3 multi-piece kits at the surplus store for Costco returns. Their batteries sucked and and the tools were gutless or broken. I was not impressed. I went to Makita. I will not look at other brands now because I am in the Makita world. I have however bought a Ryobi tool because I have a battery adapter.

I just took a look at the Hikoki site and they have problems. It didn't have the info I wanted readily available. There are spelling mistakes on the site. They will have to be better to increase their sales.
 

neophyte

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I had Hitachi NiMH cordless tools. Ten years ago, I got 3 multi-piece kits at the surplus store for Costco returns. Their batteries sucked and and the tools were gutless or broken. I was not impressed. I went to Makita. I will not look at other brands now because I am in the Makita world. I have however bought a Ryobi tool because I have a battery adapter.

I just took a look at the Hikoki site and they have problems. It didn't have the info I wanted readily available. There are spelling mistakes on the site. They will have to be better to increase their sales.
I don’t think the older Hitachi cordless tools were ever considered top notch.
The nailers were considered very good.
The corded tools seemed to be decently regarded, particularly if someone wanted to spend a bit less, but still get a reliable tool.
Some of the Hitachi corded tools used smaller bearings than competitors, but the bearings would be mounted in metal inserts, so if the bearing failed, a larger molded part of a plastic housing wouldn’t get ruined.
Hitachi also made larger portable tools with cast metal housings, such as miter saws and bandsaws, and those were probably considered similar quality to the timber framing tools Makita makes.
 

Crazyjake8493

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Upstate NY
Big fan of Hitachi/Metabo HPT. I have the 18v framing, finish, and pin nailers and they get a lot of use. If they had a bigger variety, I probably would've bought more green tools instead of Milwaukee.
 
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dclark2171

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I think the German Metabo will adopt the HPT Battery system andI believe they are starting to share some China made tools.
 

toyotadriver

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I have a Hitachi router (good), air framing nailer (great), air finish nailer (great), air brad nailer (ok, not great..had issues with feeding the brads....otherwise drives nails fine).

Lots of builders in my area only use Hitachi framing nailers.



Nothing in this post should be misunderstood, interpreted, misinterpreted, or construed to be of a political nature.
 

Retroman

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Bought a Hitachi C8FB Miter saw about a month ago for $40 it would verily slide or bevel cleaned it up and it cuts spot on. Its made in Hoki Japan and the machining is excellent.
 

F-22

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I think the German Metabo will adopt the HPT Battery system
Based on what? German Metabo uses the CAS system which is shared with a bunch of other German brands. Would be weird if they randomly decide to use something else now. I believe the HPT system would benefit more if they adopted the CAS, but even more likely is that they just continue doing what they were doing up to now and having two systems to support their current users in future too.
 

neophyte

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Based on what? German Metabo uses the CAS system which is shared with a bunch of other German brands. Would be weird if they randomly decide to use something else now. I believe the HPT system would benefit more if they adopted the CAS, but even more likely is that they just continue doing what they were doing up to now and having two systems to support their current users in future too.
The CAS System is just German Metabo’s battery system, but made so other manufacturers could readily use the system, and presumably with contractual obligations in place to not make the battery system obsolete in the future without the agreement of the other, or most of the other CAS System members.

Up until the CAS System (and the competing Bosch AMPshare system), power tool manufacturers had to come up with their own battery system, or make arrangements with a separate major power tool manufacturer yo use that manufacturer’s battery system.
In plenty of instances, tool manufacturers found that the battery system’s they adopted from a major manufacturer wound up getting discontinued, resulting in niche, and very expensive tools, that no longer had a readily available supply for batteries and chargers.
The CAS System, and AMPshare system are just trying to eliminate the annoyance of tool users needing half a dozen different battery systems to buy quality niche tools.
 

seber

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German Metabo grinders are among the best. I'm a fan of Hitachi and think they represent a bargain in power tools but they screwed themselves when they came out with a battery drill fashioned after a kid's ray gun. It's hard to take a tool serious when it looks like a toy.
 

dclark2171

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I just got the latest Hikoki impact driver (WH36dd). I compared it to a similar level Milwaukee and the build quality is on par. My neighbor thinks the old Hitachi and current HPT are Ryobi level. I have to disagree, the new Hikoki (hpt version will be released this year) feels like a totally different level of tool vs my Ryobi's. I'm going to say the HPT/Hikoki are at the Makita, Bosch and Milwaukee level of build quality. I'll find out if the perormance quality will last a while
 

Hohn

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the newer Hitachi line of air nailers are **** compared to the old versions, and they are now just equivalent to low end Chinese IMO .
Up till a few years ago, the older Hitachi staplers & finish nailers in good condition often brought more $$$ than new ones did . that tells you something .
All but one of my nailers were bought when the HPT rebrand was going on and I bought them at Lowe's on closeout. I had the 15ga finisher already (and it's excellent), but I added to it the 18ga stapler, the 18ga brad nailer, and the 23ga pinner. All four are Hitachi branded.
All of them are excellent in my usage so far. I keep them clean and oiled as needed. They have survived a lot of loan-out-to-friend usage also.
Excellent tools. I'm not sure if post-HPT they moved production to other locations.
 
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dclark2171

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All but one of my nailers were bought when the HPT rebrand was going on and I bought them at Lowe's on closeout. I had the 15ga finisher already (and it's excellent), but I added to it the 18ga stapler, the 18ga brad nailer, and the 23ga pinner. All four are Hitachi branded.
All of them are excellent in my usage so far. I keep them clean and oiled as needed. They have survived a lot of loan-out-to-friend usage also.
Excellent tools. I'm not sure if post-HPT they moved production to other locations.
I think Hitachi had a really good reputation with their nailers and staplers. From what I have read, the HPTs do as well.
 

tarbellb

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Those HPT nailers are exactly the same as the older Hitachi nailers just different badges

This is also the case for 99% old Metabo and old Hitachi tools currently afaik


Theyve only clusterfucked the branding so far, not the actual tools
 

dclark2171

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Those HPT nailers are exactly the same as the older Hitachi nailers just different badges

This is also the case for 99% old Metabo and old Hitachi tools currently afaik


Theyve only clusterfucked the branding so far, not the actual tools
Correct. Tgey should have just went with Hikoki in the US
 

MovingAlong

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Just bought the Metabo HPT 30 deg framing gun. Low price, good reviews. Test runs seem good, building a shed this summer - suppose I'll learn a few things about it then...
 

tarbellb

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their brad nailers & narrow crown staplers are definitely not the same build quality or looks as the older hitachi's were

I was referencing PRE vs POST merger

Hitachi pneumatic guns were top tier in 80s - 2000s

They are still a good buy, but def not the same
 
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