HOA crushed my dream building

[wnstwolf]

Yeah sorry Goat the big dig is out of my league big time but would have loved to see the excavator show up and your HOA **** their shorts

 

[sam03]

HOA is a waste of money.....

 

[EOC_Jason]

You need to read and understand the exact requirements in your covenants. Once you have that, you can build anything within those rules. Trying to say a short breezeway makes it connected is not going to pass the requirement for no detached buildings. A breezeway would not be considered an attachment by most reasonable person's assessment.

Exactly, don't bother with what the HOA tries to tell you. Most will overstep their bounds in a heartbeat just to satisfy their own personal tastes. Get a copy of your deed restrictions / covenants and see what THAT says. If it's in there where you can't do it, then you are SOL... If it's NOT in there or its too vague to really be enforced (ambiguity typically goes to the person that didn't create the contract), then you can be polite and work with the HOA to get what you want, or you can hire a lawyer. Maybe also talk to your neighbors first too and tell them what you are planning, see if they think it would be okay or if it would upset them...

One of the many reasons I do not like subdivisions, HOA's, municipalities, etc.. Just give me some open land and take your government hippie BS elsewhere...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Long term solution:

Get on the HOA board, make new rules, build garage and harass people that used to be on board.

I've been trying to get some of my friends to take over their HOA in their subdivision (it's a small subdivision right now)... Then pass a thing to convert their retention pond into a ***** / trap field! Hehe...

 

[6t5Goat]

Wow.. Harmonious relationship is listed in the Declaration of Covenants...

Can be denied For any other reasons which would interfere with the harmonious relationship among existing or proposed structures, the natural vegeation and topography of the community or which adversely affects property values in the vicinity of the improvement..

How's that for vague?

 

[Imcrazy]

Wow.. Harmonious relationship is listed in the Declaration of Covenants...

Can be denied For any other reasons which would interfere with the harmonious relationship among existing or proposed structures, the natural vegeation and topography of the community or which adversely affects property values in the vicinity of the improvement..

How's that for vague?

Un-enforceable!

 

[dmeadow]

I agree with those that suggest you get the neighbor's buy-in. You should get the neighbors on either side and anyone else around that might see the garage on a regular basis (other neighbors on a cul-de-sac, across the street, etc.).

If you have your surrounding neighbors saying it doesn't affect the harmony of the neighborhood, it is a little hard for people from another street to argue that one.

It is good you are talking with the members of the committee (result?). Just be friendly, but persistent. Eventually you might get your way just because they are tired of hearing about it. Or, new people will be elected and they might have different views.

Stay the hell away from confrontation, with or without a lawyer. They'll just dig in their heels if you try to bully your way.

 

[Olyar15]

Well, one thing I can think of is to hire an architect, and design a computer rendering of the addition and how it would look within your property as well as the adjoining properties. If you can design it like it was part of the original house, that may persuade them to allow it. Their biggest fear is probably that you are just going to build a big box in the yard.

 

[James E]

It's too late for this but it might help someone in the future. What about making your first submission something really ugly and outside the covenants of the neighborhood. Then they turn it down and you re-submit your more reasonable and much more attractive plan. Then they get the pleasure of telling you no and then believing that you caved to their wills and they say yes. Win/win.

I live with a pretty strict HOA by choice, but I really do think that sometimes the characters that serve on these committees just love the power trip and actively look for something to say no to.

 

[BlindViper]

any under hood pictures of that goat?

 

[Krash Kadillak]

At this point in the process, I'd play nice with them. Attend a meeting of the architectural review committee, taking with you lots of pics and plot plans, and see if you can get some agreement. I would suggest an attitude that is cordial and friendly, but firm (in other words, "I would like your approval to build this addition, and I'll try to work with you, but it's getting built, one way or another!")

You'll have to do some homework and research first, in order to offer a counterpoint to any unreasonable objections they may have on size / shape / setback, etc.

 

[6t5Goat]

any under hood pictures of that goat?

yes.. but I'm having a hard time posting pictures.. anybody point me to some directions?

At this point, I'm getting together with the chair from the board next Thursday for some beers in my garage..

 

[EOC_Jason]

You can't do pictures with the quick-reply box. Click the box at the bottom that says, "Go Advanced"... Then when the new page appears, look in the section below the text box and you will see where you can "Manage Attachments". When you click on that you can upload images directly from your computer and attach them to your post.

 

[38Chevy454]

yes.. but I'm having a hard time posting pictures.. anybody point me to some directions?

At this point, I'm getting together with the chair from the board next Thursday for some beers in my garage..

Not that it affects this discussion, but I drove my 68 GTO to work today! It is also one of the occupants in my detached garage.

Follow the "post reply" button and "manage attachments" as Jason suggested. Then you browse your computer and load the pictures.

Or you can open a photobucket account and just copy the image tag and have the picture show up. Like this, except it has the [ at the beginning and ] at the end:
IMG]http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k364/38Chevy454/68%20GTO/GTO-RF.jpg[/IMG
Here it is correct [IMG..........

 

[brownbagg]

and I'll try to work with you, but it's getting built, one way or another!")

that not going happen, you either play by their rules or move, you cant win, all these HOA has the rule entered in the county deed court so they cant be change if had too.

there was one HOA that put fines on a guy house and when he wouldnt pay them, they took the house, they foreclose on the house. So either do what they want or do without, saying you going do it anyway will put you under the house. about the foreclose house, google it, it was in the news

 

[Stee6043]

Not all HOA's are created equal and not all are "bad". I find it a bit surprising so many folks have negative views of them. Their ultimate goal, whether you believe it or not, is the protect property values for every owner through maintenance, risk mitigation and "quality control". Yes, we give up some flexibility in how we chose to build on our property or alter the appearance of our home but we are also guaranteed that the neighbor across the street never leaves his 1982 Chevy Beretta disabled in the yard for 10 years, the guy 2 doors down won't build a shed in his front yard out of recycled OSB and beer cans and the guy right next door will not be installing a 300' turbine anytime soon.

For those of us with relatively small lots (sub 1 acre) living not far from large cities you really have to think about these things when you buy. Homes, for most of us, are the biggest single investements we'll ever make. As such, for many people, HOA's are a sound tool we can use to protect that investement. If I could have had the house I have now sitting on 10 acres with less than a 2 hour drive from work, sure, I would have loved the additional freedom. But if you want a 20 minute drive, a decent house, and a not-so-impressive 0.75 acres you may have to concede on the HOA membership. At least where I'm from this is true.

Just my two cents. I do live in an HOA. I am not on the board. I've never had a problem with them.

 

[ed_v]

Not all HOA's are created equal and not all are "bad". I find it a bit surprising so many folks have negative views of them. Their ultimate goal, whether you believe it or not, is the protect property values for every owner through maintenance, risk mitigation and "quality control". Yes, we give up some flexibility in how we chose to build on our property or alter the appearance of our home but we are also guaranteed that the neighbor across the street never leaves his 1982 Chevy Beretta disabled in the yard for 10 years, the guy 2 doors down won't build a shed in his front yard out of recycled OSB and beer cans and the guy right next door will not be installing a 300' turbine anytime soon.

For those of us with relatively small lots (sub 1 acre) living not far from large cities you really have to think about these things when you buy. Homes, for most of us, are the biggest single investements we'll ever make. As such, for many people, HOA's are a sound tool we can use to protect that investement. If I could have had the house I have now sitting on 10 acres with less than a 2 hour drive from work, sure, I would have loved the additional freedom. But if you want a 20 minute drive, a decent house, and a not-so-impressive 0.75 acres you may have to concede on the HOA membership. At least where I'm from this is true.

Just my two cents. I do live in an HOA. I am not on the board. I've never had a problem with them.

What do you have against guys who leave their Chevy Beretta's on blocks? I happen to like wind turbines and I've been saving my PBR cans to use on my shed.

Ed

 

[BlindViper]

the way you posted the first pictures is fine

 

[Danver]

Not all HOA's are created equal and not all are "bad". I find it a bit surprising so many folks have negative views of them. Their ultimate goal, whether you believe it or not, is the protect property values for every owner through maintenance, risk mitigation and "quality control". .

And the government is here to make our lives easier and is solely responsible if we are successful in starting and maintaining a business. As citizens we are incapable of making intelligent decisions regarding how we run our lives.

 

[Ironcrow]

Just buy the house next door and turn it into a garage/shop.

 

[6t5Goat]

As requested GTO Pictures..

At this stage.. I'm playing nice with the HOA..

Something is being built and I'll start a build thread once I start construction

 

[6t5Goat]

And a pic of my 69 Chevelle..

 

[EOC_Jason]

Ooooooooooo.... Nice!

 

[Stee6043]

And the government is here to make our lives easier and is solely responsible if we are successful in starting and maintaining a business. As citizens we are incapable of making intelligent decisions regarding how we run our lives.

I'd love to see an intelligent explanation of the parellels between an HOA and the federal government. Good luck!

 

[DekeT]

And the government is here to make our lives easier and is solely responsible if we are successful in starting and maintaining a business. As citizens we are incapable of making intelligent decisions regarding how we run our lives.

He did not even hint anything like that. Congrats for totally ignoring the point and taking the wild extreme.

 

[Danver]

I'd love to see an intelligent explanation of the parellels between an HOA and the federal government. Good luck!

If you can't see the parallel being others making your decisions for you then sorry, I can't help you. But thanks for playing.

 

[DekeT]

If you can't see the parallel being others making your decisions for you then sorry, I can't help you. But thanks for playing.

The decision was made by the OP to VOLUNTARILY join the HOA. He agreed to abide by the rules.

We get your point, as misplaced as it is.

 

[Stee6043]

If you can't see the parallel being others making your decisions for you then sorry, I can't help you. But thanks for playing.

Ha. Okay. You win? I had no idea HOA's, while 100% voluntary and participation never required ever anywhere unless you choose to participate, was somehow akin to buying into big government. Step away from the Fox News man.

FWIW I am exceedingly conservative on most topics and your attemp to lump HOA's into some kind of big brother / big government entity is misguided at best, flat out naive at worst. I was sharing an opinion based on personal experience. I'm not sure what you are doing.

 

[Mister Moose]

Speaking from a different state, but laws tend to run similarly in other states...

As others have said, read the declaration or covenants. Thoroughly. From what I've read here so far, You need to show that your addition fits 'harmoniously' in the community. That means similar architecture, maintains a residential look, not commercial or industrial, looks like a natural extension of the house, etc etc.

If there are no specific requirements on maximum garage size, they cannot deny you arbitrarily. The usual test in court is that it has to be reasonable. If the addition looks good and does not decrease property values, then it is reasonable. If you plan a 12x20 roll up door, that might be seen as not a residential look and not rbe reasonable.

You can take the build it anyway approach, and the HOA may fine you. The burden is then on them to start enforcement, and eventually they (and you) will need to hire a lawyer to arbitrate if their standard is reasonable. You risk losing, and you will not be able to sell the property without a clear resale certificate from the HOA until it is settled.

You can take the get approval first method, (Usually best) and if they unreasonably withold approval, you can take them to court. A lawyer will be able to advise you if your plans for the garage are reasonable or not, and what similar case law exists in your state. Find a lawyer well versed on real estate and HOA issues. This will obviously add to your costs, your attorney fees are not recoverable. An attorney showing up at a board meeting citing chapter and verse on applicable case law should carry a fair bit of weight with the board.

Pressure can be brought to bear from the community as well. The residents don't want to be footing the legal bill for a spurious lawsuit, and they may pressure the board to adopt a more reasonable approach.

Good luck. You are going to need to expend a fair bit of effort one way or another, and spend some additional money on getting accurate drawings and legal advice.

 

[92GreenYJ]

I would never want to kill anyone...therefore I will never live in a HOA.

Ditto! I've read enough HOA horror stories online to know that they are not for me. Wife and I will begin house hunting for our first home in a few months. Real estate agent will be made fully aware not to show us anything with an HOA. I won't even look

 

[EOC_Jason]

You can fight an HOA and often win. Many are overstepping their bounds and judges are coming down hard telling them not to micromanage their subdivision and let people use and enjoy their property's...

Here is one example where a family had a pot bellied pig as a pet. The HOA considered it livestock... The HOA was trying to generalize pigs in the most general sense and not the specific type of pig the family had, which has become very popular as pets. Needless to say the HOA lost and the family got to keep their pet. It's sad that something as simple as a pig would end up in court for months, especially when nobody had a problem with it except the few people that make up the HOA board.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

Not all HOA's are the same.

I would urge all prospective homeowners who are exploring this option to thoroughly check out the HOA itself before committing to live under it. In my case, my HOA covers 39 single-family residences that is part of a 80 home (approx.) tract. Apparently each development phase got its own HOA for some reason. The dues are only $70/year, which is great, but the downside is nothing gets done. Only 2 slots on the 5 person board are occupied. Rules on RV parking and other things are going unenforced. There's a couple of bank-owned properties that are severely distressed. In other words, people are acting like there's no HOA, and for all intents and purposes, there isn't.

 

[blkhonda1991]

Not all HOA's are the same.

I would urge all prospective homeowners who are exploring this option to thoroughly check out the HOA itself before committing to live under it. In my case, my HOA covers 39 single-family residences that is part of a 80 home (approx.) tract. Apparently each development phase got its own HOA for some reason. The dues are only $70/year, which is great, but the downside is nothing gets done. Only 2 slots on the 5 person board are occupied. Rules on RV parking and other things are going unenforced. There's a couple of bank-owned properties that are severely distressed. In other words, people are acting like there's no HOA, and for all intents and purposes, there isn't.

may as well band all the owners together and vote to get rid of the HOA and get rid of it permanently and save 70$

 

[cgall]

Pay off your mortgage and you can resign from the HOA.

 

[BlindViper]

My step father sold his goat shortly before he died. Since you are in maryland I thought yours might have been his. But its not.

 

[ZRX61]

What should be my next step with my HOA?

Hire a lawyer and fight for my dream? Or..

Sell the place & move.

 

[buddyboy]

I would take a survey of your adjoining neighbors and if they are in "harmony" with what you are doing get them to sign off on a letter or something you can use in court.

then ask the HOA if there is anyone (specifically) in the neighborhood against it, or are they just assuming that someone will not like your new addition and just trying to avoid complaints.

if no one states they are against it, or if only a very small % of your neighbors are against it, you can claim that their denial is unjust.

if any of your adjoining neighbors is opposed to your plans the HOA may have a case about maintaining harmony.

good luck.

 

[ozyborn]

Play nice, have a chat with a lawyer on it if you must. That being said.

Living on a farm next to this HOA development. I have a lot of fun. Have a wonderful small lake on my property with a great view. When I built another barn I put it smack in the middle of their view of my private pond. I use that barn now for rebuilding older tractors. Needless to say they were unhappy but not much they can do. My family was here for over 100 years before they arrived next door.

 

[Duck tape Bill]

Wow.. Harmonious relationship is listed in the Declaration of Covenants...

Can be denied For any other reasons which would interfere with the harmonious relationship among existing or proposed structures, the natural vegeation and topography of the community or which adversely affects property values in the vicinity of the improvement..

How's that for vague?

A good lawyer would have a field day with that... sounds like they would have to prove that your new garage would do those things before they could deny it.

My parents neighborhood has a HOA with LOTS of stupid rules, like if you own a boat it can only be on your property if it's not visible from the street. Many years ago my parents neighbor decided to fight that rule because he couldn't get his boat in the back yard without knocking down his neighbors fence. So he asked the HOA nicely to make an exception, they said NO. So he got a copy of covenants and made a long list of all the people (some on the HOA board) who were in violation of various rules, then he and his lawyer met with the HOA board and threatened to sue them for discrimination unless they either gave him an exemption or fixed all the other violations...... in the end he got his exemption.

I'm not sure you would want to go that rout, but it is something to think about if you know there are other violations that are out there.

 

[6t5Goat]

My step father sold his goat shortly before he died. Since you are in maryland I thought yours might have been his. But its not.

No.. Mines a post coupe.. that is a hardtop.. I bought mine in 2003 from a family friend.. I first rode in mine.. when I was three years old.. So I've know it my whole life..

Your step fathers car looks VERY nice.. I wish mine was half that nice..