HOA - shed / tool/storage room

[JavierD]

Good Evening

I purchased a home in a deed restriction community in Haines City, Fl. Few months ago I submitted an application to install a fence , and the application was approved. In my verbal communication with the manager I shared my intention to build a shed , or tool/storage room. I also ask if I need a permission from the board directors to build this. The Manager told me that is not necessary but need to be level with the fence. Relied in this communication I built the shed or tool/storage room, but the pitch is higher than the fence .

A General Contractor was making addition in my neighbor house called the HOA and made a complaint. After that I went to the office and met the manager , who told me that the issue is that you can see the pitch from the playground. She told me that they will try a find a solution to my problem

15 days letter I received a letter from them permitting me 30 days to remove the additional structure. The letter said that shed is not allow and tool/storage room as well.

The bylaws read as following

Section 4. Temporary Structures and use

No structure of a temporary character , trailer, shack, shed, garage, barn or other building shall be moved to erected on or used on any of the lands within the community at any time for a residence, workshop, office, storage room, either permanently or temporarily .....

In addition the bylaws said

Building Type:

No building shall be erected altered, placed, or permitted to remain on any lot other than one detached single family residence , not to exceed 35 feet in height , including a private closed garage for not less than two no more than fours cars. Unless approved by the committee as to use, location and architectural design, no garage, tool or storage room my be constructed separate and apart from the residence, nor can any of the aforementioned structures be constructed prior to the main residence.


My Shed, or tool/storage room has a foundation (18inches) therefore is not a temporary structure.

The HOA letter said , that the new structure behind to my home is considered by the board of directors a tool/storage room that is separate and apart from the residence, which is not permitted in the community .


In my opinion , the bylaws said unless approved by , instead to no permitted. I am no have a written permits since I relied in the manager verbal communication .

The cost of my Structure was $8,000 and removing the structure from the lot cost me $4,500.00. This is a new community and therefore no owners allow to be part of the HOA . I waiting for a hearing to try find a solution without removing the structure


Your input will be appreciate.

Javier

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

FYI, this thread will get ugly quick, as we on GJ hate HOA's.

And, I will be the first to sound ugly. Sorry. You should have had a copy of the rules. They say very clearly that you can't have a detached shed of any kind. So, you spent $8,000 on a verbal OK. Bad, bad, bad idea.

And HOA's ****, and why anyone who wants a shed or workshop would live in one I don't know. Before I bought one of my houses that had a HOA I picked through that thing to make sure I was ok. You should have done the same.

You are SOL.

Oh, and you broke the verbal OK by making it higher than the fence anyway. I mean, really, come on man!

*EDIT* OK, I've always been told to try and provide a solution. I stand by what I said above, but perhaps in the future a garage "bump out" might be allowed as it's part of the permanent structure. You can bump out a few feet to make a nice tool shed that you can access from both inside or outside the garage. Looks like you can have up to a 4-car garage too, so maybe you could really bump it out.

 

[MScott]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Is there any way to take the shed off the foundation and put it on "temporary" skids so that it is no longer a "permanent" structure? You would still have to demo the foundation.

 

[Foxxtrot]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Is there any way to take the shed off the foundation and put it on "temporary" skids so that it is no longer a "permanent" structure? You would still have to demo the foundation.

Wouldn't matter, as the laws clearly state that you can not have a temporary structure of any type.


What kind of shed is this that cost $8000 to build and $4500 to demolish? I have had 1200 square foot houses demolished for that kind of money. I am sorry you are dealing with this, and I can't believe that they won't allow a simple tool shed if it is decent looking, but it looks like "Displaced Hokie" is right. I think you will lose this battle.

 

[AZ Pete]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

I had a similar problem, however my shed did not extend above the fence. I worked out a solution with the HOA (read developer, since there were not enough residents to out vote him), by putting up a short section of block fence (same as around each lot) that screened the shed from the view of the spec. home that the developer owned behind our house. The shed was not visible from the house, but if you looked over the fence it was, therefore the fence to screen their view. By the way, my shed had the same design elements of the house, so far as finish materials, roofing, color.

Maybe they would allow you to raise your fence, or lower your roof line? If not look to moving it off of the foundation and attaching it to the side of your house, so as not to be a separate building.

It's a pain, but you have to read the CC&R's and get written approval for anything that isn't specifically approved in them. We even had to get written approval of landscape plans, plants and house color change, and will have to get approval if we change anything that isn't approved. However, when the residents take control of the HOA things will likely mellow.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

This is why you don't buy houses in HOA areas

 

[LSU]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

I think you've got an issue that is going to be resolved in favor of the HOA.

I think you've got an option of going to court to fight it or taking the shed down.

I'm not familar with HOA laws in Florida but one item you might want to look at (and you're going to need a lawyer for this) is if the HOA has constantly maintained the deed restrictions. If the restrictions have not been enforced for some period of time then under applicable Florida law, the restrictions might have lapsed. I've dealt with HOA before and there are specfic rules for what HOA's have to do - Board meetings, publish minutes, etc. - if they have rules they've got to follow the rules of the State of Florida regarding HOA.

If the HOA has been "good" about following the rules of the State of Florida then you might have a serious problem.

 

[Kevin54]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

A General Contractor was making addition in my neighbor house called the HOA and made a complaint. After that I went to the office and met the manager , who told me that the issue is that you can see the pitch from the playground. She told me that they will try a find a solution to my problem

There is the first problem right there. Someone that can't or won't mind their own frickin' business.

This is a new community and therefore no owners allow to be part of the HOA .

There is the second problem. They don't want anyone new because the rules would probably be changed and not to their liking. How long will this stand as far as new owners or existing owners?

I waiting for a hearing to try find a solution without removing the structure

I'd wait it out. Then make sure you have your guns loaded when you go to the hearing. Have all the fact. And make it clear to them that you did have a go ahead for the project. If he denies ever giving you the okay, I'd make it very clear that he most certainly did give a verbal okay. Make sure you have the date and approximate time, and location the conversation took place.

Good Luck. You'll need it for this fight.

And I curious also....how did it cost $8000 to build and it's going to cost $4500 to remove?

 

[tolken4]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

How far is this from your house? Can you attach it to your house since it is on a foundation making it addition. I am sure permitting would be required, but it may be cheaper and get you your toolroom?

Also, if it comes to it, don't tear that thing down. Sell it on craigslist. I would list it now, just in case you get some offers. May lesson the pain. You will still lose money, but they would pay for removing it and probably some towards your initial loss.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Just remember to be as polite as you can, if you tick them off then they have NO reason to say "yes" to your little shed.

A verbal contract is still a contract, but next time... get it in writing, even if it's just a hand written on a napkin...

 

[wornoutoldman]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Bang his wife...

 

[Falcon67]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

This has nothing to do with HOA hate - the bylaws are pretty clear. Well, having lived with an HOA in the past - according to the bylaws, which you should have read, you have nothing to stand on. The only thing you might get on with would be if they failed to give you those bylaws at closing. If they give you a pass that's a good thing. As you learn the hard way, never, ever, ever take verbal assent from an official anybody as an affirmative confirmation, always get it in writing.

 

[ludakris04]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

I think I would start by going to the developer and try to find some common ground. I know there is alot of HOA hate here, but developers of a new community dont necessarily want to piss off the home owners (new customers). There may be a solution that they would be happy with.
I am moving into a community and I have noticed things that I was not happy with. I discussed them with the builder and had legitimate concerns. They actually changed some of the "rules" going forward to basically accomidate my concerns.
Developers are not selling homes like they used to, they want happy customers. If they are the only ones on the board, they have the power to make the rules. This could work in your favor if approached accordingly.

 

[justsam]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

It does not sound good for you.

You might take a look around your neighborhood and see if "exceptions" have been made to others. It does not have to be a building but other things that are in non-complicance. My personal pick of unattractive temporary structures are those portable basketball hoops. Talk about making a development ugly!

 

[shannonw]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

IMHO sheds in communities generally have a bad name and are universally fround upon..I'd be freaking amazed if you got to keep it. They've got this down, no sheds, typically garage doors have to stay closed and they limit the height of fences (so raising that or even a section may or may not be an option?). I found that Colorado hoa forbiding sidewalk chalk hilarious.

However there are some exceptional designs (think modern sheds, ones with landscaping around them) that look really nice to me...i've seen nicer ones than the house! This is also why they have policies that garage doors stay closed as they're packed to the gills especially in florida with no basements. it's crazy to me...they should regulate the style of storage not just a blanket statement, but my bet is this is one you won't win (but hopefully i'm wrong).

 

[graffix000]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Sounds like a crappy situation. Only positive that you have is it is on a foundation, making it a permanent structure.

Did kind of shoot yourself in the foot by making the pitch higher then you were told. I second the contractor telling garage. What a **** thing to do. I'd be watching them like a hawk to try and make their life miserable if they are still working there.

 

[Stee6043]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Heck of a first post.

I don't see this as an HOA "issue" at all. The HOA might as well be your local building inspector. You failed to read the rules (laws) before building the shed, you went on a "verbal" with no written confirmation and now you're paying the price.

I see no gray area in this statement from your original post - "no garage, tool or storage room my be constructed separate and apart from the residence". Of course there is the "unless approved" statement but I think your two minute conversation will never count as " use, location and architectural design" approval.

Good luck with your fight. You should know going in that you have almost no leg to stand on here. Obviously you had the bylaws before you started...

 

[MileHigh]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

I 2nd the comment that you may have invited trouble by making the pitch higher than discussed. My old HOA had a rule of no more than 6" above the fence. A little flexible there with choices.

I just moved in my new home and the builder still does have the majority of the HOA votes, but not for too much longer. I need to start reading through the all the documents too see what I can come up with. I'd really like just a small compressor shed attached to the side, we'll see.

Lawyer up if your shed and demo really costs that much. Lawyers may be evil, but sure better than the HOA!

 

[Kevin54]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

Bang his wife...

Well, THERE YA GO

 

[Krash Kadillak]

"No building shall be erected altered, placed, or permitted to remain on any lot other than one detached single family residence , not to exceed 35 feet in height , including a private closed garage for not less than two no more than fours cars. Unless approved by the committee as to use, location and architectural design, no garage, tool or storage room my be constructed separate and apart from the residence, nor can any of the aforementioned structures be constructed prior to the main residence."

Javier - It won't mean much what we post here. The HOA board holds all the cards. Looks to me though that you're S-O-L. 1) Not approved by the comittee, and 2) Not attached to your residence.

 

[signcrafter]

I don't have any input about what you should do but 4500 to tear down a shed?!! Is this thing solid concrete?

 

[JDishong]

The only chance I see is to try to apply for a variance and you'll need to justify why you are asking for this. Get on Google Maps (Satellite Mode) and inspect the entire community for other lots that may have been granted permission for a variance or even other illegal structures.

 

[gunguy]

The community I've lived in for the past 20 years or so is 500+ houses with an HOA that has been pretty benign for that time.

We recently received a letter from them concerning sheds stating there are about 25 homeowners out of compliance. But instead of just re-stating the "no shed" policy, they are proposing changing the policy to allow sheds that conform to certain guidelines such as location, size, using materials the match the house, etc., etc. In the letter they included a form to sign indicating whether you agreed or not.

Perhaps you could canvass the neighborhood with a petition to present to the HOA. My guess you will find many of your neighbors would agree with you.

This won't please the HOA haters, but short of moving, your current position is pretty weak in my opinion.

What do you have to lose?

Respectfully,

Jim

 

[7th Kahuna]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

This is why you don't buy houses in HOA areas

And people actually ask why I live in the old part of town . . .

 

[nehog]

Couple of points...

1. Please stop saying 'verbal', the term is oral! Verbal means 'of words' and all contracts and agreements are of words. Contracts are either written, or oral. This one was oral amendment to a written contract. That doesn't fly.

2. Contracts dealing with real property generally need to be written.

3. IMHO, you are not going to win. The rules are clear, you agreed in writing to them.

4. You are not telling us everything. Pictures would be useful.

5. IMHO, you are not going to win, so how much time and money do you want to waste.

(everyone should read his original post again, I'd guess a third of the suggestions are meaningless for reasons that he's stated.)

 

[porschedude996TT]

How in the hell does a contractor who is working on another property get a fiddlers fart of a vote?

I would hound this SOB for years with the Code Enforcement, HOA, and the dog catcher.

 

[Danver]

While I still think HOAs are a joke and it isn't likely I would ever consider living in an area that had one, in this case the HOA isn't the problem. Even if the verbal...errr oral agreement is upheld, the conditions of that were also not met since the shed is higher than the fence. Not a very smart move there.


If it were me, when I realized the shed was going to be too tall I would have quietly and quickly made the fence taller and hoped nobody would notice.

It would be interesting to know how tall both the fence and the shed are.

 

[KEH]

After reading these threads on HOAs I've concluded that if you are going to BUILD in a HOA development you may as well fill up the lot with a building to begin with and put your garage, storage, etc under one roof so you won't have to deal with the nazis.

Someone did something like that in a historic neighbor hood, with lots of restrictions, in a city near me. Someone bought a house and lot and, after getting permits, tore down the house and cut the trees off the lot. This is SC and trees grow like weeds. Some of the neighbors complained about cutting the nice trees and probably the old house being torn down, but the owners had their ducks in a row and went on with their plans. Most of the lot is now covered with house or a walled in space, with part of the house being a 4 car garage. Hard to mess with people with money(did I say the house is a rather large one story?)

KEH

 

[EOC_Jason]

How in the hell does a contractor who is working on another property get a fiddlers fart of a vote?

I would hound this SOB for years with the Code Enforcement, HOA, and the dog catcher.

He was probably pissed that HE didn't get hired to do the shed... Seriously, what contractor knows each subdivision's deed restrictions?!?!?!?!?!

 

[MoparTrucks]

Man I cant imagine what its like to be told what you can or cant do on your own property like that...particularly by a neighborhood group of do-gooders. But as others have pointed out, you signed the papers.

 

[nehog]

... Seriously, what contractor knows each subdivision's deed restrictions?!?!?!?!?!

Uh, the contractor who is behind the entire subdivision? The one who is investing money to build these houses? The one who paid the lawyer to write the deed restrictions? The one who will lose big if he can't sell the houses? HOAs don't build the houses, the contractor does. The HOA is how the contractor controls the buyers so he can sell the houses in the most optimal market.

 

[scott3257]

Ahh yeah good ole HOA's.....

My thought... Get your neighbors to sign a petition stating your shed does not affect their quality of life etc. My HOA rules state; no jungle gyms, sheds, BB courts, etc, which can be seen above the top of the fence without prior approval. Only way to get HOA board approval is to have all your neighbors sign off on a petition stating your WHATEVER is ok and it does not bother them.

Im surprised the contractor next door dimed you out.

 

[SyTyJim]

Re: Hoa - shed / tool/storage room

How far is this from your house? Can you attach it to your house since it is on a foundation making it addition. I am sure permitting would be required, but it may be cheaper and get you your toolroom?

This is what I did. I have an HOA as well and didnt allow 'sheds' of any kind, but I was allowed to make an 'addition' to my house. Had to get a permit from the city, etc. and it was approved by my HOA. The only entrance is going out my back door in my garage and into the door of the shed.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

 

[Rodhotz]

I smell a troll here. He signed up the day he made the post, it is his only post and he has not been back on the board since the post was made on the 18th.

 

[Stee6043]

Couple of points...

1. Please stop saying 'verbal', the term is oral! Verbal means 'of words' and all contracts and agreements are of words. Contracts are either written, or oral. This one was oral amendment to a written contract. That doesn't fly.

2. Contracts dealing with real property generally need to be written.

3. IMHO, you are not going to win. The rules are clear, you agreed in writing to them.

4. You are not telling us everything. Pictures would be useful.

5. IMHO, you are not going to win, so how much time and money do you want to waste.

(everyone should read his original post again, I'd guess a third of the suggestions are meaningless for reasons that he's stated.)

ver·bal   /ˈvɜrbəl/ Show Spelled[vur-buhl]
adjective
1. of or pertaining to words: verbal ability.
2. consisting of or in the form of words: verbal imagery.
3. expressed in spoken words; oral rather than written: verbal communication; verbal agreement.
4. consisting of or expressed in words (as opposed to actions): a verbal protest.
5. pertaining to or concerned with words only (as opposed to ideas, facts, or realities): a purely verbal distinction between two concepts.

So many places reference both verbal and oral agreements I don't think you'll ever convince the general public to "please stop saying verbal". But good luck in your quest!

 

[Stee6043]

Man I cant imagine what its like to be told what you can or cant do on your own property like that...particularly by a neighborhood group of do-gooders. But as others have pointed out, you signed the papers.

It's no different than having local building codes, zoing laws, etc. It's just another set of rules HOA members sign up for...we're all restricted to a certain extent. Even those not in an HOA.

 

[nehog]

ver·bal   /ˈvɜrbəl/ Show Spelled[vur-buhl]
adjective
1. of or pertaining to words: verbal ability.
...
I don't think you'll ever convince the general public to "please stop saying verbal". But good luck in your quest!

Thanks! I won't succeed, but I keep trying.

On the topic at hand... This is a new development, and there is no way that he'd be able to change things. Once the builder/contractor has sold all the houses, he may have a chance, but right now he is locked into what he agreed to.

I think he's learned a very expensive lesson: get it in writing!

 

[EOC_Jason]

Uh, the contractor who is behind the entire subdivision? The one who is investing money to build these houses? The one who paid the lawyer to write the deed restrictions? The one who will lose big if he can't sell the houses? HOAs don't build the houses, the contractor does. The HOA is how the contractor controls the buyers so he can sell the houses in the most optimal market.

Well yeah if it was a contractor for the home-builder of the subdivision I could *possibly* see that, though even then those construction crews don't give two flips about anything else going on, they just build a home to the plans specs (if you are lucky)... And usually are working several areas at once.

But from his first post he said just "A General Contractor was making addition in my neighbor house..." which I took that to mean like some handy-man... Which is why I thought maybe there was some sort of ill-will by that person reporting the shed...

Anyhow.....

 

[Summergirl]

I wish I could offer you a really good idea but I've been through hell with a similar situation. I'll tell my story so maybe you can learn what not to do.

I live in in older subdivision (built in 90's) in which the homeowner's have taken over the HOA. Naturally, the "rules" have become less followed as a whole. I needed extra storage space so I put up a very nice shed behind my garage (barely visible from the road) that matched my house. I didn't think anything of it since others in my neighborhood had similar sheds for many years. After my shed was up for six months, the HOA management company sent me a letter saying it had to come down in 15 days. I checked the covenant and sure enough it says no sheds. So I sent a letter showing pictures of other sheds that have been in place for many years (one of which is on the property of an HOA board member). I was sure they would back down. Instead, they sent me another letter "thanking me for pointing out other offenses" and said I still had to take mine down. Then the HOA went around the neighborhood and made everyone take down sheds (except for the board member...his is still up to this day).

Several months after the shed incident I sent an architectural request to put a small 8 foot fence behind my garage thinking that if I couldn't have a shed I would find another way to make a storage area (the fence literally squared off my house and did not protrude into the side or back yard). I made sure I read all of the HOA documents and covenants posted on the HOA website before submitting the application. They never responded in writing within 30 days as indicated in the covenant...so after two months of waiting (I called the management company to make sure they had received the application) I put it up. I stained it and landscaped around it. Several months after that I got a letter saying my fence was in violation because only 6 foot was allowed. I questioned it saying that nowhere in the covenant is the height specified. They sent me a list of "rules" they made up for perimeter fences. I pointed out this was not a perimeter fence. They also said I did not have their permission to put anything up and it would all have to be removed. I brought up the 30 days but they just ignored me, turned me over to the HOA lawyer who started sending threatening letters.

Again, I pointed out other fences in the community that are above 6 feet. I got a lawyer and we argued that they did not respond in 30 days and did not follow the covenant. Also, we pointed out how they were letting some people have sheds and 8 foot fences but not others. I had really good documentation of everything but my lawyer advised me that if I went to court I would have a 50/50 shot of winning...not because I was not right...but because the system can be corrupt. Judges often rule in favor of HOAs. Also, HOA's often get away with making up "architectural rules" from week to week to defend their actions. At this point all of this was becoming very stressful for my family and expensive. If we went to court and lost, we could end up paying $20-40,000 for a $2500 fence (if you lose you will most likely have to pay the HOA lawyer's fees as well as your own). So we decided not to gamble that much money and we had our lawyer negotiate to make the 8 foot fence 6 foot. If they would not agree to that I was going to take them to court since hundreds of 6 foot fences could be found in our neighborhood. They reluctantly agreed to the compromise. But...our neighbors have told me that the HOA president has been spotted snooping on my property while we were not home...most likely trying to see what I am storing and making sure I do not have another shed in there.

Recently I found out that a busy body neighbor (who has not lived there very long...I have lived in my house 11 years) down the street started this whole thing. She turned us in to the HOA for having a shed and started bragging about it. I do not know this woman or even what she looks like. But I have caught her vehicle on several occasions stopped on the side of my house. Apparently she is just a trouble maker and for some reason hates sheds. Why she moved into my neighborhood I cannot figure out.

So what have I learned? Unless you have really good state or local laws, HOA's can get away with just about anything. They really have no one they have to report to when they are corrupt or unfair. Also, it is very hard to get neighbors to rally against them, mainly due to fear and apathy. Also, HOA management companies work for the HOA board members, not for the homeowners. HOA lawyers will play very dirty to get their way and keep the business of the HOA. Fighting all of this can be draining.

If I could go back, I would not have bought a shed but instead tried to add on to my house (with HOA approval and local permits). Now that I am on their radar I doubt they will give me permission for much of anything.

I do know some other people who have dug out an area and lowered their sheds and used trees to hide them. But, as soon as a jealous and/or shed-hating busy body neighbor spots it...I'm sure they will run and tell the HOA. You just can't trust your neighbors...or your HOA.

The best advice I can give anyone...if at all possible... do not buy a home with an HOA (or a home in a community that could create one at a later point). As soon as you sign that covenant you sign away your constitutional rights. You are no longer an American. It is like living in a socialistic, cookie-cutter society. As much as I love my house...it ***** living here. Some people will argue that HOA's keep up property value and serve a great purpose...but, most towns and cities already have pretty strict ordinances for things like landscaping, house colors, etc... and most of what HOA's provide is not even necessary.

 

[EOC_Jason]

For me, if you can't see it from the road, then what business is it of others what is in your backyard? I mean, I've seen PLAYGROUNDS that are taller than the fence line? Trampolines? and other such things... So what makes a shed illegal but those legal?