Hoist Mounting Suggestions

[LimitedReality]

Good Morning All,

I've googled and searched GJ threads but have found none that address my specific questions. I'd like to mount a 1300lb. harbor freight electric hoist for lifting things out of my truck bed and potentially pulling a motor at some point. I can't imagine I'll ever exceed 700 lbs. with most things being under 400. When I had my garage built I had them engineer to 60lbs. psf for the floor above. While it's not ideal placement I figured it'd be safest to mount the hoist on or near the beam in the center of the garage (pictured).

Upstairs I have a wood working shop with tools along the outside perimeter and a large bench and cabinet saw in the middle so most of the equipment is out towards the walls.

I've read that lagging into the bottom of the joists compromises strength more than going through the middle of them. I figured I'd hang this from a piece of unitstrut spanning 4-6 rafters (right along where the beam is) but looking at right angle brackets for unistrut they all are too short to get me up to the middle of the joist.

I also thought about lagging a 3'-6' long 6"x6"x3/8" piece of angle into the lvl below where the joists are hung and bolting the hoist to the bottom of that but worried about putting a bunch of 1/2 lags into the beam that low would also be detrimental to the support across the overall span.

Thoughts on the safest way to attach the hoist for those weight loads in this particular scenario?

Thanks!

 

[Kaizen]

I would not try pulling an engine with this setup suggestion. Use an engine hoist for that.
The hf ac winch comes with mounting brackets. I would tty and use bolts up through that mount and up through the floor to a plate mounted on top of a long 1/4 inch wall 2x4 piece of steel.
Have it long enough to cover four floor joists which will spread the load.
Obvious issues are trip hazard in workshop but you could just have the support slip in when needed.

Second option. Same idea but make slits over the exposed support beam and slip steel through like a few 1/8 straps.

I would not be lagging or such into anything. Maybe in a pinch but not as a plan


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[matt_i]

It appears that your cross-LVL setup where the opener is hung sits on columns of its own (?)

I would just loop around that LVL with a flat web sling or roung sling in an inverted basket configuration and you are all set to go. May take some custom parts to adapt to the setup on the backplate of the HF hoist but a chainfall or lever hoist would easily adapt to the sling.

Another possibility is to set something like an S4 x 7.7# I-beam overhead and then use a trolley.

Best practice imo for SPF/LVL aside from looping-over/bearing-on the top surface, is to drill the neutral axis vertical centerline of the cross-section) and use machine bolts to sandwich steel on both sides of the wooden member.

 

[sgdawson]

I used a stick of unistrut to support a chain hoist and distribute the load across multiple joists. The chain hoist rides on a trolley rated for 600#. The joists are 2x12s joined on the upper side by 7/8" tongue and groove plywood subflooring. The hanger brackets are lagged into the 2x12s.

I use this to transfer a 450# engine between a hydraulic lift table and engine stand.

Trolley and hangers are from McMaster.

 

[Innovate1]

Bolts through the floor will still transfer the load to the beam so just complicates things. Might as well connect directly to the beam. A few bolts horizontally through the beam halfway between top and bottom will not weaken it if the location and size is done right. That location is in shear only and not tension or compression and the shear is spread out over the length of the beam. A plate on each side of the beam with several bolts through at beam mid height. Then some connection between the plates below the beam to hang the hoist from. You should be able to look up allowed drilling for LVLs. Here is the basic detail on where it is allowed although it states it is for electrical and plumbing, not attachment of loads. This is just a general idea - allowable loading of the beam and connections should be verified.

https://www.bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/LVL-1-Versa-Lam-Hole-Chart.pdf

 

[Renegade1LI]

I think if you have the head room I would consider a gantry, like the HF sells, adjustable height & can rolled around. I have an 2000lb vestil aluminum gantry & once you get used to them it's a pleasure to have, just a thought.

 

[Innovate1]

I have though a gantry would be very useful. The HF one is only about 93" between posts though and I think a full 8' would be good as it would straddle trailers and such.

 

[LimitedReality]

Lot of ideas so far, thank you guys.

@sgdawson - I've seen several folks post that they're successful with unistrut so that's why I was considering that route. Could ya link me to what kind of hangers you used successfully?

To the folks that suggested going above the joists, my concern is tripping hazard as mentioned. It's right in the area I work in most. If I used thick flat bar I could probably drill holes and weld a pieces of 1" steel round to stick down through the floor to attach to but the welds become a critical failure point then.

A gantry is DEFINITELY the right idea but this is something I'm going to use once or twice a year at most and I can't really spare the floor space. There is only about 2.5' of space between my truck and the wall to the left as is to walk by.

I like the idea of looping over the LVL with something as I can keep whatever is looped over it below floor level above. The question becomes what? The flat web strapping scares me a bit as over time I worry about the strength of the material as it ages vs. steel. Maybe some long u bolts? Or bend some steel into a U to wrap it like @matt_i said. I just don't know about 1/8th steel being strong enough? Anything bigger than that however and I don't have a means to bend it.

Anyone know what a steel U bracket wide, deep, and strong enough for that idea might be called?

 

[Innovate1]

How are you going to get room to put the strap over the beam? You don't want to notch the beam and anything above is going to push the floor up unless you recess the bottom of the floor or use thinner flooring. That's a lot of work. Just drill the beam. It's an approved method as long as it's done within the guidelines.

 

[LimitedReality]

How are you going to get room to put the strap over the beam? You don't want to notch the beam and anything above is going to push the floor up unless you recess the bottom of the floor or use thinner flooring. That's a lot of work. Just drill the beam. It's an approved method as long as it's done within the guidelines.

Was thinking I'd cut out square sections of the plywood where it over lapped the beam. I plan to put wood flooring over the plywood once I accumulate enough leftovers to do the whole upstairs so for those tiny sections it'd only have the hardwood. Not a big deal.

My main concern is compromising the LVL in anyway since it supports the whole shebang.

 

[sgdawson]

Unistrut Channel Trolley Brackets
link

 

[LimitedReality]

@sgdawson how did you attach those to the joists?

 

[ace10]

Mount the track within the joist bay. Just as you've done with your lights.

 

[LimitedReality]

Ok, I think I've decided what I plan to do.

I picked up a 1300lb hoist today from harborfreight. In reviewing the mounting hardware for it (which is more than double what I actually need) I realized I'm likely overthinking how much support this needs.

I have some 1/4" plate left over from my welding table build so I plan to cut out two 8.5" x 16" plates. Drill 8 3/8th holes in each. Cut out a 8.5" x 16" section of the 3/4" subfloor upstairs and sandwich these two plates with the LVL beam in between. I'll use 3/8 threaded rod to connect them both with one nut on top to ensure it's not above the final flooring material (maybe weld it on) and 2 below to lock in place).

I'll drill 4 holes in the bottom plate to mount the hoist to and be done with it.

Thoughts?

 

[pbon]

I am about to do something like this. I bought the 880 lb HF hoist and an 8’ strut with 2 rollers to attach the hoist to. I bought 3 mounting brackets for the strut. My attic has eves so the ends of the strut will be supported by steel rod hanging from 2x6 in the attic spreading the load over 3 joists. I have an 8’ wide plywood floor down the middle and may swap a steel plate for a narrow strip of plywood in the middle. I’ll drop 1/2 threaded rod down to the 3 mounting brackets that will be on the 2nd floor ceiling. There is a 4x6 trap door down to the 1st floor. I don’t need to get stuff to the attic; just from the 1st floor to the 2nd floor. Gets old hauling stuff up the stairs. I have a lift and engine hoist as well, but even if I ride the lift up 7’, I still have 3’ to lift to get through the trap door.

 

[matt_i]

Ideally the threaded rods would be tight to the beam-stack, to reduce bending of the plate.

Think of a U-shaped flat bar that was hot-bent to custom-slip-fit over top of the beam-stack.

A thicker plate could eliminate the need to put hex nuts on top of it (drill + tap) but would also eat into the plywood.

I was thinking you could probably drill & tap for "wings" to support the plywood edges. The sawn hole is pretty small and you have 3/4" ply but just to be sure its rock-solid that would be helpful.

 

[LimitedReality]

@matt_i I agree that the threaded rod should be tight to the beam and on the one side I can do that, the other however I have conduit running the electric to the garage door opener outlet so I have to clear that. I have some spare 1/4" 2"x2" angle I could weld on the one edge to brace against the beam to minimize deflection down.

The heated flat bar was the original idea I was working with and making a jig to bend the bar around was what I was figuring was overkill. I'd have the same overhang issue on the backside with that idea as well.

I do have some scrap thicker plate I could use for the top and tap/thread but thought again that it'd be overkill since the hangers for this 1300lb hoist are only 1/8th steel.

 

[Ron_J]

I used unistrut as well. I was a little uneasy just screwing the unistrut to the trusses (even with the small #440 hoist), so I laid a 2x4 on top of the trusses and put a carriage bolt thru the unistrut and the 2x4 with a nut and washer. The 2x4 is extended 4' past the end of the unistrut, so the weight is spread across multiple trusses even on the ends.

I'm confident that it would support more than the #440, but I can't really see me needing the extra lift capacity.

 

[PLUM72]

With your set up, use a couple vertical 4x4's to put on either side of the vehicle. These will reduce the span and transfer some load. These "posts" would be temporary so fabricate them to support the beam above and have a bit of a base below with some method to keep them in position.

Its important to figure out the load the beam can ideally carry. There are loading and span tables in the building code. Head to the library and take a few pictures of these tables. Figure out what you need to lift and don't exceed the capacity.

 

[restorick]

Lot of ideas so far, thank you guys.

@sgdawson - I've seen several folks post that they're successful with unistrut so that's why I was considering that route. Could ya link me to what kind of hangers you used successfully?

To the folks that suggested going above the joists, my concern is tripping hazard as mentioned. It's right in the area I work in most. If I used thick flat bar I could probably drill holes and weld a pieces of 1" steel round to stick down through the floor to attach to but the welds become a critical failure point then.

A gantry is DEFINITELY the right idea but this is something I'm going to use once or twice a year at most and I can't really spare the floor space. There is only about 2.5' of space between my truck and the wall to the left as is to walk by.

I like the idea of looping over the LVL with something as I can keep whatever is looped over it below floor level above. The question becomes what? The flat web strapping scares me a bit as over time I worry about the strength of the material as it ages vs. steel. Maybe some long u bolts? Or bend some steel into a U to wrap it like @matt_i said. I just don't know about 1/8th steel being strong enough? Anything bigger than that however and I don't have a means to bend it.

Anyone know what a steel U bracket wide, deep, and strong enough for that idea might be called?

I have the same need, and the same frequency. My thought is to secure one end of the gantry to the wall, with the I beam secured to the joist using some all thread and wood blocks. I'll remove the other post of the gantry and tuck it in the corner. When I need it moved, I can easily bolt on the post and remove from the wall.

For your situation, I'd think the all thread and perhaps some angle iron would be an option?

Rick

 

[restorick]

I used unistrut as well. I was a little uneasy just screwing the unistrut to the trusses (even with the small #440 hoist), so I laid a 2x4 on top of the trusses and put a carriage bolt thru the unistrut and the 2x4 with a nut and washer. The 2x4 is extended 4' past the end of the unistrut, so the weight is spread across multiple trusses even on the ends.

I'm confident that it would support more than the #440, but I can't really see me needing the extra lift capacity.

Ron - this intriguing. What trolley(s) did you use in the Unistrut?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[MikeC55]

Yes, I had never heard of Unistrut but it seems like a good approach. How do you spec these out? This would be great for pulling engines and getting them into the engine stand.

 

[pbon]

This is the one I bought. 8’ works for me but longer is available and they can be connected. Shipping over 8’ costs more.

https://www.ultimationinc.com/replacement-parts/buy-unibilt/8ft-enclosed-track/

 

[Ron_J]

Ron - this intriguing. What trolley(s) did you use in the Unistrut?

Thanks,
Rick

This...
https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-H...Patio-Door-Roller-Or-Pulley-Roller/1000390797

and this...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-H...n-H-Plated-Steel-Plain-Square-Tube/1000390757

I guess it isn't actually unistrut, but a door rail. The rail is rated at #450 and the hoist is #440. Definitely a light duty, but for less than $200, I'm happy with it.

Still works like a charm.

 

[nadogail]

The shops and garages I worked in as a boy had 1 1/2" or 2" water pipe perpendicular to the ceiling joists to hang chain hoists from.

The loads would be spread over the 20' length of pipe. Our engines were from heavy trucks. IHC Red Diamonds, Continental 6-602, H series Cummins and ocaisionaly a Cat or a Waukesha

 

[Busted Knucles]

Some of these lifting beams I see in this thread I wouldn't lift my bicycle with.

 

[jmarkwolf]

Be advised that some of the HF hoists are very quick, and herky jerky, even when looped back once. At least mine is.

 

[Ron_J]

Some of these lifting beams I see in this thread I wouldn't lift my bicycle with.

Ha...you must have a damn heavy bicycle.

 

[Innovate1]

I used unistrut as well. I was a little uneasy just screwing the unistrut to the trusses (even with the small #440 hoist), so I laid a 2x4 on top of the trusses and put a carriage bolt thru the unistrut and the 2x4 with a nut and washer. The 2x4 is extended 4' past the end of the unistrut, so the weight is spread across multiple trusses even on the ends.

I'm confident that it would support more than the #440, but I can't really see me needing the extra lift capacity.

That 2 x 4 on the flat has a lot of spring to it. The basic idea of going over the trusses is sound but very little weight is going to transfer to the trusses past the end due to deflection of the 2 x 4. Even the unistrut will deflect some but for 440 pounds isn't likely an issue. A 2 x 4 on edge will deflect a lot less and larger will be even better. But then the hole for the bolts removes a lot of material. So two with the bolt in between is what I have done.

 

[Innovate1]

Ok, I think I've decided what I plan to do.

I picked up a 1300lb hoist today from harborfreight. In reviewing the mounting hardware for it (which is more than double what I actually need) I realized I'm likely overthinking how much support this needs.

I have some 1/4" plate left over from my welding table build so I plan to cut out two 8.5" x 16" plates. Drill 8 3/8th holes in each. Cut out a 8.5" x 16" section of the 3/4" subfloor upstairs and sandwich these two plates with the LVL beam in between. I'll use 3/8 threaded rod to connect them both with one nut on top to ensure it's not above the final flooring material (maybe weld it on) and 2 below to lock in place).

I'll drill 4 holes in the bottom plate to mount the hoist to and be done with it.

Thoughts?

Seems good to me. No holes in the beam and keeps it below floor level. Still need to be aware of how much the beam, bolts, etc can hold but the basic ideal looks good.

 

[Busted Knucles]

Ha...you must have a damn heavy bicycle.

You missed the point of my post. Its referring to the beams not the bicycle.

 

[Ron_J]

You missed the point of my post. Its referring to the beams not the bicycle.

I understand what you were trying to convey, but you either don't get the concept of load ratings or you are just looking to stir the pot.

 

[Busted Knucles]

I understand what you were trying to convey, but you either don't get the concept of load ratings or you are just looking to stir the pot.

Read this all the way through, then look back above this thread. Im not trying to argue with you simply making a point. I have been in an industrial environment for a long time and have seen many mistakes.

https://www.ultimationinc.com/replacement-parts/buy-unibilt/8ft-enclosed-track/

 

[pbon]

For my 8’ track, I bought 3 of the hangers so my support spacing will be just under 4’.

https://www.ultimationinc.com/replacement-parts/buy-unibilt/unibilt-8672-track-hanger-clamp/

I will be breaking the rule by mounting to wood structure rather than steel, but I also won’t ever lift more than a 500 lb motor. I am not worried about the wood structure. This is an well built 1890s carriage house. I am paying attention to keeping the threaded rod stable by passing it through holes drilled in wood at the 2nd floor ceiling level and the attic floor level.

When I am done, I will post some pictures and describe how well or not well it appears to work.

 

[J5hort]

Just reading this and have a similar situation. In the middle of a garage reno and have a similar LVL beam as original poster. Except mine goes front to back in a 24x23 garage wth a room above. LVL is supported at front and back by lally columns and the joists hang perpendicular off LVL much like original poster. I'll try to upload pic.

In any event I was thinking of running 2 steel C beams on either side of LVL and sandwiching it by drilling and bolting the C beams to accept an I-beam trolley. The LVL already has bolts holding its 3 components together (3 wooden beams bolted together). Becaus the trolley would be in teh middle of the 2 bays, it may not prove to be in the best position, but I could maneuver cars, jacks, loads in place to us it along that plane.

First question is: Is this good practice and is the LVL beam sandwiched and bolted between 2 C-beams strong enough for engine, heavy load lifting.

Second, is more of a practicality question. Is it worth the trouble of installing and cost. Does anyone who has this type of set up use it regularly, and if so what type of duty?

 

[fteufert]

This...
https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-H...Patio-Door-Roller-Or-Pulley-Roller/1000390797

and this...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-H...n-H-Plated-Steel-Plain-Square-Tube/1000390757

I guess it isn't actually unistrut, but a door rail. The rail is rated at #450 and the hoist is #440. Definitely a light duty, but for less than $200, I'm happy with it.

Still works like a charm.

I used the same parts and have no issues.

 

[kbs2244]

Just do not do this

 

[dfiler2]

Had to look up up the load rating on blue ladders, yikes only 250

I used unistrut tied to the floor joists and an HF 450 lb hoist, I use it for lifting furniture up to set on saw horses or the work bench. It comes in very handy.