Slackmaster G
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Got a bead on a Holland 26 . Any opinions? Who's got one? Also got my eye on a Holland 15. Who has a holland vise?
Holland 26
- Thread starter Slackmaster G
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Packard V8
Well-known member
Can't go wrong with a Holland. They're as good as most of the Athol/Reed/Prentiss/Rock Island/Parker/Columbian.
jack vines
jack vines
royce
Well-known member
drivesitfar
Well-known member
HOLLANDS are right up there with Reed and Rock Island and a few other names as maybe the best made old US vises ever made.
here's a picture of a Holland's 15 i sold a friend who made a pretty nice bench for his and i've tried to buy it back or trade him for something else several times in the last 4 years and he say's HOLLY STAYS WHERE HOLLY IS.
the 26 should be maybe a 6 inch wide jaw and close to a 150 pound with swivel base and it would get my attention.
cheers
here's a picture of a Holland's 15 i sold a friend who made a pretty nice bench for his and i've tried to buy it back or trade him for something else several times in the last 4 years and he say's HOLLY STAYS WHERE HOLLY IS.
the 26 should be maybe a 6 inch wide jaw and close to a 150 pound with swivel base and it would get my attention.
cheers
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kwoswalt99
Well-known member
As it stands now, I would say they're better than Reed or Rock Island, and up there with Athol and Columbian.
When was a Columbian better than a Reed or Rock Island? :eye crazy:
There is a connection between Reed and Hollands nobody is sure of, but many of them clearly came from the same moulds, and Reed finished them off better....split nut to remove the slack, etc.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
GMAN: i also think REED and HOLLANDS are or were working together in some fashion.
i also agree when did COLUMBIAN come close to a REED OR ROCK ISLAND vise. the pre WWII ones are decent and better made than almost anything now, but not #1. i'll admit Athol (Starrett) is up there though and i'm sure there are a few other well made ones if we are talking about the best to include. i just think REED and ROCK ISLAND are #1 and PICK EM if i was a betting man.
i also agree when did COLUMBIAN come close to a REED OR ROCK ISLAND vise. the pre WWII ones are decent and better made than almost anything now, but not #1. i'll admit Athol (Starrett) is up there though and i'm sure there are a few other well made ones if we are talking about the best to include. i just think REED and ROCK ISLAND are #1 and PICK EM if i was a betting man.
Cope
Well-known member
I wouldn't say better, but IMO, there's not a lot of difference. I have a Columbian 505, son-in-law a Reed 105. His Reed out weighs my Columbian by 20#, yet the slide dimensions are almost identcal. The Reed looks beefier, but I can't see 20#.
kwoswalt99
Well-known member
When was a Columbian better than a Reed or Rock Island?
Show me a Columbian with a broken off dynamic jaw, and I'll change my mind.
KMScott
Well-known member
Show me a Columbian with a broken off dynamic jaw, and I'll change my mind.
I'll trade you my Columbian's for your Reed's of the same jaw size and I'll pay the shipping. Let me know and I'll look in my pile and dig out the Columbian's.
My opinion is Starretts, Reeds then Hollands. I would put Rock islands below Parker's, A-Scales, Prentiss and Wilton's. Then Columbians with the Rock Islands But that is my opinion based on working on them and the quality.
The Holland 26 is a good vise and Slackmaster G you aught to go get it. I love the swivel base that Hollands designed. They lock down. Here are the two I finished a 23-1/2 and a 27. The 27-H weighed 225lbs.
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kwoswalt99
Well-known member
I suspect you are talking about fit and finish correct? How many Columbians have you seen with a broken off dynamic jaw?
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Packard V8
Well-known member
Vises are very difficult to qualify/quantify, especially as many had an abused childhood and we don't always have a clear understanding of what they were like new. I've owned them all and my Rock Island is easily as good as my Athol and actually has the tightest slide of any large vise I've seen.
The Parkers often have the best fit and finish, but can be somewhat fragile.
jack vines
kwoswalt99
Well-known member
I agree with you on Parkers. I'm talking from purely a strength perspective. The materials Columbian used were better than most of the day. I doubt your RI is as strong as your Athol. As far as fit and finish goes, I would say Yost is near the bottom, judging from mine.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Among the brands discussed here, there is no major quality difference. When considering a vise from this group that is 50-100 years old, so much depends on how it has been used.
I have one or two vises from most of those manufacturers already mentioned. Prentiss, Athol, Reed, Rock Island, Columbian, Hollands... (Had a Parker 956 but sold it to another member)
All are extremely well made and any of them will likely serve you well for the rest of your life if not abused.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't some Columbians have hollow jaw towers?
Speaking of Hollands, here is my latest find... a 43 1/2 still wearing most of its original factory paint. (just recently scrubbed and coated with BLO)
I have one or two vises from most of those manufacturers already mentioned. Prentiss, Athol, Reed, Rock Island, Columbian, Hollands... (Had a Parker 956 but sold it to another member)
All are extremely well made and any of them will likely serve you well for the rest of your life if not abused.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't some Columbians have hollow jaw towers?
Speaking of Hollands, here is my latest find... a 43 1/2 still wearing most of its original factory paint. (just recently scrubbed and coated with BLO)
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kwoswalt99
Well-known member
No major quality difference? If you don't abuse it, a Harbor Freight vise will last a lifetime.
Shiftless
Well-known member
No major quality difference? If you don't abuse it, a Harbor Freight vise will last a lifetime.
Point well taken...The HF vise has many fans...but IMHO the fit and finish and operation of the HF vise doesn't compare to the group being considered.
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The Columbian has hollow jaw towers...there's your 20# most likely.
How could you possibly know what materials they used? It's not like that information was published. They had hollow jaw towers, which simply isn't going to be as strong as solid jaw towers.
Size for size, they weigh less and weight is pretty well tied to strength when you're talking about vises.
I don't dislike Columbians, but there is no way they're better/stronger than a Reed, Rock Island, or Hollands. Not even close.
The whole "show me a picture" thing means zippy. Finding a picture, or not finding a picture doesn't prove anything...there are too many variables for it to be meaningful. How many were sold, what they were used for, etc, etc, etc.
We had a Reed 4 1/2" at work and some doofus took it apart for cleaning and was about to throw out the "broken nut".
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Cope
Well-known member
Might be. I did not know that they were hollow.
I am starting to lean toward Hollands making the early Reed vises. I am even beginning to suspect Reed may have bought Hollands perhaps in the late 30's. Latest date I have found so far for Hollands is 1936.
CrotalusAtrox
Well-known member
Wilton's have hollow towers also and guys love them me included, but for strength as G-Man stated solid towers are going to take more of a beating if you intend to beat on them.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
ALL: this is a great talk on vises and we all have our favorites. i think i'll start a thread on VINTAGE VISES and YOUR PERSONAL #1 or something like that cause this thread will get lost soon.
for those of you that don't think ROCK ISLANDS were #1 or the best made vises maybe you haven't seen one that wasn't abused and beat to ****? Rock Island vises took a TON OF ABUSE and maybe because who their owners were. not many machinists owned a Rock Island and almost all i've found have been in a barn or heavy duty industrial warehouse.
i know there is some connection with Reed and Holland's and just can't remember what i read about them a long time ago. maybe BB is on to something with Reed buying Holland's, but i don't know. i do know that if a nice Holland's came in range of me and cost less than i had in my wallet it would be going home with me.
Shift: great looking 43.5!!!
for those of you that don't think ROCK ISLANDS were #1 or the best made vises maybe you haven't seen one that wasn't abused and beat to ****? Rock Island vises took a TON OF ABUSE and maybe because who their owners were. not many machinists owned a Rock Island and almost all i've found have been in a barn or heavy duty industrial warehouse.
i know there is some connection with Reed and Holland's and just can't remember what i read about them a long time ago. maybe BB is on to something with Reed buying Holland's, but i don't know. i do know that if a nice Holland's came in range of me and cost less than i had in my wallet it would be going home with me.
Shift: great looking 43.5!!!
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Drives:
Thanks! The pin on that one came out by pulling on it. No tools necessary. How refreshing!
All:
Here is a page from the Automotive Trade Journal publication sometime in the 1920's regarding Columbian hollow jaws and the heat treating of the cast iron. (makng it malleable)
BTW, I have a Columbian 505 1/2 that survived service building Liberty ships in the Kaiser shipyard in Richmond CA and after the war being stored outside for 30+ years. (According to the guy living in Richmond who sold it to me for $30)
Thanks! The pin on that one came out by pulling on it. No tools necessary. How refreshing!
All:
Here is a page from the Automotive Trade Journal publication sometime in the 1920's regarding Columbian hollow jaws and the heat treating of the cast iron. (makng it malleable)
BTW, I have a Columbian 505 1/2 that survived service building Liberty ships in the Kaiser shipyard in Richmond CA and after the war being stored outside for 30+ years. (According to the guy living in Richmond who sold it to me for $30)
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royce
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OP
Slackmaster G
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The holland 26 is six inch jaws a weighs a buck eighty
OP
Slackmaster G
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I just bought a nice Chas Parker 955 and that's a beast but the hollands dwarfs that .
KMScott
Well-known member
Thanks Royce
Wrapped up a Reed 109 today for a customer. I'll give a sneak peek, the pic's are not that great.
Did you buy the Holland? I hope so, maybe show a picture if you have one, and the Parker too.
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Shiftless
Well-known member
KMS:
Another excellent job on that beast.
The new jaws you made are like jewelry to me (and many others I presume)
Another excellent job on that beast.
The new jaws you made are like jewelry to me (and many others I presume)
The newer Wiltons with the more square profile dynamic jaw are actually solid. There were some transition models when they first went to the more square dynamic that had a hollow cavity, but that didn't last long and the cavity was smaller than that found on the more rounded profile dynamic jaws.
The transition to a solid dynamic jaw tower was about 35 years ago...early 1980s as best I can tell. I just finished a 1982 500S and it was a transition model with the more square profile and smaller hollow cavity.
tdcisco1
Well-known member
i suspect they used a common foundry and finish machined in house. there were several large foundrys near by to their plants. jmo !
From various things I have seen I believe Hollands had their own foundry as they manufactured a lot of cast items from vises to ladles for lead to waffle irons.
Just fished her out of a flooded lot the family purchased a while back and got her cut off of her welding table. Am just starting the restoration now. I tell you what, if it wasn’t for my 5 to 1 block and tackle there’s no way I would have been able to move her on my own. She’s a monster!
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Maui
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I have a hollands 56 which is the fixed base version of the 26. It weighs over 150 lbs. Your 26 has the swivel base and weighs even more. It is a beast of a vise. One suggestion I would provide after restoring mine is to modify the design slightly. Originally the slide would fishtale violently when I turned the lead screw. So I drilled a hole in the head of the pin that secures the main nut in place and used a 1/4 - 20 tap to thread it. The head of the pin is so large that I actually had to tap in one direction, and then remove the tap and go in from the other side in order to complete the formation of the thread all the way through. I used a long set screw with a nut and spring washer on one end as you can see in the last image. Finely adjusting the set screw allowed me to significantly reduce the amount of slop in the positioning of the nut. Locking the set screw in position guarantees that it should remain at that setting too. Now the vise opens and closes very smoothly with a barely perceptible fishtale motion
