Holy Excavation Estimate Batman

[Reino]

Ive been wanting to build a garage for a few years now. Like many others the only thing holding me back is money…and the wife a little but mostly money.
Anyways, I have 4 people lined up to give me estimates on the excavation work so I can build a pole barn/garage. The first guy showed up today and gave me a "rough estimate" of $15,000 and told me he hates giving estimates before working the numbers for fear he's low. My reply was "if its any higher don't bother calling".
Now, I live in VA and all this work will be done in a fairly level wooded area. All trees need to be removed. He will be clearing, removing top soil, and graveling 150' for a driveway and a 35'x45' pad to build the barn. The stumps will be removed and burned onsite along with the tree tops. Logs will be stacked. All trees about 20' from the pad will also be removed/cleared on 3 sides (One side is already clear).

Am I unreasonable or is this estimate a little high? To be honest its about 3 times what I was expecting.

Thanks.

 

[TTA89]

I have no idea, but without pictures nobody can even take a guess...

 

[red5001]

From what you said I am thinking that isn't far off. Gravel adds up fast as well as time. I did my pole barn and it was mor ethen expected for ecavation.

 

[A_Pmech]

Excavation is a very competitive business. Get some more bids and you'll know if the first one was reasonable or not.

 

[ZRX61]

Not enough info. Does "remove all trees" refer to 4 trees or 204?

 

[rsanter]

Why are you not doing at least some of it yourself if money is the issue?

Bob

 

[Zeke]

When removing trees from the footprint of the build site the stumps and roots must all be dug up, the soil returned and compacted along with the new base material. Obviously with that much excavation and organic material removal you will need some additional backfill. the gravel can accomplish that but only after the soil is compacted. Not knowing your soil type and the specs on the trees, I'm thinking he's going to dig down 4 to 6 feet to do this.

 

[Reino]

Thanks for the replies.

From what you said I am thinking that isn't far off. Gravel adds up fast as well as time. I did my pole barn and it was mor ethen expected for ecavation.

Thanks for the reply. He did mention it would take a lot of gravel for the driveway and building pad. Estimated 6" on the driveway from the stripped and 4" on the pad of which ill add 4" concrete to later.

Excavation is a very competitive business. Get some more bids and you'll know if the first one was reasonable or not.

I have some lined up but was thinking if they were all going to be this high I might as well cancel for now. With their vacations and prior commitments my next estimate isn't for 2 weeks.

Why are you not doing at least some of it yourself if money is the issue?
Bob

Well, for starters I don't have the equipment needed. If you have the right equipment and are offering to let me use it ill send you my address.

When removing trees from the footprint of the build site the stumps and roots must all be dug up, the soil returned and compacted along with the new base material. Obviously with that much excavation and organic material removal you will need some additional backfill. the gravel can accomplish that but only after the soil is compacted. Not knowing your soil type and the specs on the trees, I'm thinking he's going to dig down 4 to 6 feet to do this.

There will be about 30 or so trees needed to be removed ranging from 6" - 2' diameter and then some brush. I didn't think of having to backfill for the roots and that will add up quick.
The soil is mostly the VA clay. This is real clay, not the **** most people call clay.


Thank again for the replies. I think Ill just wait and see what the other 3 say. Hopefully they are a little less.

 

[efb16acrx]

This thread is of interest to me as I'm in linden, will be building something next year hopefully, and I want to see who you end up using.

 

[Mechtech]

Considering that a straight up tree removal (residential here in Ia) can run $1000 to $1500 per with just stump grinding not removal I'd say your getting a deal.

 

[Zogman]

Personally it sounds a bit high. I just finished excavating for my garage and it was a ton of work. They terraced a hillside for me and had 2 massive rocks that needed to be broken down. We had 4 pieces of equipment on site plus a rock breaking attachment to the excavator and there was 30 days of work and it added up to $21k. I was on-site with the operator most every day running the water hose. I don't know about gravel but that comes later for me after the garage is built. Here is a pic of what we started with. It was a dungload of work.

 

[panknuckshovel]

Call the firewood guy that the excavation company is going to sell your trees to. Tell him he can have the wood for free just cut down the trees. Take a hathet, chop an indentation into the stumps. Place kingsford in the indentation and light, let smolder to remove the stumps. Done,

 

[joes169]

Am I unreasonable or is this estimate a little high? To be honest its about 3 times what I was expecting.

Thanks.

I'd say the $15K estimate is far more realistic than your own expectation. A lot of people don't realize the amount of cost there is in an excavating business. Probably a minimum of a few hundreds dollars just to get the equipment on site.........

 

[volleyball]

Call the firewood guy that the excavation company is going to sell your trees to. Tell him he can have the wood for free just cut down the trees. Take a hathet, chop an indentation into the stumps. Place kingsford in the indentation and light, let smolder to remove the stumps. Done,

That won't do it. for a building you want to remove all the organic material, not just what is above the surface.


To the OP, you may not have the funds to go ahead completely but why can't you first get rid of the trees? That alone will start the tree rot and easier to remove thing in the future. After the trees are gone, down the road, rent a backhoe and remove the stumps or post a CL ad looking for a guy with a machine to do it when he is out of other jobs.
You do it in stages and the wife won't be looking at such a big expense and since you already invested so much, it would be a shame not to continue.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Depending on how big the trees are, your free time, and your sense of adventure, you might look into renting a backhoe and doing much of it yourself. Going against the previous comment here--don't have anyone cut the trees. It is much easier to dig around the roots and push them over if you have 6+ feet of trunk sticking up for leverage. You can trim them up and line them up on the side of your workspace and they can come cut them up for firewood later.

I cleared my back lot myself and rather enjoyed the process.

ArkTinkerer

 

[ArkTinkerer]

One more thought if money is tight-- cut the trees up yourself and sell the firewood. Might add more $$ to your garage savings account!

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

His estimate sounds like it could be a low especially considering it includes 150' of driveway. How far will the gravel come from? Does the price include compacting it?

Depending on the type and condition of the trees they may be good for lumber or firewood. They may not be good for anything. One thing for sure you can save some $$$ by getting rid of the smaller trees and brush without any major equipment. You could also rent a stump grinder to get rid of the stumps around the sides.

 

[Durka]

Your on clay? How thick is topsoil ? Check in a couple spots.

Do you have a space on your land where you could build a berm from the overburden not needed ?

It also depends upon how much Top you have to strip (organics). If you sitting in a low area ,- naturally, then there's going to be allot of it most likely.

You also need to maintain the clay table. So back filling tree stumps could work for you and someone else. Call around to different Excavating companies. Ask if they need to get rid of any on site clay in the area, -or if they have any. Some of the time, they may be happy as hell if you let them dump a little clay (their overburden) at your place. - If you need some for the tree stumps.

The price could get worse if you have bad ground...Much worse! I'd dig some holes first. Personally, Id rent the equipment needed and do it myself..That type of excavation should be too difficult. Except for the trees I would definitely call some tree guys for estimates. Someone had already said those 2 footers are going to be around 1000 a tree, - not including the stump grind. But I'd farm that out myself unless I needed it, - or see if I could sell the them.

There's quite a few things you can do yourself, - if you really need to save. Do the math, figure how stone you need. Add in about 31% for compaction or compacted in place.Get a ball park figure on what you absolute need first.
So you know what costs per yard or ton. The more YOU know about your land and materials needed the better.

Good Luck

 

[Reino]

Thanks again for all the replies. The topsoil around here is between 8-12". Ive already cut down about 6-8 trees as I was planning on cutting all the trees and then having someone remove all the stumps and go from there. Thats when I got to thinking about removing the topsoil and all the stone Id need. Id also need equipment. I have no problem renting equipment, and I often do, but I also realize Ill need several different types and the crawler/loader to remove the top soil runs a tad over a grand a day. Ill probably need a few days on that at a minimum. Ive operated a track hoe before but never a loader.
He estimates 3 days and when I thinking thats 5 grand a day, thats a lot of money!
I guess now that I read all the responses he may not be far from where he should be. Ill see what the other 3 say and go from there.

As far as the trees, they are all good trees suitable for burning. Either I or family/friends will get use out of them.

If I do end up taking on this take myself I will need fill. Thanks for the advice Durka on where to get some. One more question though. When you mention Ill need to "maintain the clay level" is it not acceptable to fill the holes with other fill material, other then clay? I ask this because I know clay is hard to get at the right moisture where its good for compacting. Shale as I recall is a lot more forgiving. Can I fill a hole in clay with shale? There is also a shale quarry nearby which one of the companies coming out to give an estimate own.

One last question. Will contractors negotiate? I know it probably depends on how busy they are, time of year, weather, and a whole slew of other factors but in y'alls experiences do they negotiate?

 

[fordbroncodave]

well I had a dump truck bring a load of limestone 3/4 with fines for $375 delivered. that was 23 tons worth. you will need like 6-8 of those to do your driveway alone. add an hourly fee for someone to move the gravel around and get it sumwhat level and spread out. looks like 4-5k to do the driveway to the start of the pad. if you need to remove 20 trees that is a heck of alot of time if you are sawing and grubbing. hire an excavator to grub for you. have them make a pile of wood and you can dispose of it later. have someone level your area roughly and get a bunch more loads of limestone or ground asphalt.


its hard to figure a close dollar amount not knowing exact details but if I were you, source what you can for best dollar and hire for the main portions

icing on the cake is a little different to everyone. some charge more for some things than others so pick and choose if you can

 

[volleyball]

You can fill holes with other materials. For me, I mix sand with the clay to fill the voids. Water will be able to peculate easier through it though.
You can negotiate with contractors. If you are willing to be fill work, on their schedule, you can get a break, just hope there isn't a lot of other work going on. And that can push your project back a year or so. But that may not be a problem. I like the ground to settle through a winter before I pour the floor. Usually not possible but a lot less work on your part if you let mother nature help settle the disturbed earth.
You contractor may not be well equipped to do all the job so sometimes finding what they don't want to do and you doing that or some other contractor may be the way to go.
You have a bunch of assets in that topsoil. A gravel company that deals with topsoil may work you out a deal. If you can load their trucks when they deliver the stone, they won't be going back empty.

 

[thecj3man]

I had 37 trees removed in prepartion for building a garage. They were mostly Red Oak, about 30 inches DBH, and straight as arrows. I sold the trees to a local logger, he came in and cut them all down, took the logs, and left me the **** plus a check for the logs. It took me the next summer and most of the winter to get all the firewood sawed up and stacked and the rest of the mess burned.

The next spring I had another fellow come in with a back-hoe and dig out the stumps and haul them to a sink hole on my dads farm about 5 miles away.

In the end I ended up with a really nice place to build a garage and a chainsaw. It was a **** load of work, but I pretty much broke even on the project.

 

[mr overdunne]

a picture speaks a thousand words. post some up.

 

[Durka]

I agree, -knowing the topol/cuts and fills would help as well. Could have enough clay over burden coming from building pad/drive to take care of those tree stump holes. But Iduno, there's going to be allot topsoil, if it's that thick. So if the land is fairly flat, you'll have to raise the building pad a bit (or drive) after it's stripped and sub-graded..

I wouldn't mix materials filling the stump holes..Specially under the B-pad. If you don't want a dry well underneath your building. Plus if it freezes there, -could screw up your building in the future. If you have to import clay (not sure about shale, we don't have that around here), you may have to bring the moisture content up when compacting in lifts in order to get the correct density. If your using a permit, whomever might want you to use a soils company to density check the fills. A soils guy knows the correct moisture content and can also measure it in the ground, where its testing. That's IF you need to go through that.

Keep in mind, the clay table has to be correct or you'll have problems in the future.

 

[racer1]

I had this done yrs ago. Don't remember the costs. But If he has a big excavator -Back hoe-..The trees are no big deal. I had a 600ft drive. He unloaded the backhoe, and started grading. His hoe has a 12 ft wide blade on it. He started rough grading, then would hit on each side of the ground by each tree, then raise the bucket as high as he could be just push the whole tree down. It was incredibly fast. then he would grab the rootball and shake it, then set it along side the drive. there it was easy to cut up and much safer. AND, These were not small trees. I'm talking 60 - 90 ft tall ones. he probably took down 20 -30 trees. I was just amazed watching him work. all them trees, 600 ft of rough grading, and he was done in less than 3 freekin hours. No stumps in ground to grind. Like I said it, was amazing to watch someone with the right equipment and knowledge do their thing..

 

[Durka]

That's true ^^^, well not so easy with Jack Pines though. They like to snap half way up when pushing them over like that. Yea, no need to look up, you'll be in the thick of it in a few seconds lol.

 

[johninct]

Be realistic. Everyone who is recommending renting a backhoe is nuts. That is like saying go to HF, buy a spray gun and paint your car!!! For an inexperienced operator somebody can get hurt!!! The OP isn't even dropping all the trees himself with a chainsaw.

 

[66HertzClone]

We found a big range when we were looking for excavation estimates. Two guys were over 30K, my GC referred me a guy he has used in the past, he came back with an estimate at 19k.

 

[Kevin54]

One word.......Dy-No-MITE!!!

Cut the trees, limb them and save the main trunks Cut what wood you can out of the limbs. Get a buddy to help and split the wood with him.

Have someone get some dynamite and blast the stumps out. If you have work to do, you might as well interject some fun into it.

$15,000 sounds like a lot to me, but anyone who owns heavy equipment, just a broken hydraulic hose can cost a few hundred. And you just don't run to your nearest TSC to pick another on up. It may be a day shot just driving to get a hose and getting back.

Diesel fuel is up, and a Dozer or a Trac-hoe don't get 25 miles to the gallon. The eat some fuel. If the equipment is fairly large like a D9 'dozer, a permit may have to be secured to get it there and back.

When i had a large portion of my pond filled in and the surrounding ground lowered to fill it (we dropped my ground about 3') it was an 8 hour job. I basically knew what most charge for doing things. In my county, it's stupid expensive. In my hometown, they are very reasonable. I figured a large dozer would take one day to do what was needed. I've ran smaller dozers, so I had a good idea as to time. I told my wife it would cost about $1500 to sit and push dirt and he would be done in a day. Sure enough, it took 8 hours and cost me $1500.

So shop around, get a half a dozen quotes and don't feel bad about bothering someone for estimates. I would venture to guess that you could get the cost cut in half.

BTW.....if you cut your own trees, leave about 2' of trunk sticking up. If the tree is in relatively soft dirt, they may use that much of the stump to push some of the trees out with a dozer, IF they have a large enough dozer.

Once you have the trees and root balls out, you will most likely need someone with a sheepsfoot roller to compact the ground. If you are planning on building this year, you want that ground packed as tight as you can get it.

 

[volleyball]

Nuts is someone who thinks others cannot run a backhoe without lots of training. If you know you are not up to the task, then it would be foolish. No one has said they cannot run one. I know I can get in the seat of rental equipment and teach myself in minutes.
Yeah the paint job won't be show quality but it will be done.

 

[Durka]

Yea, you'll learn enough fairly quick on a rubber tire hoe. You'll be slow as hell, but you'll get better with time. The back bucket joy sticks are probably a little easier to learn on. Excavators are set up the same way as far as bucket/boom control now a days...They didn't use to be.
The front bucket is simpler.

 

[Garage Dog]

Be realistic. Everyone who is recommending renting a backhoe is nuts. That is like saying go to HF, buy a spray gun and paint your car!!! For an inexperienced operator somebody can get hurt!!! The OP isn't even dropping all the trees himself with a chainsaw.

^^^^^Good Advice?^^^^^

Maybe for some, but it is the antithesis of how I live my life.

Learning by the seat of your excavator - go for it!

GD

 

[volleyball]

My woman would never ever manage one of those things but she loves to get a pic of her sitting on/in it to show her friends. Same with others who are around when you are using the big machines. Must come from their youth and amusement park rides.

 

[srmofo]

Without reading all the replies I'd say its a fair estimate if not a little low.....

And if I was that contractor, I would have fired you on the spot. Good luck getting any work done with that attitude. Do yourself a favor and add up the materials cost of gravel, equipment rental for a week with fuel. Now consider the guy needs to pay himself AND make a profit.

You yourself mentioned the cost of equipment. Someone has to pay for it.

If you want to save some money , go buy a chain saw and fell the trees yourself. Rent a grinder for the stumps outside the building and let the contractor take care of the stumps inside the building.

 

[Durka]

Learning by the seat of your excavator - go for it!

GD

How else do you learn ? There really isn't another way....Takes Stick Time. I guess if you can't check oil and tire pressure, you better forget it. Or if you can't drive a car.

 

[Durka]

Be realistic. Everyone who is recommending renting a backhoe is nuts. That is like saying go to HF, buy a spray gun and paint your car!!! For an inexperienced operator somebody can get hurt!!! The OP isn't even dropping all the trees himself with a chainsaw.

Geezzz.. Well okay, - I guess if you lack common sense....Yea,that could be an impairment.

 

[Durka]

Ask the contractor if you can "Time and Material" the job. Then only use him when you need him..It's a set price that way and you'll get a better idea of what it really costs...If you keep track..

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Nuts is someone who thinks others cannot run a backhoe without lots of training. If you know you are not up to the task, then it would be foolish. No one has said they cannot run one. I know I can get in the seat of rental equipment and teach myself in minutes.
Yeah the paint job won't be show quality but it will be done.

This. I for one have taught myself, in minutes, every piece of heavy equipment I've ever run. Once you know one, the rest are generally similar, controls intuitive and well-placed. Learned a Drexel Swing-mast in 15 minutes, something many never master after months. If you already have a knack for the heavies, you'll generally have no problem. If you don't, well.....

 

[Durka]

Be realistic. Everyone who is recommending renting a backhoe is nuts. That is like saying go to HF, buy a spray gun and paint your car!!! For an inexperienced operator somebody can get hurt!!! The OP isn't even dropping all the trees himself with a chainsaw.

Geezzz.. Well okay, - I guess if you lack common sense, that would be an impairment.

 

[southalabama]

Get two or three estimates and go with the one you feel most comfortable with.

In our little town we have two main excavating contractors. One gives you price upfront. You can either afford him or not. The other low balls the estimate then pads it on the end.

For my shop build the concrete man said I need a few loads of dirt. Fifteen truck loads later my immediate building plans had been derailed. I regrouped after the slab was poured and hope in a couple months to begin the metal building.

As far as rental. It's a toss up. In out area by the time you pay delivery charges for it to be brought in you might as well hire a local operator. The economics are about the same other than with the later they supply the labor.