Home AC help

[USAFpj]

Guys- I'm having a heck of a time and could use some advice on a solid course of action.

New Ameristar (foreign Trane brand) system installed October 2015. This will be the 4th service call since then- system acts like it's losing freon as the copper pipe continually freezes a month after Freon is installed.

I received a bill from the original installer to the tune of $433 for coil cleaner and (7) lbs of Freon just 20 days ago, but haven't paid it. Installer says that he could not find a leak. I knew it would only be a matter of time before it would freeze again.

I'm about to call the company again, but really, what is a fair expectation to them and me on this? As of now, paying the $433 is questionable...

 

[Jinks]

I'm not following the time line. The unit is nearly four years old, & you've had four service calls, but the line freezes a month after gas replacement. Do you do without A/C the rest of the time? Have all four service visits been within the last four months? Is the unit actually low on gas at each visit?

If the unit is actually low tell the tech to find the leak. If that company can't find the leak find another company to service the unit. Keep in mind that it's out of warranty.

 

[yeldogt]

It's obviously got a leak .. 7lbs and they cannot find it?

They need to find it .. Did they replace the schrader valves.

Whenever I have a system checked -- I tell the company up front I want the valves replaced if it needs any charge. If it's a new company - ask what they charge. It takes about 5 min each for a qualified technician as he is working on it.

 

[USAFpj]

Some missing info from my story- the Ameristar has a 5yr warranty, just not on labor. I have 1 year remaining. The pessimist in me says they slow roll the fix so that they don't have to replace anything...

2 visits within the last 2 months- they acknowledge a leak may be present, but they "cannot find it". 7lbs of Freon is due to them evacuating the entire system, attempting to find a leak, then charge it back up.

I only use these guys as they are the original installers, and they know the history on this unit. It took them 2 months after the initial service call (middle of SC Summer) for them to arrive, and now after a large bill, they most likely will have to come out again.

If I call them now, it's realistic that they will not arrive for another month...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

First of all, if they tell you they have to recover the refrigereant to find the leak, they're inept. Second, even if they do recover the refrigerant to find the leak, after they repair the leak they can put the refrigerant they took out back in again, so there shouldn't be a huge amount of new refrigerant needed to properly charge the system.

Tommy

 

[USAFpj]

This is the ONE item that my contractor could/should have tried to upsell me. I wanted a US made, overly qualified system for HVAC in the SC summers and Winters.

I spend a lot of time overseas, so by the time I was ready to spend the $$$, the system of his choosing was already installed...

To be fair to Ameristar, it seems that the installer is the deficient issue.

 

[PWC Repair]

The installer is USUALLY the issue. You can call any other Trane, American Standard, or Ameristar dealer to perform warranty work. If there is a leak it shouldn't be hard to find, even a small one.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

If that is R-22 you are talking about $433 is not a bad deal. Most likely they are just re-using your old refrigerant though. Typically R-22 can be $100/lb making it more cost effective to have a completely new system installed and your bills will drop with a more efficient system. I paid extra for a variable speed 20 SEER Lennox and it has been great.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[USAFpj]

If that is R-22 you are talking about $433 is not a bad deal

Yep, my extended family reminded me of that. My thought is why is the refrigerant being replaced at all? An HVAC tech that is content with walking away from a project that he couldn't find a solution to, and then sending a $433 bill?

It's a 4yr old system...

 

[acmikee]

if after removing the refrigerant did he pressurize the system with nitrogen and use an electronic detector and soap bubbles. he could always put dye in it and run it for a few days and check with a black light
did he check the lines, do you see an oil stains in the condenser coil.
what does the name plate say for refrigerant charge. how much did he take out and add 7lbs
4yrs old is not going to be R22

 

[fitter30]

acmikee post 10 1+

 

[USAFpj]

Good questions- I was in Iraq at the time, and my wife who homeschools our (3) kids dealt with the heat and scheduling BS. The tech arrived 2 weeks before I came back home, but didn't have all of his tools, and had to return a week later.

I can get these answers when he arrives yet again, but to me, the issue is what to appropriately pay for this guys time?

 

[bazar01]

If the unit was installed in 2015, most probably refrigerant is R410A. For small leaks, it can topped off. There is no need to recover all the refrigerant in the system..
If 7 lbs was put back in, how much was recovered?
That will tell you if its a small or big leak. Even then, a small leak should not be hard to locate.

 

[Falcon67]

>The tech arrived 2 weeks before I came back home, but didn't have all of his tools, and had to return a week later.

That's a flag that says "call someone else". A professional will show up with everything they need less parts - any maybe some common parts. But for the usual trip charge, you'd expect a real pro to show up ready to do a full assessment of the system.

 

[USAFpj]

I agree- I was in this perpetual cycle of calling them as they had a 'history' with this system as they were the installers. I was wrong about them caring about that fact.

I now want to use someone else who is trusted, but the bill remains. I may just call them and see what we can agree to on price to where they never have to return.

 

[Supertech]

Call a different company and have a leak search done.

 

[dcg9381]

Some missing info from my story- the Ameristar has a 5yr warranty, just not on labor. I have 1 year remaining. The pessimist in me says they slow roll the fix so that they don't have to replace anything...

What is the warranty on the labor (per the installer)? You're kicking the right tail - you've got the guys that installed it, but they keep doing the same "go away" job time after time. Lots of HVAC places (around here) will do the same thing - add enough coolant to a slow leak to get you by for the summer or offer to do a "full replacement". Finding leaks - if that's what is happening - is labor intensive - no parts to mark up.

Cleaning the coil is maybe a 20 minute job once. Ask if they are evacuating and re-using your coolant.

Bottom line is they've done 4 service calls, installed it, and it's still failing.

 

[SGKent]

Some companies like to spend their time installing new units and don't like servicing. I'd find someone else. Look at ratings until you find a company that addresses the problems they create. Everyone makes mistakes in life, it is how they deal with it afterwards. Some people try to make it look like someone else did it, some people try to profit off it again, some people walk away, and some people make it right. Look for someone who has a history of making it right even if it is as simple as they were late for an appointment.

As for the leak, most systems today don't need refrigerant all that often. A UV dye would find it or more if there are multiple leaks.

 

[ant.foste]

You’re getting hosed. Plain and simple. Hire a better company to find and repair this leak.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

If the unit was installed in 2015, most probably refrigerant is R410A. For small leaks, it can topped off. There is no need to recover all the refrigerant in the system..
If 7 lbs was put back in, how much was recovered?
That will tell you if its a small or big leak. Even then, a small leak should not be hard to locate.

That's what I was thinking. The only R22 condensers I could find in 2015 were bone dry and it would have cost me another $1500 to $2000 to have charged.

If the original installer is being this shady/unreliable, you need to look for a new company. Check with the equipment manufacturer.

 

[dcg9381]

Before you fire them, it'd be worth attempting an "escalation" to whomever owns that place. I'd simply put it as they were paid to install it, it's under warranty, and they've had 4 attempts to fix it. They can fix it correctly or cover the cost of someone else doing it for them...

 

[USAFpj]

I owe you guys an update, so here it is:

The original installer came back out to perform a leak test with dye, was here for over an hour, and said that he 'suspected' a leak was at the A coil. Good! Then let's order one now, have it on standby, and ready to install once you come back to verify the dye.

2.5 weeks later, he returns, verifies the leak at the A coil, and then tells me that he'll now shop around for the new A coil... gotta be kidding me. August in SC right now...

So this is where I'm at now. I imagine that the quote includes the original $433, but to install the new coil, labor, diagnostics, and the freight of returning the old coil will come in at the ballpark of $850.

At this point, I'm prepared to pay it with no questions asked, just to divorce this relationship.

To be honest, I'm more heartbroken with the state of craftsmanship these days. You have a consumer that would have gladly spent the extra $850 or more to get a solid American product, but instead, the 'financially conservative' unit was installed instead. Bad on me for not paying closer attention to my Contractor, but $850 put into a 4 year old system that supplies heat/air to a 1600sq ft house? And I even spent the time and money to have the crawlspace enclosed and conditioned just to ensure the protection of these parts...

 

[BillK]

Have you tried calling the actual manufacturer and explain to them this entire crazy story ? They more than likely have a consumer help line of some type.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Why the F are they still giving you quotes to repair something that they should be doing for FREEEEEEEE?

Tommy

 

[USAFpj]

Tommy- I always understood the warranty process. I was nervous about this overseas Trane product, so I studied it immediately once I was aware:

EXCLUSIONS: The following are not covered by this limited warranty:• Labor costs including, but not limited to, costs for diagnostic calls or the removal and reinstallation of Products and/or Product parts.• Shipping and freight expenses required to ship Product replacement parts.

The installer is stating that I am not responsible for the first $433 bill, but the $850 is for the installation of the new A Coil. He originally told me that it would take him (1) hour to install, but I imagine that the removal, install, coolant charge, "diagnostic calls", freight shipping, etc. is what they are going to try and recoup after driving out here 4 times.

If I was Ameristar, I would push the responsibility to sloppy HVAC install vs. my product. The product is being replaced as advertised under warranty, but the cost of the 'free' coil will leave a bitter taste for a long time.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Tommy- I always understood the warranty process. I was nervous about this overseas Trane product, so I studied it immediately once I was aware:

EXCLUSIONS: The following are not covered by this limited warranty:• Labor costs including, but not limited to, costs for diagnostic calls or the removal and reinstallation of Products and/or Product parts.• Shipping and freight expenses required to ship Product replacement parts.

The installer is stating that I am not responsible for the first $433 bill, but the $850 is for the installation of the new A Coil. He originally told me that it would take him (1) hour to install, but I imagine that the removal, install, coolant charge, "diagnostic calls", freight shipping, etc. is what they are going to try and recoup after driving out here 4 times.

If I was Ameristar, I would push the responsibility to sloppy HVAC install vs. my product. The product is being replaced as advertised under warranty, but the cost of the 'free' coil will leave a bitter taste for a long time.

I understand the manugfacturer's warranty. The diagnostics and removal/installation labor should be covered under the installer's warranty from the original installation, only the parts are covered by Trane. If it was my company, I'd be covering the shipping as a courtesy to the customer, especially after having screwed up the job so bad the first few times around. I still think you're getting screwed.

Tommy