Home Automation

[brokenknee]

Was thinking of adding home automation / security system to the house. I do not want to pay a monthly monitoring fee. I have done a little research and there seams to be two types of systems available; 10X which works off your Wi-Fi and Z-wave which seams to work off 900mhz system that piggy backs device to device.

With the vast knowledge on the board I am sure there are some resident experts on the matter. What are the advantages / disadvantages to each system? Is one superior over the other or is it just personal preference?

Main use would be to add a security system with alarm and cameras and to control some lights and outlets for a block heater on my tractor. Home is a 1600 square foot slab house, 24 by 24 attached garage and a 20 by 30 detached shed.

I live in northern MN temp tonight if forecast to by a minus 17* F

 

[bczygan]

Subscribed

 

[paranoid56]

check out the zwave items. Att has a great little setup but stupid stupid monthly fees. I am waiting for my camera setup to show up (its the zwave controller and has the iphone interface) and i will be adding window and door sensors along with some water sensors and more cameras.

 

[jdmae86]

Anyone try out the system lowes pushes? http://www.lowes.com/cd_What+Is+Iris_695688710_

I have been thinking about adding it to my garage because it is about 40yrds behind my house in the woods. I'm able to get wifi in my shop from the house & If I add a repeater just in case I think it will be reliable.

 

[paranoid56]

you cant really link lowes web site as it just directs you do the main page. what is hte item number?
I know with zwave items, each item becomes its own range extender so it makes it easy for the whole house to have range.

 

[lisiecki1]

you cant really link lowes web site as it just directs you do the main page. what is hte item number?
I know with zwave items, each item becomes its own range extender so it makes it easy for the whole house to have range.

When I clicked on it, it sent me to the iris information page....

 

[csi123]

10X which works off your Wi-Fi and Z-wave which seams to work off 900mhz system that piggy backs device to device.

I assume you meant x10 (not 10x). Anyway x10 doesn't use wi-fi. It uses only your home electrical wiring. The protocol is probably the least reliable when compared to any other solutions since the protocol has no way to provide feedback from the device back to the switch. Be prepared to have lights turn on and off randomly, or lights wont turn on or off unless you hit the switch 10 times (hence the name x10 ).

x10 is neat to play with if you have never done any home automation. But don't use it for anything that actually need to serve a purpose.

 

[JTG]

I assume you meant x10 (not 10x). Anyway x10 doesn't use wi-fi. It uses only your home electrical wiring. The protocol is probably the least reliable when compared to any other solutions since the protocol has no way to provide feedback from the device back to the switch. Be prepared to have lights turn on and off randomly, or lights wont turn on or off unless you hit the switch 10 times (hence the name x10 ).

x10 is neat to play with if you have never done any home automation. But don't use it for anything that actually need to serve a purpose.

x2

I installed a bunch of x10 switches and outlets in my house about 10 years ago. I bought it because the kids were always leaving the lights on in the basement and I set it up to to shut off all the lights with one button. It worked well. I did have some random lights go on and off. The reason I pulled them all out is because they were getting hot. I could feel the heat from the switch cover, that made me nervous.

 

[jdmae86]

When I clicked on it, it sent me to the iris information page....

Here is a video of the system

I have been thinking about buying it for my garage...

 

[brokenknee]

Here is a link to an article on zwave. It seams the lowes iris system is zwave, premium service is ten bucks a month. there is also http://getvera.com/ which appears to be totally free.

forgot the linky http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/smarten-dumb-house-z-wave-automation/

 

[jomobco]

I just switched to Revolv from a Homeseer unit. Neither are subscriptions. I would sell you my Homeseer system which cost me a bundle but they don't allow it in their terms. Read the details before you buy. There are a number of controllers out there. You will love it once you get into it. Very cool. My blinds open and close at sunset/sunrise, lights go on from my iPhone app, I can run my thermostat, etc. Pretty cool how far you can go. Revolv is just getting started but stupid simple with more features coming they say. I've heard good things about the Vera systems. But there are many others. Dig and research.

 

[MNBackpacker]

X10 is going the way of the Dodo. Primarily you'll see devices around to support legacy installations, but folks have moved away from PLC (power line carrier) solutions, because they were unreliable if you had any line noise... Like from a simple phone charger, even. Like someone noted, only until more recently did they even provide 2-way communication, and so were mostly receivers, that didn't offer any type of 'confirmation/acknowledgement' of received signal.

The two big players for consumer HA protocols these days seem to be either Insteon or ZWave. Some suppliers like Smarthome have seemed to put favor in Insteon, which uses a hybrid PLC/RF (wireless, but not Wifi) signal. ZWave is RF/wireless only. Both create mesh 'networks' themselves, if memory serves, and afford bidirectional communication. Both tend to be far more reliable than X10 was, because they are confirming and polling as they communicate.

You'll find devices that will meet your stated needs for both protocols, but the lock industry seems to like ZWave. I just installed a Schlage motorized deadbolt that uses ZWave. I can check on it's status, and if need be, lock or unlock it from either a browser or my phone. Yale has models, as do others like Kwikset and Baldwin. Personally, I migrated my X10 system to Zwave, since it seems to have larger manufacturer support, in general. Schlage (Nexia?) and now Lowes (Iris) have their 'brands' of products designed to be out of box solutions, but are really just ZWave compatible systems in the end.

I dedicate a small computer and run a central automation product called Homeseer. It handles all the remote access control without the need for a recurring subscription fee; there are also tons of plugins for various systems, like irrigation, security, cameras, media, etc. Vera, as you linked to, is a similar type of product, just younger on the market. Homeseer also makes "set top box" like devices that avoid the need for a computer.
I haven't regretted choosing ZWave.

BTW, seeing where you're from - I do a fair amount of hunting in Bagley, Fosston, and Blackduck!

 

[willf650]

I have a Veralite I bought about 6 months ago. So far I have automated my front door, some lights, my thermostat, added motion and water detectors as well as a IP camera.

I whole heartedly recomend the Vera. It's easy to use and if you are so inclined you can litterly write programing code for it. There are guys continously writting new apps and plugins for it to extend it's functionanlity. Many of these apps allow you to do some pretty advanced control with out writng any code.

With some of these apps you can tie in thermostats, audio video, sprinkler systems and alarm systems. Case in point my thermostat is integrated with one via wifi.

Here is the app site. Take a peek and see what people have made to connect additional devices and systems to the Vera.
App store

You add devices and organize them by room.

Different devices give different little icons and action. They all have a common look and feel. Most of these devices are zwave but the camera and thermostat are wifi.

Someone even made an awsome trending app that really lets you see whats going on with any device and your house. It archives data to a usb memory stick.

Here's a couple little "scenes" I've created and they are very simpleto do.

This scene I bought an alarm siren to go off if one of the water detectors trips. I figured it wouldn't do any good for it to send you a text if your sitting at home with the phone charging or your sleeping.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DjGpaTYcwq0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


This scene is set to turn on the living room light when you unlock the door and it's night outside. I have since changed the programing to turn on the light as soon as the code is entered. With this logic it lends itself to allowing you to disarm the system by entering your code in the door knob. I currently am not using my system as an alarm.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yutBj3HilX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My first automation started off as simply turning on my exterior lights 30 minutes after dusk and off at 10pm. This was the second to turn my hallway light on as I walk through at night. I broke my toe letting my dog out at night so this was a priority.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sVMwxJygFCQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



I've had the system for probably 6 months and have been adding automation $30-$50 at a time. System is currently only doing zwave and wifi stuff but there is an adapter to do insteon. I've read about people putting in an alarm system and then bringing it into the vera and using all the motion sensors for automation purposes as the alarm motion sensors are cheaper than zwave ones.

If you have any questions ask and I can share my expierence so far. There are some pretty advanced user on the Vera forum that are doing some neat stuff.

 

[brokenknee]

X10 is going the way of the Dodo. Primarily you'll see devices around to support legacy installations, but folks have moved away from PLC (power line carrier) solutions, because they were unreliable if you had any line noise... Like from a simple phone charger, even. Like someone noted, only until more recently did they even provide 2-way communication, and so were mostly receivers, that didn't offer any type of 'confirmation/acknowledgement' of received signal.

The two big players for consumer HA protocols these days seem to be either Insteon or ZWave. Some suppliers like Smarthome have seemed to put favor in Insteon, which uses a hybrid PLC/RF (wireless, but not Wifi) signal. ZWave is RF/wireless only. Both create mesh 'networks' themselves, if memory serves, and afford bidirectional communication. Both tend to be far more reliable than X10 was, because they are confirming and polling as they communicate.

You'll find devices that will meet your stated needs for both protocols, but the lock industry seems to like ZWave. I just installed a Schlage motorized deadbolt that uses ZWave. I can check on it's status, and if need be, lock or unlock it from either a browser or my phone. Yale has models, as do others like Kwikset and Baldwin. Personally, I migrated my X10 system to Zwave, since it seems to have larger manufacturer support, in general. Schlage (Nexia?) and now Lowes (Iris) have their 'brands' of products designed to be out of box solutions, but are really just ZWave compatible systems in the end.

I dedicate a small computer and run a central automation product called Homeseer. It handles all the remote access control without the need for a recurring subscription fee; there are also tons of plugins for various systems, like irrigation, security, cameras, media, etc. Vera, as you linked to, is a similar type of product, just younger on the market. Homeseer also makes "set top box" like devices that avoid the need for a computer.
I haven't regretted choosing ZWave.

BTW, seeing where you're from - I do a fair amount of hunting in Bagley, Fosston, and Blackduck!

I broke the hinges on my computer after posting this; took a couple of weeks to get it back at $180 to get fixed maybe should just have replaced it. I live just south of Bagley on 40 acres. Lived most of my life in Blaine, MN.

Getting off topic. I checked out the homeseer website http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-Ultimate-Kit-P1372.aspx

I am just not sure what I need to get started, the kit has a homeseer home troller and a z stick. Then you add to that. What is the purpose of those two items? From the pick down list there seams to be a pretty good price difference. Don't want to waste money, but then do not want to purchase something I will need/want to upgrade in a short time as my plans/needs change.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[brokenknee]

I have a Veralite I bought about 6 months ago. So far I have automated my front door, some lights, my thermostat, added motion and water detectors as well as a IP camera.

I whole heartedly recomend the Vera. It's easy to use and if you are so inclined you can litterly write programing code for it. There are guys continously writting new apps and plug ins for it to extend it's functionanlity. Many of these apps allow you to do some pretty advanced control with out writng any code.

With some of these apps you can tie in thermostats, audio video, sprinkler systems and alarm systems. Case in point my thermostat is integrated with one via wifi.

Here is the app site. Take a peek and see what people have made to connect additional devices and systems to the Vera.

You add devices and organize them by room.

Differnt devices give diffeent little icons and action. They all have a common look and feel. Most of these devices are zwave but the camera and thermostat are wifi.

Someone even made an awsome treding app that really lets you see whats going on with any device and your house. It archives data to a usb memory stick.

Here's a couple little "scenes" I've created and they are very simpleto do.

This scene I bought an alarm siren to go off if one of the water detectors trips. I figured it wouldn't do any good for it to send you a text if your sitting at home with the phone charging or your sleeping.

This scene is set to turn on the living room light when you unlock the door and it's night outside. I have since changed the programing to turn on the light as soon as the code is entered. With this logic it lends itself to allowing you to disarm the system by entering your code in the door knob. I currently am not using my system as an alarm.

My first automation started off as simply turning on my exterior lights 30 minutes after dusk and off at 10pm. This was the second to turn my hallway light on as I walk through at night. I broke my toe letting my dog out at night so this was a priority.

I've had the system for probably 6 months and have been adding automation $30-$50 at a time. System is currently onliy doing zwave and wifi stuff but there is an adapter to do insteon. I've read about people putting in an alarm system and then bringing it into the vera and using all the motion sensors for automation purposes as the alarm motion sensors are cheaper than zwave ones.

If you have any questions ask and I can share my expierence so far. There are some pretty advanced user on the Vera forum that are doing some neat stuff.

You said you have veri lite, am I to assume there is a fee for upgraded services? Do you have any recommendations on what I would need to get started?

 

[willf650]

As of the moment there are no fees at all. I was told there will be a fee in the future if you want to archive video on their servers. As of the moment video archive is not supported directly through the Vera. There are some softwares out there that allow you to turn a computer into a dvr. You can archive snapshots and view video in the interface. Some one also made an app that takes video snap shots and uploads them directly to drop box. If you've not heard of Drop box, it is a service that gives you 5gb of free cloud storage. You install the software on all your computers and it creates a folder on the computer. Anything placed in the folder syncs between computers and the cloud. You can pay for additional capacity. The Vera app bypasses your computer a drops it directly to the cloud which intern can be synced to your computer.

For the first thing it depends on what you want to accomplish. I would suggest the Veralite and tie in a door knob with a key pad and your exterior lights. This will allow you to turn on your porch light at dusk and off at a specific time of night (unless you want the lights on all night). You could also unlock your front door and turn on your exterior lights from your car in the drive way.

Since my last post I have tied in my existing smoke detectors. I was able to do this with a $15 smoke detector accessory relay and a $38 window sensor. Since I have wired smoke detectors any one of them trips I get an alarm notification. I also programmed a scene that if it's at night and the smoke detector trips it turns on all my lights.

I have also tied in sensors on my garage doors. Thats for a future project to turn on entrance lights as I enter through the garage.

Do you want specifics on what devices I have used or just the suggestion above of where I would start?

The website for the controller is getvera.com

There are a few posts on their forum that they are starting to ship controllers with a new interface version. I can't comment on that version as I don't have it and will be holding off on upgrading until I see a need or benefit for it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[brokenknee]

Is the controller the only thing that is required to make the system work? You then add sensors etc. as you expand your system? I do have a router, do you need to keep your computer on all the time? If so, I have an old desktop running XP will that work?

How is the video quality of the cameras? Do you have any mounted outside and do they work in the cold weather?

What kind of battery life do you get with your sensors and cameras? Do most of them use the CR123 battery?

I am thinking of starting with this kit;
http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FAMILY-PACKAGE

I have also looked at this one;
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-Ultimate-Kit-P1372.aspx

I am not sure what the Zwave interface stick does second line down for $43.04

I know a lot of questions, thanks for your time to answer.

 

[willf650]

This is a screen capture off of my ipad. The camera quality isn't that great. That is the one thing I regret buying. I bought a $79 camera that I think the resolution is 480p. They sell another that is $150 that is twice the resolution. I would have went with the better camera if I did it again. This camera is definitely not rated for out doors. Most people seem to be buying cameras made by foscam. This system is fairly open so there is no need to stick with stuff sold by Vera. As long as the camera has a direct URL to view the video images it should work. Foscam does have some outdoor cameras but they are approaching $200. As you start pushing higher res images you will hog up your wifi signal so pulling Ethernet cable may be needed with several higher res cameras.

Remember the Vera doesn't have the memory to archive video. It's only capable of storing screen captures and providing an interface to view the cameras. The new ui version 6 is supposed to be better and that's where I heard from tech support they will start a subscription fee if you want archive video on their servers. There is a software available from foscam called blue iris that turns a computer into a dvr and is capable of monitoring 60 ip cameras. I would go that route first in the event I wanted to archive video as the software is $50.

You do not need to keep a computer online to run the system. The Vera is self contained and does all the direct control within itself. The Vera is a smaller controller and is supposed to be good for around 60 devices. You can bridge multiple Veras together with Ethernet to extend there capabilities or bridge to another building out of zwave range.

I've had my system less than a year and my sensors very in age from 8 months to 1 month. I've yet to need to replace a battery. I expect to replace batteries maybe every year or so but can't actually give you a real life numbers. Some devices I have the lithium batteries and others are using double and triple a. You can set it up to send you alerts as the batteries drop below a certain %. As with everything else some one has made a battery monitoring app. I can't view it via the ipad app but works via the web browser interface. It polls all the batteries powered devices and divides them into 3 separate tables based upon battery level. Battery life is dependent on how often a device is triggered to send a signal. It sounds as though you think the cameras run off batteries but that is not the case. They run off a plug in power supply. I have 3 different brands of motion sensor and they can run off batteries or hardwired 5 vdc.

I don't know anything about the homeseer device but would guess its a Linux box and you need the z wave stick to actually connect it to a zwave network. I would hope its more powerful than the Vera because it's 3 times the price. This may be a case of you get what you pay for.

I will admit I initially went with the Vera because of price. I was comparing it to a Lowes iris system and loved how open and customizable it was in comparison to some other sytems. That said to get the most out of it you will need to have the desire to tinker around. I have never regretted being "cheap" and going with the Vera. I work in the hvac control business and started putting in controllers from work and quickly stopped because it wasn't practical and cost effective. There was another home automation thread on this board I remember and people started talking about putting PLCs. Thats insane with the price and wiring needs. I've talked the owner of my company into to dumping his Schlage Nexia system and getting a Vera. Thats saying something as our parent company is Ingersol Rand and Schlage is a division of Ingersol Rand. That's the main reason the Nexia was in his home.



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