Home automation

[Estley]

i started down that rabbit hole like two years ago. Decided to go zwave since it seemed like the best balance between accessibility, availability and adoption. Started with a Vera hub, which worked fine, but i eventually moved to a smartthings, now i wish i would've just started there. I have most of the lights, front door lock, keen vents, and a honeywell zwave thermostat (the zwave part crapped out a couple of weeks ago), and i recently added two amazon echos.

All that has work reasonably well, yet not flawlessly. Two hvac people recommended i NOT install a nest nor any other "smart" thermostat, simply a connected one. They explained me three times why, and I'd be lying if i said i understood. As far as software, i've gotten it to do pretty much everything i want with the smartthings software, and IFTTT, it was a lot of fidgeting in the beginning, but it's gotten fairly simple to run and maintain.

Mind you, my needs are fairly simple, i don't do any scenes nor complex behaviors. Basically my system does this:

turn outside lights at sunset, turn them off and lock the front door at 9pm

unlock the front door when my wife and/or i are a block from home

turn the living room (first room you walk into the house) lights on if the front door is unlocked after sunset (our favorite function)

the smart lock is very convenient, since we installed it we only carry our car keys and out neighbor has a key just in case. The baby sitter, and people that may need to get into the house have their own codes, and i get a notification via IFTTT when the front door is unlocked, my only gripe there is that i don't know which code was used, and the lock i have is not manageable remotely, you have to do it at the lock, i guess it's a security issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[penright]

I thought I'd come back and give a little update to this project. First though a question, should I just add to this thread or start a new one for the whole project?

Definitely add here.

Now after doing some digging and asking I'll lay out a basic plan. I will be using an ELK M1 for security

What stage are you at? Have you got the ELK M1 yet?
Who does the monitoring and how much?
Smoke/CO detectors?
Cell tech?
How does it fit into the HA?
Looks like "Lucy has some googling todo"
Within a couple of weeks it will be time for me to pick my security system for the new house. My guy is all Honeywell, I wonder if he could monitor the ELK?

and integrating it with a ISY944i home automation

Some more googling.

 

[yeldogt]

I find it interesting that my insurance company will not insure my new house without a wired alarm -- no controlled door locks. Have to go "old school" Primus key

My goal with automation has been to make my life easier .... understand some get almost as much enjoyment out of the inner workings .. I'm also a bit of a "geek" with this stuff.

All of my houses have complicated multi layered lighting -- I have no desire to turn one bulb on with my cell phone. I want my house to look lived in while away and be ready when I arrive -- I need room controllers vs setting a bunch of dimmers. Dedicated occupancy sensors .... I'm hard wiring lighting together to eliminate any incompatibility.

 

[tribbles]

Subscribing. I had an X-10 setup in the duplex we were renting fifteen years ago but when we moved to the triplex we're in now, everything was Decora so I didn't reinstall anything. We're buying a house now and the market has seemingly exploded in that time with multiple incompatible systems. Add CFL and LED lighting to the mix and it's like I'm starting back at square one.

 

[heffneil]

I had to replace a lot - almost all of my incandescent dimmers from HAI when I moved to LED. I don't think I will ever recoup the cost of the switches (even wholesale) and the replacement fixtures which about 2 or 3 years ago were cutting edge. I use UPB which is the next version of X10. Again I really like it and while once or twice I will have a miss of something not firing I am very happy with it and I can replace alll my switches one day with standard decora if I or anyone else chooses. No central lighting system to replace boards when hit by lightning

 

[tribbles]

Well, I decided to go Z-Wave with a HomeSeer Zee S2 controller in my new house. The previous owner had installed a basic SimpliSafe alarm system whose functionality will eventually be subsumed by the Z-Wave setup.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[PT Doc]

This is almost a bad time to be starting a home automation setup because there are a lot of competing standards out there, and the market hasn't settled on one or two of them. Kinda like the Beta/VHS days, and the guys who bought Beta ended up with a boat anchor.

I still have a bunch of X10 **** automating things because I'm not willing to pull the trigger on a new protocol until I'm reasonably sure it'll be supported for at least the foreseeable future, and also because a lot of home automation stuff out there now uses a remote server for control.

For example, the MyQ setup which is centered around garage door openers requires Liftmaster's server in order to work - if Liftmaster's server goes down, the app doesn't work, which means you lose the "smart" functionality of the opener until the server is back online.

That's fine for Liftmaster because it doesn't go down very often (I think only twice in the 4 years I've had it) and because Liftmaster is a pretty well-established company and is unlikely to go belly-up any time soon.

But what happens when an automation company goes out of business? Their server goes dark permanently and then you're out of luck unless they're kind enough to opensource it before they die, and someone else comes up with a workaround that you can use without having to talk to their server.

This has already happened to people who bought the Revolv home automation system - Google bought it, folded it into Nest, and then shut down the Revolv servers which means everyone who owns one now owns a $300 paperweight.

Because of that, I'm not going to upgrade from X10 until there's a standardized protocol that any company can use and that does not require a server that I do not control to be active in order to function.

Also, with the voice automation setups out there (Google Home, Amazon Echo) if you're not already aware, they have an always-on microphone which is listening for their activation phrase (you say "hey Google," and the device knows you want it to listen to whatever you say next)... But it's recording everything, and storing it for an indeterminate amount of time.

There's a court case right now where the prosecution was trying to get access to an Echo recording - it was going to be a real test of whether or not you still have privacy if you have a voice activated automation hub, but the owner gave permission to access so it didn't end up getting tested in court yet -- and what this means is that it's still possible that the government, and other people, can listen in to anything you say in your house if you have one of these things. That may or may not concern you, but you should be aware of it.

Get ready for a long and painful journey, and it probably won't get better any time soon. I love automation and have been playing in the space personally and professionally for a couple of decades, but it's still far from prime time, we've had competing standards since the beginning, and you're either going to get products that come from an industrial controls heritage that rely on legacy stuff (rs-232 anyone?) and have a horrible UI, but work OK, or newfangled stuff that's has a great UI but the company may abandon the product tomorrow.

You also should realize that your family may not be amused when the lights won't turn on/off, and you may not be amused when you're having a crisis at work and the kids are calling you because that cool TV server your built is down and they can't watch Peppa Pig.

I don't want to be everyone's least famous transformer Negatron, but it's been frustrating waiting 20 years for improvements that are "just around the corner."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed!

 

[Jackpod]

I was big into automation for many years. I pretty much stopped participating about 5 years ago. It is a challenge to keep obsolescence out of your system. I was a Homeseer and Cinemar Mainlobby user from the start and heavily posted on the HS forum. I had X10, Wireless X10, tried insteon and zwave, had RFID, automated thermostats, integrated a weather station, had voice recognition and text to speech. Plugin authors would decide to fall off the planet with no ongoing support. As it became more popular companies would decide on a whim to go a different direction, at a moments notice discontinue a product line (Smarthome) comes to mind and it became the rage to introduce new devices that were not compatible with older devices in the same protocol. It became a full time job. Impressive yes, but the feasibility decreased. When I sold the house I removed all the devices and I still have it but it is mostly still in boxes. At the end of the run I had just as many defunct subsystems as I had active. I have a little automation in my shop (7 X10 keypads and inline appliance modules) for lights and my dust collector. It is nice to be able to turn my dust collector on from pretty much anywhere. The one thing to keep in mind is what will happen to your spouse if something happens to you. Even the best designed systems fail and if it is truly a custom designed and built system it will take an experienced person to bring the system back online. I had varying levels of automation from 1998 to 2012. I waited a lot of years for it to become prime time and it still isn't there yet, except for the dedicated systems like Crestron.

Don't get me wrong it is a thrill to have occupancy sensors. verbally turn lights on and off, but at one point in time I had over 120 devices, hundreds of custom written scripts it was the biggest money pit I ever got addicted to

 

[PT Doc]

I read all the posts. Very interesting to read the realistic retrospective opinions on these systems. Seems like it's lots of fun for the tech geek but is costly and will likely have some reliability issues compared to hard wired systems. Obviously not for everyone.

 

[kbuhagiar]

I was big into automation for many years. I pretty much stopped participating about 5 years ago. It is a challenge to keep obsolescence out of your system. I was a Homeseer and Cinemar Mainlobby user from the start and heavily posted on the HS forum. I had X10, Wireless X10, tried insteon and zwave, had RFID, automated thermostats, integrated a weather station, had voice recognition and text to speech. Plugin authors would decide to fall off the planet with no ongoing support. As it became more popular companies would decide on a whim to go a different direction, at a moments notice discontinue a product line (Smarthome) comes to mind and it became the rage to introduce new devices that were not compatible with older devices in the same protocol. It became a full time job. Impressive yes, but the feasibility decreased. When I sold the house I removed all the devices and I still have it but it is mostly still in boxes. At the end of the run I had just as many defunct subsystems as I had active. I have a little automation in my shop (7 X10 keypads and inline appliance modules) for lights and my dust collector. It is nice to be able to turn my dust collector on from pretty much anywhere. The one thing to keep in mind is what will happen to your spouse if something happens to you. Even the best designed systems fail and if it is truly a custom designed and built system it will take an experienced person to bring the system back online. I had varying levels of automation from 1998 to 2012. I waited a lot of years for it to become prime time and it still isn't there yet, except for the dedicated systems like Crestron.

Don't get me wrong it is a thrill to have occupancy sensors. verbally turn lights on and off, but at one point in time I had over 120 devices, hundreds of custom written scripts it was the biggest money pit I ever got addicted to

My sentiments exactly...it's easy to fall down the rabbit hole of home automation and get caught up in the novelty. Fortunately I have been able to limit my involvement to control of exterior lighting (five light switches) and HVAC thermostat. I hadn't planned on having control of my garage doors, but it's sort of part and parcel of the 8500 garage door openers (I have three of them), and they threw in the Internet interface for free, so I could't resist.

 

[Jackpod]

While the wireless devices are pretty reliable and stable, there is so much RF out there these days, everything is wireless it would seem that a wired system would be more stable, but that is not the case. The power coming into your home is a far cry from being clean. When I had my system setup I had installed whole house filters and surge protectors which took care of things mostly. There were times when the system would run flawlessly for months at a time and then one day nothing would work. come to find out I or my wife moved an electrical device to another outlet and then it would be getting out the oscilloscope to try and track down the noise. spikes on the powerline would randomly trigger devices. I ran parallel alarm and smoke detector systems because one night quietly sitting watching TV the police and fire dept surrounded my house because the automation system told the alarm system someone had broken into my house and set it on fire. The vacuum cleaner turned off but still plugged in would take down that entire branch circuit, but not all the time. I had filters all over the place. There definitely were trying times

 

[Jackpod]

I don't think I would ever trust the security of my house to the internet. All of my "remote control" was via voice recognition. I would call the house, the system would recognize my cell number, speak the passphrase and the system (her name was SUSI) would carry out my voice commands. I also had RFID tags in my vehicles, when the tag came into range the electric gate would open turn on inside and outside lights (if it was dark) and start the whole house audio playing. RFID was yet another subsystem that would be flawless and then decide one day to either refuse to open the gate or cycle the gate continuously. there were a few times the gate would try to close on me as I was driving through, totally disregarding the 30 second delay. I often felt I was married to 2 women (my wife and SUSI)

 

[kwschumm]

While the wireless devices are pretty reliable and stable, there is so much RF out there these days, everything is wireless it would seem that a wired system would be more stable, but that is not the case. The power coming into your home is a far cry from being clean. When I had my system setup I had installed whole house filters and surge protectors which took care of things mostly. There were times when the system would run flawlessly for months at a time and then one day nothing would work. come to find out I or my wife moved an electrical device to another outlet and then it would be getting out the oscilloscope to try and track down the noise. spikes on the powerline would randomly trigger devices. I ran parallel alarm and smoke detector systems because one night quietly sitting watching TV the police and fire dept surrounded my house because the automation system told the alarm system someone had broken into my house and set it on fire. The vacuum cleaner turned off but still plugged in would take down that entire branch circuit, but not all the time. I had filters all over the place. There definitely were trying times

"Wired" does not necessarily mean power line communication. I had an HAI system where everything was hard wired with low voltage wiring. Worked flawlessly. Well, after 15 years the dial-out chip decided it wanted to hoard the phone line but everything else still worked and a new board fixed it. Hard to install in an existing home but I'll install another one in the new house we're building. Unfortunately, Leviton bought HAI and their products have since languished in technology but it does everything I want to do and more.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Well, I am now entering the world of Nexia. We had a lightning strike that killed the stat, and we now have a Trane stat which uses Nexia. I wish it talked to Homekit but it's not a big deal that it doesn't.

Need to learn more about Nexia. It seems that it's basically a competitor to HomeKit in that it integrates other products? So far all I have (besides the stat) is two Homekit light switches.

 

[pgray007]

I read all the posts. Very interesting to read the realistic retrospective opinions on these systems. Seems like it's lots of fun for the tech geek but is costly and will likely have some reliability issues compared to hard wired systems. Obviously not for everyone.

It's not so much hard wire vs. wireless, but rather the "automation" part of the equation that actually makes all the devices do neat and useful things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ambenz]

I just got out of the commercial HVAC/lighting/security automation BACnet industry and I wouldn't waste my money or time on home automation...with in a short time, it's obsolete due to Windows/Droid/MAC driving the computer market, changing the basic interface platform that you will constantly be upgrading.
Not to mention those companies change product design to newer protocols and keeping up with technology....the smart switch you buy will not be available in 5 years. We use to tell our customers to have a inventory of parts.
Good luck keeping controllers running for 10 yrs, relays wearing out, actuators failing, and a slew of other software upgrades, you'll be pulling your hair out in no time keeping it all running.

I really am serious....the more you automate, the more your gonna have to maintain. Maintenance costs have to be a major factor in determining your technology design!!! Loose power and your rebooting systems, hoping the memory didn't get wiped or a chip didn't get fried from the electric storm. I have a few cameras and some basic alarms I made out of simple relays, that's it.

Just simpler to turn off the light when you leave, set up timers on lamps before vacation, and have the local Police do a vacation check on the home until you get back. I don't have to worry about finding parts in 10 years because it is pretty basic. KISS rules if you don't want a lot of maintenance problems.

 

[kwschumm]

I just got out of the commercial HVAC/lighting/security automation BACnet industry and I wouldn't waste my money or time on home automation...with in a short time, it's obsolete due to Windows/Droid/MAC driving the computer market, changing the basic interface platform that you will constantly be upgrading.
Not to mention those companies change product design to newer protocols and keeping up with technology....the smart switch you buy will not be available in 5 years. We use to tell our customers to have a inventory of parts.
Good luck keeping controllers running for 10 yrs, relays wearing out, actuators failing, and a slew of other software upgrades, you'll be pulling your hair out in no time keeping it all running.
I really am serious....the more you automate, the more your gonna have to maintain. I have a few cameras and some basic alarms I made out of simple relays, that's it. Just simpler to turn off the light when you leave, set up timers on lamps before vacation, and have the local Police to a vacation check on the home until you get home. I don't have to worry about finding parts in 10 years because it is pretty basic. KISS rules if you don't want a lot of maintenance problems.

KISS can also mean careful product selection. Pick light switches that will work without a controller (Z-Wave is a bonus) or PLC (once they're in the wall they aren't going anywhere). Drive outputs using contact closures instead of fancy protocols. Do it in hardware and even if the controller is obsolete you can still make stuff work. Same with inputs, use contact closures. Contact closures are still digital you know

 

[garage guy1of38]

The brand you chose pails in comparison to the HA Integrator you select.

 

[kTHREE]

The brand you chose pails in comparison to the HA Integrator you select.

x200, truck slammer elites.

 

[ard]

The brand you chose pails in comparison to the HA Integrator you select.

"Alexa, how do you spell pale?"

 

[garage guy1of38]

"Alexa, how do you spell pale?"

Hahaha. D'oh!


I am so SMRT

 

[6768rogues]

My brother in law put all kinds of wiring and devices in his house and like so many things, he did not finish the job. It has never been used and is now all obsolete.
I have a device that calls my cell phone when the temperature drops below 50 degrees in my house or if the power goes off, for when I am away in the winter. Amazon $100.
My outside pole light has a day/night eye.
I don't even have an automatic thermostat. If I am warm, I turn it down. If I am cold, you get the picture.
That is all the automation I need. My brother in law wanted to close his blinds remotely. I can't think of a reason that I would want to do that. I like to keep it simple.
You said you are an electrician and maybe you can learn a lot and dazzle your friends. Cool stuff, but not my thing.

 

[AntonLargiader]

For the right house, I can see automatic blinds (and ventilation) being quite an energy saver.

 

[Reit38]

is there a light switch that can be controlled as a normal light switch but also automated


ex. tell alexa turn on light

even tho the light switch is off

then leave the room and turn the light physically turn off the light

 

[kbuhagiar]

is there a light switch that can be controlled as a normal light switch but also automated


ex. tell alexa turn on light

even tho the light switch is off

then leave the room and turn the light physically turn off the light

Yes.

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F7C030/

I have five of them and they work great with Alexa.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I have some Leviton switches that work that way with HomeKit.

 

[86turbodsl]

For the right house, I can see automatic blinds (and ventilation) being quite an energy saver.

I second this. i have a master bedroom that's in the turret of a victorian replica and on the south side of the house, with all the windows on a sunny day it really adds to the heat load or cooling load. i would like automatic blinds that open or close depending on needs.

 

[6768rogues]

If I get up in the morning and it is going to be hot and sunny, I close the blinds. If it is going to be cold and sunny, I open them. It takes less than a minute. If I forget, so what. I will be home eventually and will correct the situation. All that automatic stuff is just more things to break just after they become obsolete and parts are no longer available. I am getting up in years, but I hope I am a long way from having to use some type of machine to open and close the blinds. If I am ever confined to a bed and my wife leaves me, I will consider automating the window blinds.
I was at a product show and saw a high tech solar clothes dryer. My grandmother had one decades ago but she called it her clothesline.

 

[AntonLargiader]

If I get up in the morning and it is going to be hot and sunny, I close the blinds...

OK, but if this subject doesn't interest you then why are you here?