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Home flooring question (not the garage)

st.ryder64

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Feb 12, 2015
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Cleveland, OH
Strap in, this'll take some explanation.

We have a split level home, with a mudroom off the garage that's a concrete slab. It was previously finished half with carpeting and half with 2 layers of vinyl tiles. We've removed the tiles and carpeting, as we want to lay down 18" ceramic tile. The concrete that was under the tile has a couple different issues. I'm not convinced it's 100% level, or at least level enough for large ceramic tile. So I'm thinking of applying self-leveling compound throughout the room to whatever thickness gets me what I need. First questions:

1. Will the self-leveling compound bond to the concrete that has the old tile thinset residue?

2. Do I need any kind of waterproofing layer anywhere in this equation? The room has always been perfectly dry, but I've read some things about tiling right over a concrete slab.

Moving on, as we leave this room, heading into the main part of the house, we have 4 steps going up to the next level. I'd like to continue an uncarpeted path through the house to the front door on this level, since this is a main traffic area and the carpet takes a beating. I know I can't install the ceramic tile on those stairs, and once I get to the next level, we're on standard wood subflooring anyway. I'm not interested in building up that flooring for ceramic tile, since it would create all kinds of different heights to the other flooring, weird stair riser heights, etc. So I found a groutable vinyl tile which perfectly matches the ceramic chosen for the lower level. More questions:

3. Is the grout used for vinyl tile more flexible than that used for ceramic? Because if it's not, it'll all just crack anyway without the floor being reinforced, and I'm back to square one.
 
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Kaizen

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I have never seen a groutable vinyl tile. Kind of defeats the purpose. I have only used adhesive if it doesn't have it on there already.
If the floor is dry and not falling apart it should bind fine. You need to get all that adhesive off as it will stop the self leveling "flow". Have you priced that stuff out? Even to do an eighth of an inch for a whole room gets up there. Spend a lot of time with cleaning the floor then find how much of a difference and where. Depending on how big the room is will usually dictate if it's noticeable.


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MushCreek

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They do make groutable vinyl tile. I think the special 'grout' is more like sanded caulking so it remains somewhat flexible. have no idea how well this set-up actually works.
 
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st.ryder64

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I have never seen a groutable vinyl tile. Kind of defeats the purpose. I have only used adhesive if it doesn't have it on there already.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Congoleum-...-Stone-Luxury-Residential-Vinyl-Tile/50246877

If the floor is dry and not falling apart it should bind fine. You need to get all that adhesive off as it will stop the self leveling "flow". Have you priced that stuff out? Even to do an eighth of an inch for a whole room gets up there. Spend a lot of time with cleaning the floor then find how much of a difference and where. Depending on how big the room is will usually dictate if it's noticeable.

I'm not overly concerned about 'noticeable'. I'm concerned about cracked tile due to inconsistencies in the surface.
 

Kaizen

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that product says not available on lowes.com anymore...no reviews....eh.
just sayin i'd use it no grout/caulking. no one is going to notice but you.
like I said clean the floor then take a 6 foot straightedge or level and see what you are talking about. is it wavy? cracked? pitched different ways?
lets say for example there is a bowl in the middle 1/2 inch deep 7 feet across. then yes use a top coat. but if there is 1/16 or 8th inch differences over the same span then i'd just use a thicker layer of grout under it. personally I try to stick to 12inch tiles as the 16 or bigger ones are harder to set on a imperfect surface. they normally need thicker trowel and I find harder to level them.
more description and pictures might help others give opinion
 

Motown

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Both Armstrong and Mannington have grout able vinyl tile. I have the Armstrong in my kitchen. Its a very nice product.
 

yeldogt

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You can't tile over the the black tar stuff -- it will not stick. You can tile over proper concrete -- no cracks or movement in the slab. If you have cracks it needs a film/screen to isolate the two.

How big is the room? If it's out by much the adjustment can be tricky.

Our city place has linoleum in the laundry/ back entrance ... you can get some very nice vinyl tiles and sheet goods (linoleum is more expensive). We have slate at the other place .. both have a small rug, as any form of tile gets a mess/ slippery when wet. Don't overlook commercial carpet. I use it at our ski place including the lower level w/slab and my rentals -- you can purchase very nice good looking commercial carpet that can't be killed.

If I was you it would be carpet -- on the floor and up the stairs (no slip) .. done .. and not expensive.
 

kwschumm

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Both Armstrong and Mannington have grout able vinyl tile. I have the Armstrong in my kitchen. Its a very nice product.

It sure does look good. I was going to go with the Armstrong grouted vinyl tile but owner reviews on the Armstrong website changed my mind. The predominant complaint seemed to be that the pattern layer wears off easily leaving an ugly under layer visible. These could be old problems, since remedied, or a bad batch, or bogus reviews. Only saying do your research, especially warranty coverage requirements and benefits.
 
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theoldwizard1

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1. Will the self-leveling compound bond to the concrete that has the old tile thinset residue?
I would grind it with a Diamabrush (they make a 4.5" version). Clean any residue well. Not sure if you need to etch before the self leveling compound. Follow label directions.


2. Do I need any kind of waterproofing layer anywhere in this equation?
You should not. The self leveling compound is a cementitious product. Most (all?) thinsets are compatible with cement. Read the label.
 

a91syncro

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Stoughton, Wisconsin
ill chime in here. You want to make sure all of the old adhesive or mortar is removed. usually it can be scraped off.Most self levelers that i have used require a primer so the self leveler will stick. The question I have is it not level or just not flat, makes a big difference. You can have a flat floor that is not level. If it is flat i would use a 1/2 inch notch trowel and mortar made for large format tile and skip the leveling. There are a few brands of waterproof membranes that will go on before setting tile. It can't hurt to roll some on cheap insurance. The grout is different for vinyl and ceramic. This coming from a tile setter for 17 years of commercial and residential settings. Good luck with your project. Also check out your local tile supply store they can help with these questions also
 

doorfx

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I am having them installed tomorrow with grout.
67a3e05bc511a458be4cae053618981b.jpg

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Foyer, kitchen, dining room and both bathrooms.
 

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Kaizen

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Such tile floors are the standard for luxuary installations for more than 2000 years. Vinyl can be installed (mostly ) can be installed with grout or without. For authentic look people go with grout. For sleeker look it is used installed without grout.



So they had vinyl flooring in the pyramids? And here I thought polyvinyl chloride was just discovered in 1800s


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Kaizen

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I am having them installed tomorrow with grout.
67a3e05bc511a458be4cae053618981b.jpg

02def1c3f0a6530bad302b4bcef79cb2.jpg

653245a0c278d736613e0d643c63fc6d.jpg


Foyer, kitchen, dining room and both bathrooms.



Hope it goes well for you. Curious did you get a price difference for those vs ceramic with grout?


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doorfx

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@kaizan
Ceramics would have been considerably more expensive in labor. We would of had to remove all the Lino first to install ceramic. The vinyl is also much warmer and softer to walk on.
913d7a93f60fe16c9c6c11745a1a3684.jpg

I'll get another picture after it is grouted
 

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Kaizen

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Definitely looks nice. Just a new thing I haven't seen on vinyl.


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