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Home hobbyist micrometer set

xbanone

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West Virginia
I am looking for a mic set for home use, I am not a machinist but I do mess with my share of small block Chevy's, Kohler engnes and motorcycle engines and would like to build a flathead ford one day. I'd like to be able to check piston clearances and bearing/journal clearances at home.

I don't need and can't afford mitutoyo or starrett set but don't want to buy junk either. Can anyone point me in the direction of some affordable useable mics? Should I buy a set or maybe piece at a time used as I find them?
 
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rockwithjason

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i have had good luck with the harbor freight calipers and mics. you could also surf craigslist but beware of abused units
 

royesses

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Mar 28, 2009
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Try looking at Enco and look at the Fowler and imported brands against the Big name brands. They have a 20% off special through 12/2/13 ending at 11:00 pm. Use Code "CYBER" for 20% off and Then Code "Monday" for free shipping.
https://www.use-enco.com/
 

Pudge87

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Nov 11, 2012
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Spartanburg SC
If you have time to wait, I say piece a set together. Mics and calipers are pretty much worthless to most people, so I've seen the big 3 go for cheap. Also in most cases, the person that's selling them either made a living with them or got used very rarely so condition is normally great.

MSC sells a brand called SPI, and my experience is pretty good with it.
 
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JoeFin

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NorCal - where the Rednecks Race
You don't ask for too much do ya

Mics for cylinders get REAL pricey Real Fast. A Brown and Sharp Intermic in the sizes your looking for can set you back a couple of grand real quick. Attempting to measure the taper of cylinder wall with a 2 point indicator is challenging for the best of machinist.

Any thing from Shars or Happy Fart is a complete waste of time as they will only repeat for a limited amount of time and if you happen to drop them once - they're done altogether

Check Eboner and hold out for a quality 3 Point Indicator. Even a Federal is ok as you can replace the actual movement with a Mity if you need to. Just make sure which ever 1 you choose they still make the replacement "points" for it as you will never see a complete set up on Ebone. Then go ahead and order the points you will need for 3", 3.5" and 4" cylinders.

As for Mics, you can't go wrong with Starett, Mity or Brown and Sharp. Although if you can find the "Spring Load Thimbul" Mitutoyo Mics - I'll trade you Starett mics straight across for them any day.

Make sure the seller has a liberal return policy including your shipping cost. For bearing journals you'll want the 1-2" ans 2-3" mics

And you'll want 1 good caliper too. I don't like digital and have no problem reading mics or calipers so I don't pay the extra cost for digital

All told your looking at less then $200 if you can take your time and wait for a good deal to present itself

on edit

Oh ya - SPI is junk too. They outsourced every thing to China a few years back and it really shows in the quality
 
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JoeFin

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NorCal - where the Rednecks Race
BTW - this is a 3 point indicator I gave to a friend a few years back

bore-gage003.jpg




Being a machinist himself he made the points as he needed them. But at .0005" it will tell you pretty well the condition of the cylinder walls

bore-gage004.jpg


bore-gage002.jpg
 

trexdoink

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Dec 28, 2010
Messages
259
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Iowa
If you have time to wait, I say piece a set together. Mics and calipers are pretty much worthless to most people, so I've seen the big 3 go for cheap. Also in most cases, either the person that's selling them either made a living with them or got used very rarely so condition is normally great.

MSC sells a brand called SPI, and my experience is pretty good with it.

Great Advice, MSC is your friend for all that machine stuff. Just watch the sales and garage sales. All the stuff I bought is used.
 

Pudge87

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Messages
154
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Spartanburg SC
What problems have you noticed with SPI? I haven't noticed anything wrong with the dial indicator or 12" calipers.

Also IMO, I don't care if the mics or calipers are off. If you have both parts that are going to be running with each other, you will still be able to tell how much clearance you will have.

Another thing is, get a good feel for measuring. I don't care if your mics read in tenths, if you can't repeat that slight drag each time, they're worthless
 

Pudge87

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Messages
154
Location
Spartanburg SC
BTW - this is a 3 point indicator I gave to a friend a few years back

bore-gage003.jpg




Being a machinist himself he made the points as he needed them. But at .0005" it will tell you pretty well the condition of the cylinder walls

bore-gage004.jpg


bore-gage002.jpg

Dial bore gauge will yield better results.
 

Pudge87

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Scenerio....

I could take my el cheapo micrometers, measure my piston and never even look at the size. Then take my dial bore gauge and zero it out to the mics that just measured the piston and then see how much clearance I have. Done deal without ever knowing a size.
 

cheechi

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4,384
Location
Triad, NC
Regardless of the measuring tool, I would spend good money on some simple calibration tools, assuming your tools don't/didn't come with one. And I would spend the money on a good dial indicator regardless of anything else you get.

I have a HF set of mics that have inch stops to check it. My Mitutoyo caliper says they're on the money. The school's set of parallels are also thickness gages, and they say the mitu is on the money. So I have gotten by with a 6" HF, 6" mitu, and those HF mics even though the mics are only .001

I also have a 'digital thickness gage' mic from HF that is good for its size & plastic/lightweight add to the usefulness. It's not perfect for your uses but worth a mention. Digital is nice for some things, and quick but not a requirement for me at least.
 

justanengineer

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Motor City
If you have time to wait, I say piece a set together. Mics and calipers are pretty much worthless to most people, so I've seen the big 3 go for cheap. Also in most cases, either the person that's selling them either made a living with them or got used very rarely so condition is normally great.

Yup, this^^^.
 

kenburkholz

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241
The old garage sale scene seems to be the best place to find used stuff like this. At garage sales, and estate sales these items are being sold by people who don't know what they are. Ken.:dunno:
 
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JoeFin

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NorCal - where the Rednecks Race
What problems have you noticed with SPI? I haven't noticed anything wrong with the dial indicator or 12" calipers.

Also IMO, I don't care if the mics or calipers are off. If you have both parts that are going to be running with each other, you will still be able to tell how much clearance you will have.

Another thing is, get a good feel for measuring. I don't care if your mics read in tenths, if you can't repeat that slight drag each time, they're worthless

Exactly my point too

The SPI calipers I had had a sticky tooth straight from the factory. Also if the inside points don't match the Outside or at least flex to the same degree - then they have a problem

Of course I always find when going from Internal Hole Mics to Outside Mics challenging even after checking them both with precision gages if they don't both have a smooth solid movement
 

Adam.C

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Enough with Harbor Freight guys. HF may be ok for somethings, but not this.

Check the wear limits for the vehicles you are interested in just to get a sense for what you need. I'm not an engine builder, so I can only guess they are looing for clearances in the neighborhood of .004 (.1mm) MAX.

To get a clearance you need to subtract 2 measurements, OD and ID, so realistically, you need to split your allowable accuracy between the 2 measurements.

Good mitutoyo digital calipers are only stated good to +/-.001". I don't think that's good enough. And this is in skilled hands. To get less than .001" accuracy you need a micrometer and a good one.

What you need is a digital bore gage. I would only get a mitutoyo as they are the best, most reliable digitals out there. Swiss digitals are ok. SPI/Fowler are sometimes Swiss, most times Chinese and simply not good enough. They will give you the wrong answer. I would search ebay until you find a decent bore gage. The alternative is not good.

The alternative is you could use telescoping gages. I recommend Starrett 579(self centering over the 229). You would probably need a 3-4" so S579D. You can find these on ebay for cheap. It's a dead simple tool, so you won't get a bad one. Just make sure the faces are clean. But these add time and inaccuracy that you have to account for with your mic.

For mics I recommend the industry standard Starrett 436. These have been around for 100 years, and are readily available second hand in good shape. Only trick is, you need a standard you can trust to set them to. It (and the mic) should be clean and you need to learn how to adjust your mic to take accurate readings. I recommend getting an inexpensive mic stand- especially for beginners. Brown and Sharpe and Lufkin are also to be recommended, but these are sometimes harder to find.

I recommend you buy a few miscellaneous gage blocks (any brand will do- just as long as they are clean) and practice measuring them. You will quickly find that you don't really know how to measure stuff. This is good to do with a digital caliper as well. You'd be surprised how much your technique effects the measurement.

You can do good work with simple, high quality tools. I doubt new cheap tools will suffice for this. For measurements of +/-.001", I think you can get away with harbor freight etc.

Example- I calibrated my HF dig calipers. They are really good. Once you learn the proper technique, you can read within .001". But certain spots in the 6" range are just plain off by .0005 or more. My calipers read small by .001" at 2" but 3" and 1" are good. That's what you get with cheap measuring tools. They could be okay, or could be okay in spots. But not good enough for tight tolerances.
 

tdkkart

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Scenerio....

I could take my el cheapo micrometers, measure my piston and never even look at the size. Then take my dial bore gauge and zero it out to the mics that just measured the piston and then see how much clearance I have. Done deal without ever knowing a size.


This......

9 times out of 10 the measurements you are taking are a comparison between two parts. Measure the inside with a plug gauge, snap gauge or even bore gauge, measure that with a mic and then use the mic to measure what's fitting in the hole.
While a mic that's off .001"/ft is alot in 10 feet, it's barely measurable in a .002-004" range.

Look at what you're going to be doing. If .0001-.0002" error is going to make a difference between a good and a bad day, you've got no business doing the job in a home shop anyway.
If +/- .005" is good enough you can buy your stuff anywhere.
 

Adam.C

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This......

If +/- .005" is good enough you can buy your stuff anywhere.

Agreed. But in this case, +/-.005 is NOT good enough.

Remember he isn't taking one measurement, but rather a series of measurements- three sets (top middle bottom) down each jug. If he uses a telescoping gage, he will need to double that number, taking x-axis and y-axis measurements.

Cylinders don't wear evenly. Yes he is comparing piston to cylinder. But he is also "contour mapping" the cylinders. With allowable clearances of .001-.004", a +/- .001" error in measuring would be significant.

The next question is what he's going to do with this information. Technically, you could hone the cylinders by hand. If you do that, you need to be able to measure in the tenths .000X" precisely (repeatedly).

My advice is to get decent tools, even if they are second hand Starretts or Equiv, or don't bother. You could do more harm than good otherwise. No digital caliper I know can do what is required.
 

larry_g

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Apr 28, 2007
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oregon
Long Island Indicator

Go to the LI Indicator site linked above. Scroll down and read the brand comparison information for the tool your looking for. Treat it as an educational experience. These people are one of the recognized experts by the machinist world. Once you understand then you can make some educated decisions.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Beenman

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Oct 20, 2013
Messages
486
Location
Pretoria, South Africa
I am looking for a mic set for home use, I am not a machinist but I do mess with my share of small block Chevy's, Kohler engnes and motorcycle engines and would like to build a flathead ford one day. I'd like to be able to check piston clearances and bearing/journal clearances at home.

I don't need and can't afford mitutoyo or starrett set but don't want to buy junk either. Can anyone point me in the direction of some affordable useable mics? Should I buy a set or maybe piece at a time used as I find them?

Do you get Sylvac over in the US? Not as pricey as Mitutoyo or Starrett but pretty decent. Most of their stuff is IP67 rated (i.e. can withstand knocks and fluids without damage), so makes it ideal for use in the workshop / garage...
 

Adam.C

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Long Island Indicator

Go to the LI Indicator site linked above. These people are one of the recognized experts by the machinist world.

Good advice, tho to be fair, the machinists I know argue about the validity of some of LII statements. Obviously, they have a disdain for Chinese goods bordering on racism. In fact, they seem to detest any tool that isn't Swiss. They have no love for Starrett. And they seem to prize repairability above all else. They also recommend products they sell- no surprise there.

That said, I learned a lot on their site, appreciate it and patronize them. Good advice on many issues and I don't think you can get a bum steer. But they do tend to recommend expensive Swiss tools, absolutely trouncing all else. I have some HF quality tools that have served me well.
 

RM209

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Apr 17, 2009
Messages
892
Location
MD
The old garage sale scene seems to be the best place to find used stuff like this. At garage sales, and estate sales these items are being sold by people who don't know what they are. Ken.:dunno:

This. You can find some great deals on some of the best brands of micrometers and other precision measuring tools if you've got the patience to go to estate sales, and watch C-L.

RM209
 

Pudge87

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Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
154
Location
Spartanburg SC
I don't care if I get bashed on this, and I'm not even condoning this, but when building an engine a high dollar set of micrometers aren't really needed. What is needed is a good dial bore gauge. I don't care if the mics are off .010, if you measure your piston, then set your dial bore gauge to the mics, your going to be fine. This also holds true for bearings and journals.

Also, if your going to be building engines, don't forget a dial indicator with a magnetic base. My flavor of choice is a 1" travel indicator.
 
Last edited:

Pudge87

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Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
154
Location
Spartanburg SC
Enough with Harbor Freight guys. HF may be ok for somethings, but not this.

Check the wear limits for the vehicles you are interested in just to get a sense for what you need. I'm not an engine builder, so I can only guess they are looing for clearances in the neighborhood of .004 (.1mm) MAX.

To get a clearance you need to subtract 2 measurements, OD and ID, so realistically, you need to split your allowable accuracy between the 2 measurements.

Good mitutoyo digital calipers are only stated good to +/-.001". I don't think that's good enough. And this is in skilled hands. To get less than .001" accuracy you need a micrometer and a good one.

What you need is a digital bore gage. I would only get a mitutoyo as they are the best, most reliable digitals out there. Swiss digitals are ok. SPI/Fowler are sometimes Swiss, most times Chinese and simply not good enough. They will give you the wrong answer. I would search ebay until you find a decent bore gage. The alternative is not good.

The alternative is you could use telescoping gages. I recommend Starrett 579(self centering over the 229). You would probably need a 3-4" so S579D. You can find these on ebay for cheap. It's a dead simple tool, so you won't get a bad one. Just make sure the faces are clean. But these add time and inaccuracy that you have to account for with your mic.

For mics I recommend the industry standard Starrett 436. These have been around for 100 years, and are readily available second hand in good shape. Only trick is, you need a standard you can trust to set them to. It (and the mic) should be clean and you need to learn how to adjust your mic to take accurate readings. I recommend getting an inexpensive mic stand- especially for beginners. Brown and Sharpe and Lufkin are also to be recommended, but these are sometimes harder to find.

I recommend you buy a few miscellaneous gage blocks (any brand will do- just as long as they are clean) and practice measuring them. You will quickly find that you don't really know how to measure stuff. This is good to do with a digital caliper as well. You'd be surprised how much your technique effects the measurement.

You can do good work with simple, high quality tools. I doubt new cheap tools will suffice for this. For measurements of +/-.001", I think you can get away with harbor freight etc.

Example- I calibrated my HF dig calipers. They are really good. Once you learn the proper technique, you can read within .001". But certain spots in the 6" range are just plain off by .0005 or more. My calipers read small by .001" at 2" but 3" and 1" are good. That's what you get with cheap measuring tools. They could be okay, or could be okay in spots. But not good enough for tight tolerances.

Tell me why I couldn't build an engine with HF mics? Not what I use, but tell me why I couldn't....
 
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