Home Inspectors

[pmiranda]

I didn't want to drag the thread about double-tapped breakers too far off topic, but I did want to say that I have no problem with GOOD inspectors.
So far, I've had one good inspector, and a couple decent ones. It's sad that there are bad ones out there, and maybe they need their trade organization to raise the bar a bit.

Now some stories if you're bored...

The last guy we used buying this house was good. Yeah, he wrote up a ton of stuff but made sure to note what really mattered (the leaking master bath shower pan!) from what was just leverage (no GFI on an outlet in the back of the garage). He spent a long time going through everything you could get to, and found a few things I probably wouldn't have found on my own in the amount of time it would take me to earn the $400 he charged.
In the end, it saved us over $10K and was well worth it, probably because he used to work in the trades himself before he started doing this in semi-retirement. I did have to hear alot of stories about common bad building practices, but everyone in the trades seems to love sharing them so I've gotten used to it.

As a seller, I don't really want to see the inspection report, since once I know there's a problem, I'd have to disclose it to any other buyers or address it.
What's sad is the guy who inspected the last house (working for the buyer, not us) we sold didn't say anything about a couple things I thought might have been of interest, but the buyer asked for a new AC (just inspected by our own guy and in perfect working order, just older) and GFIs in places where they already existed (bathrooms, kitchen, bar) or weren't required by code when the house was built (garage).
I labeled all the GFI outlets and politely declined to do anything about the other stuff.

 

[PAToyota]

It is a murky field - to say the best.

"Home Inspectors" run the gammut of people who went through a few days of "training" and have a checklist to go through to people retired from the construction trades with decades of experience. The former often fixate on the things that they think they understand and miss more serious things that they haven't quite wrapped their minds around. The latter can be good, but again, depends on what their history is and how broad their knowledge is. They can know some things very well and detailed but not be up to date on the latest codes and construction methods and give you a big hassle over something completely legal and allowable but that they aren't familiar with.

Another issue can be that home inspectors can get referrals from the real estate agents. Therefore, if they become known for killing too many deals they're not going to be getting the business. So they can tend to not look as deeply as they should...

Although I know it often is not as easy to accomplish as it is to say, but my personal preference is to get a few pros in to check things out. I think it is standard anymore that you have to have a termite inspection done. Most areas have an inspection agency for electrical work, pay them to go over a house as though it were going for a final inspection after construction. Bring in a plumbing, heating, and a/c guy to go over the systems in the house. Have an architect or engineer come out to give an overall opinion of the house as far as structure, roofing, flashing, windows, etc. Looking through the phonebook for "Joe Smith, Architect" or "Joe Smith, AIA" or "Bob Jones, PE" will find you the smaller offices and likely they'll be willing to hire out on an hourly rate.

Going this route will run you more than the "one stop home inspector" route, but as PMiranda pointed out it could save you thousands of dollars and possible headaches in the long run. Also, this isn't something you'd do with every house you look at. And perhaps you do it just for certain areas - things with the electrical just don't seem right and you want a more in-depth opinion and hire an electrical inspector or something like that.

 

[billspit]

A coworker of mine sold a home recently. The home inspector tore him a new one. It was touchy at first because it was an FHA loan, but it worked out in the long run. Guess who the suy hired to inspect his new home. Same inspector. He found almost nothing wrong with the new house.

 

[pmiranda]

Good point about specialists... Both this house and the one before it we ended up bringing in more guys after the general inspector. It's not always bad news... on our first house, we saw a crack in the foundation, but got a structural engineer in that found it was perfectly stable. Never had the slightest problem with it shifting or settling, it was just cracked.

For a few laughs, just saw this today...
Home Inspection Nightmares

 

[jay50]

Depressed home sales are forcing sellers to take it up the backside after getting home inspection reports. In the past when the market was hot, sellers could just decline to make the repairs and wait for someone to buy the house "as is" within a couple of hours. Not anymore. Friend of mine bought a house 1 month ago in VA, just outside of DC in a real nice neighborhood. Home inspector found over $4000 in repairs that the seller gladly repaired. Also, seller had done a $50,000 remodel on the kitchen/living area a few years ago but had to eat that expenditure since the house was appraised $100,000 less that what it would have sold for just 18 months ago. Never thought that area would have been affected by the housing slump since most owners are "feeding at the gov'ment slop trough".....

 

[Terry Kennedy]

Good point about specialists... Both this house and the one before it we ended up bringing in more guys after the general inspector.

One thing about specialists (contractors) - home inspectors are supposed to not have a vested interest when finding issues (none of the "this is bad but if you call my cousin Joe he can fix it for cheap"). Contractors have no such restriction.

I bought my current house in 1996. At that point, the house was 60 years old and had been through many owners and more tenants (it is a multi-family). In the 12 years since I've been here, I've only had one problem that the home inspector didn't find during the pre-purchase inspection. That was a leaking (gushing, actually) water service line out in the street. The city filled in the sinkhole and re-paved the street in the early 90's, so the problem definitely pre-dated the purchase. I did replace the electric panels (they were Federal Pacific) and the roof, and had an asbestos abatement done on the heating lines.

I sold my Dad's house in 2005 after he passed away. While I sold it "as is" (even down to the contents), the buyer's inspector "found" two things - an underground fuel oil tank (which had never been filled as he insisted the house be heated with gas when he bought it in 1966) and a crack and shifting of the foundation wall. Fortunately, I had a copy of the inspection from when he switched to a reverse mortgage a few years earlier, which included a structural engineer's opinion that the problem was cosmetic only.

 

[PAToyota]

One thing about specialists (contractors) -

You'll notice that both PMiranda and I mentioned inspectors, engineers, and architects and not contractors - although I did mention using an HVAC guy. But you might want to re-read my comment about the link between home inspectors and real estate agents if you think they are completely impartial.

 

[rlk]

It is a murky field - to say the best.

"Home Inspectors" run the gammut of people who went through a few days of "training" and have a checklist to go through to people retired from the construction trades with decades of experience. The former often fixate on the things that they think they understand and miss more serious things that they haven't quite wrapped their minds around. The latter can be good, but again, depends on what their history is and how broad their knowledge is. They can know some things very well and detailed but not be up to date on the latest codes and construction methods and give you a big hassle over something completely legal and allowable but that they aren't familiar with.

As a licensed home inspector, let me tell you the requirements to get a license in North Carolina. In order to sit for the licensing test, you must be either a licensed general contractor; an engineer; or an architect. Once you prove your credentials, you can take the 4 hour test to become a home inspector. In order to renew your license each year, you must take 12 hours of continuing education. Only classes approved by the NC Licensure Board count towards fulfilling your education requirements.

Another issue can be that home inspectors can get referrals from the real estate agents. Therefore, if they become known for killing too many deals they're not going to be getting the business. So they can tend to not look as deeply as they should...

I hear this argument all the time, but in my 10 years as a home inspector, I have never had a Realtor to ask me to go soft on a house, or to cover up a problem. Should it ever come out that a Realtor asked a home inspector to do this, the Realtor is exposed to loosing their license. I would file a complaint against any realtor who did this, as would most of the home inspectors I know. We are doing the home inspection at the request of the buyer, not at the request of the Realtor.

Although I know it often is not as easy to accomplish as it is to say, but my personal preference is to get a few pros in to check things out. I think it is standard anymore that you have to have a termite inspection done. Most areas have an inspection agency for electrical work, pay them to go over a house as though it were going for a final inspection after construction. Bring in a plumbing, heating, and a/c guy to go over the systems in the house. Have an architect or engineer come out to give an overall opinion of the house as far as structure, roofing, flashing, windows, etc. Looking through the phonebook for "Joe Smith, Architect" or "Joe Smith, AIA" or "Bob Jones, PE" will find you the smaller offices and likely they'll be willing to hire out on an hourly rate.

Going this route will run you more than the "one stop home inspector" route, but as PMiranda pointed out it could save you thousands of dollars and possible headaches in the long run. Also, this isn't something you'd do with every house you look at. And perhaps you do it just for certain areas - things with the electrical just don't seem right and you want a more in-depth opinion and hire an electrical inspector or something like that.

PAToyota, have you ever done this, or priced doing it? I would be interested in knowing how much more this would cost vs using a home inspector. Being a home inspector myself for the last 10 years, I think the price of bringing in all these trades will cost into the thousands of dollars vs the $300 to $400 a home inspector charges for a typical home.

Also, trying to bring in all these different trades would be a scheduling nightmare, as most home purchase contracts that I am familiar with gives the buyer 10 business days to complete ALL the inspections. (The only exception that I am aware of is the termite inspection, and usually the lending institution requires they be done within 30 - 60 days of the closing.)

You must also factor in the inconvenience to the seller. Many times the seller will not want to be interrupted that many times while a different trade tramps through their house.

Bob

 

[Willy Victor]

Now that we have home inspectors covered, has anyone had any dealings with job safety inspectors?


Willy

 

[PAToyota]

RLK: Not all states have the regulations that NC apparently has. I applaud them for the continuing education and licensing requirements. Unfortunately, having reviewed a number of home inspection reports through the years the disclaimers around here about what they are not responsible for is often more than the information that they actually provide.

And I have been involved in a few inspections as I described - often a combination of architect, MEP technician, and roofer. If the architect has questions about the structure, a structural engineer is called in. If the MEP guy turns up anything questionable on the electric then we bring in an electrical inspector. Pricing is usually in the $600 to $1000 range with another $500 ($1100 to $1500 total) if all the "experts" need to be called in. Scheduling is all done for one day with the "team" being brought in together.