Home Made Dryer Buddy

[Baldewin]

I would like to add a heat pump water heater in lieu of my gas unit which is on its last leg. The problem is my main panel (200amp) is maxed out. I see they sell a dryer buddy for EV's so they can share the dryer circuit and wondering if I made one would it be in theory code compliant and or have other issue that I'm not aware of.

My general thought is to split the power between the WH and a EV Charger. The split would be housed in a NEMA box, the WH would be directly fed and the EV side would go to a NC contact first then to the EV charger. I would then use a current switch to sense WH draw that would then switch open the relay that is being used for EV charging. This would be a hard wired type application and not corded like a true dryer buddy.

 

[mike93lx]

Maxed out as in full of breakers or actual draw? Hard to believe on the latter unless there is something unique going on. What about tandems?

I'd do a sub before all that contactor and custom wiring stuff

 

[mm08822]

Maxed out as in full of breakers or actual draw? Hard to believe on the latter unless there is something unique going on. What about tandems?

I'd do a sub before all that contactor and custom wiring stuff

Agreed, keep it simple. Get a sub-panel so you have more breaker space. Wire loads independant of each other.

 

[Baldewin]

Maxed in both breakers and capacity. All power needs are met with the exception of this possible up grade. There a lot of cost in installing a sub panel and not nearly the cost of interrupting a circuit, installing a box, relay and a current switch is why I ask.

 

[sparky 1971]

Do what you want, but I am a firm believer in keeping it simple. In the grand scheme of things, twin breakers or a sub panel are cheap and fairly fool proof.

 

[sparky 1971]

Maxed in both breakers and capacity. All power needs are met with the exception of this possible up grade. There a lot of cost in installing a sub panel and not nearly the cost of interrupting a circuit, installing a box, relay and a current switch is why I ask.

I have a hard time accepting that you are maxed out capacity wise. 200 amps is a lot of power, especially residential wise. Unless there is an electric furnace. A do it yourself sub panel would cost less than $200.00.

 

[mm08822]

If you're maxed out ampacity wise, you now want to add an electric WH and an EVS? What is your current demand on the service? How do you know that?
If you're maxed out for space now, how are you going to power the WH?

Dryer buddies (NeoCharge Smart Splitter) is a factory complete unit and you want to hack it up? Loosing the UL listing and any warranty?

All pictures on the website show the laundry in the garage. So there are no cords needed to pass through walls or doorways (a serious no-no). Not everyone's laundry (or HW heater in your case) is in the garage. How would you connect to the charger?

What size EVS are you planning to connect?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Maxed in both breakers and capacity. All power needs are met with the exception of this possible up grade. There a lot of cost in installing a sub panel and not nearly the cost of interrupting a circuit, installing a box, relay and a current switch is why I ask.

How did you determine the service was at capacity? Did you do a load calc? If not then there was no way for you to determine the service is at capacity.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you're maxed out ampacity wise, you now want to add an electric WH and an EVS? What is your current demand on the service? How do you know that?
If you're maxed out for space now, how are you going to power the WH?

Dryer buddies (NeoCharge Smart Splitter) is a factory complete unit and you want to hack it up? Loosing the UL listing and any warranty?

All pictures on the website show the laundry in the garage. So there are no cords needed to pass through walls or doorways (a serious no-no). Not everyone's laundry (or HW heater in your case) is in the garage. How would you connect to the charger?

What size EVS are you planning to connect?

The way i read his post he wants to cobble up his own dryer buddy instead of buying one.

 

[sparky 1971]

How did you determine the service was at capacity? Did you do a load calc? If not then there was no way for you to determine the service is at capacity.

Isn't the easiest way to add up the breakers?

 

[Baldewin]

The way i read his post he wants to cobble up his own dryer buddy instead of buying one.

You sir are 100% correct, that is my only interest here.

 

[mm08822]

The way i read his post he wants to cobble up his own dryer buddy instead of buying one.

As says the title of the thread!!

 

[mike93lx]

I know it's easy to want to ignore everyone that doesn't want to just go along with your plans, but there are multiple master electricians replying to this thread. I'd strongly recommend having the conversation around understanding the circumstances before you just dig your heels in

 

[Baldewin]

Everything that has been said I've already thought about and have moved on from prior to posting this thread. I'm looking to build a device similar to a dryer buddy and am looking for help and insight into that. If you can help great, if you can't that's ok to.

 

[sparky 1971]

Everything that has been said I've already thought about and have moved on from prior to posting this thread. I'm looking to build a device similar to a dryer buddy and am looking for help and insight into that. If you can help great, if you can't that's ok to.

You asked two questions.

I would like to add a heat pump water heater in lieu of my gas unit which is on its last leg. The problem is my main panel (200amp) is maxed out. I see they sell a dryer buddy for EV's so they can share the dryer circuit and wondering if I made one would it be in theory code compliant

Nope. if you want to be code compliant, you will have to make your invention and take it to a testing lab such as UL. If you can get it listed your off to a good start. Then install it and pass an inspection and you will be compliant. And you thought a sub panel was too expensive.

and or have other issue that I'm not aware of.

Most of the replies you don't like are stemming from this.

 

[dogdog]

what is a dryer buddy?

 

[dcg9381]

what is a dryer buddy?

A 240V splitter on an outlet that will only path electrical to one side of the splitter or the other, but not both.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

why not just get a DP single throw switch like a transfer switch for a generator?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Everything that has been said I've already thought about and have moved on from prior to posting this thread. I'm looking to build a device similar to a dryer buddy and am looking for help and insight into that. If you can help great, if you can't that's ok to.

as has been said, wont be code compliant without a listing from an NRTL- nationally recognized testing laboratory.... GLWT... costs a fortune...

 

[mike93lx]

Everything that has been said I've already thought about and have moved on from prior to posting this thread. I'm looking to build a device similar to a dryer buddy and am looking for help and insight into that. If you can help great, if you can't that's ok to.

Good luck. Hope you learn something and don't waste a lot of money or get hurt in the process

 

[alfredeneuman]

if you want to be code compliant, you will have to make your invention and take it to a testing lab such as UL.

Even if you use all listed components it will not be listed.
It's has to be tested as a unit.

 

[dogdog]

A 240V splitter on an outlet that will only path electrical to one side of the splitter or the other, but not both.

Oh ok, this comes to mind if I were to sit it. But seriously I have a 100amp of that installed in my house when I moved in. Even comes with 100 amp fuse too. Not exactly mine have a housing


AXLIZER Double Pole Double Throw Electrical Switch, Knife Switch, Electricity Experimental Equipment, Teaching Instrument Used to Disconnect Two Simultaneous Electrical Connections https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RHZF4FM?ref_=cm_sw_r_apin_dp_DTS1FM1HW31T30JWBNNN

 

[dcg9381]

Oh ok, this comes to mind if I were to sit it. But seriously I have a 100amp of that installed in my house when I moved in. Even comes with 100 amp fuse too. Not exactly mine have a housing

You mean this assuming I am processing that sentance correctly.
That's for DC. And quoting it's use "These are low voltage, low current switches for low voltage DC power supply".
I think my sarcasm detector may be off for the evening... you've got 11k posts and haven't killed yourself yet, so you can't be serious.

 

[American Locomotive]

So you want to get a NEMA box, put in current transformers, control logic, and a a big relay/contactor, because that would be cheaper than a sub panel?

You literally just need a 4-position sub panel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...r-with-Cover-Ground-Bar-HOM48L125GC/100160907

The whole project could be done for like $100.

 

[dogdog]

You mean this assuming I am processing that sentance correctly.
That's for DC. And quoting it's use "These are low voltage, low current switches for low voltage DC power supply".
I think my sarcasm detector may be off for the evening... you've got 11k posts and haven't killed yourself yet, so you can't be serious.

Good thing I am a horder still save that switch. Will post a pic when I get to the garage tomorrow lol.

What is ac switch and dc switch even means, dunno. But it logically works. Heck if you are good at electromatrobics you can do it with 4 relays.

 

[The Cobbler]

Do what you want, but I am a firm believer in keeping it simple. In the grand scheme of things, twin breakers or a sub panel are cheap and fairly fool proof.

and easily diagnosed if there's issues

 

[PugetDude]

 

[Max]

I would like to add a heat pump water heater in lieu of my gas unit which is on its last leg. The problem is my main panel (200amp) is maxed out. I see they sell a dryer buddy for EV's so they can share the dryer circuit and wondering if I made one would it be in theory code compliant and or have other issue that I'm not aware of.

My general thought is to split the power between the WH and a EV Charger. The split would be housed in a NEMA box, the WH would be directly fed and the EV side would go to a NC contact first then to the EV charger. I would then use a current switch to sense WH draw that would then switch open the relay that is being used for EV charging. This would be a hard wired type application and not corded like a true dryer buddy.

Since you are talking about a hardwired solution and not corded I believe that you’re covered by the NEC and not by any UL standards. If that’s wrong someone please let me know.

Bluntly, your proposed design is weak. If your current switch or relay fail then you’d be energizing both your WH and EV at the same time. Not good.

I agree with the others that a cheap and simple subpanel is the way to go.

If you are stuck on your idea, a much better design would be a two contact relay with NO and NC contacts. That way if the current sense or the relay fails only one device is energized. I have no idea as to what the NEC would say about such a setup so the electricians would have to comment.

 

[sparky 1971]

What were you doing snooping around in my back yard? BTW, I fixed that over a month ago. I put some rubber bands around the clamps so they fit tighter and don't fall off as easily.

 

[dogdog]

You mean this assuming I am processing that sentance correctly.
That's for DC. And quoting it's use "These are low voltage, low current switches for low voltage DC power supply".
I think my sarcasm detector may be off for the evening... you've got 11k posts and haven't killed yourself yet, so you can't be serious.

Good thing I am a horder still save that switch. Will post a pic when I get to the garage tomorrow lol.

What is ac switch and dc switch even means, dunno. But it logically works. Heck if you are good at electromatrobics you can do it with 4 relays.

I believe this is what I have except this one does not have fused inside and it's 200AMP or something.... anyways not sure why the previous owner installed that... Do you think it would work even thought it says 100AMP....

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.DT223URH-N.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008KNXJXE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Specification Met UL Listed

 

[sparky 1971]

Since you are talking about a hardwired solution and not corded I believe that you’re covered by the NEC and not by any UL standards. If that’s wrong someone please let me know.

NEC 90.7 states that everything installed is supposed to be listed.

90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety​

For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval where the record is made generally available through promulgation by organizations properly equipped and qualified for experimental testing, inspections of the run of goods at factories, and service-value determination through field inspections. This avoids the necessity for repetition of examinations by different examiners, frequently with inadequate facilities for such work, and the confusion that would result from conflicting reports on the suitability of devices and materials examined for a given purpose.
It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory that is recognized as having the facilities described in the preceding paragraph and that requires suitability for installation in accordance with this Code. Suitability shall be determined by application of requirements that are compatible with this Code.
Informational Note No. 1: See 110.3 for guidance on safety examinations.
Informational Note No. 2: See Article 100 for definitions of Listed and Reconditioned.
Informational Note No. 3: See Informative Annex A for a list of product safety standards that are compatible with this Code.

Bluntly, your proposed design is weak. If your current switch or relay fail then you’d be energizing both your WH and EV at the same time. Not good.

The worst I can think of is the breaker might trip. The cold shower wouldn't be good.

I agree with the others that a cheap and simple subpanel is the way to go.

If you are stuck on your idea, a much better design would be a two contact relay with NO and NC contacts. That way if the current sense or the relay fails only one device is energized. I have no idea as to what the NEC would say about such a setup so the electricians would have to comment

 

[Max]

NEC 90.7 states that everything installed is supposed to be listed.

90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety​

For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval where the record is made generally available through promulgation by organizations properly equipped and qualified for experimental testing, inspections of the run of goods at factories, and service-value determination through field inspections. This avoids the necessity for repetition of examinations by different examiners, frequently with inadequate facilities for such work, and the confusion that would result from conflicting reports on the suitability of devices and materials examined for a given purpose.
It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory that is recognized as having the facilities described in the preceding paragraph and that requires suitability for installation in accordance with this Code. Suitability shall be determined by application of requirements that are compatible with this Code.
Informational Note No. 1: See 110.3 for guidance on safety examinations.
Informational Note No. 2: See Article 100 for definitions of Listed and Reconditioned.
Informational Note No. 3: See Informative Annex A for a list of product safety standards that are compatible with this Code.

Everything installed is supposed to be listed.

Thanks for the reference. There must be listed relays though, no? And if you use a listed box/wire/etc. ? I’m trying to wrap my head around how things like hardwired industrial controls are done. Or even something that comes up here a lot, where a (for example) a 5 HP compressor is being switched on/off by a relay and a much lower current rated switch.

 

[sparky 1971]

Thanks for the reference. There must be listed relays though, no? And if you use a listed box/wire/etc. ? I’m trying to wrap my head around how things like hardwired industrial controls are done. Or even something that comes up here a lot, where a (for example) a 5 HP compressor is being switched on/off by a relay and a much lower current rated switch.

The whole contraption would have to be listed as a unit. Things get jerry rigged all the time in the field and they work just fine, but they aren't officially code compliant without a listing.

 

[Max]

The whole contraption would have to be listed as a unit. Things get jerry rigged all the time in the field and they work just fine, but they aren't officially code compliant without a listing.

Ok, thank you. I’ll search old threads for the 5 HP solution.

 

[sparky 1971]

Ok, thank you. I’ll search old threads for the 5 HP solution.

There are all kinds of solutions to problems, whether real or imagined. I've done a lot of them. The specific topic here is code compliancy, which is the question that was asked.

 

[Max]

The worst I can think of is the breaker might trip. The cold shower wouldn't be good.

I’m not sure about the OP’s level of knowledge. So if he wired things up with wire rated for just a single load, then depending on what breaker he did or didn’t have he could burn the wire…