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home made socket

marineengineer

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I have made a socket for turning the pin on a shackle last year. We use it on an impact gun. I made it by welding plate to a 3 inch extension and using a piece of schedule 80 pipe as a sleeve. The one that i made last ear has been used and is working great, i have been asked to make a few more. The customer wants me to see if i can make them like an impact socket and harden them because the one made last year is peening over. Does anyone have any suggestion about how to harden them cheaply or at home with successful results. Id post pictures but i don't have any right now. if people want i will take some photos as i make it to show the process. Im a student in college and will be doing this in the next few weeks.
 
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cryan

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I would open a shackle with a Marlin Spike or Shackle key. If I was making a socket I would run one up on a milling machine out of billet and have it hardened and more importantly tempered. Perhaps a local machine shop could help. I wouldn't personally use an impact gun on a welded plate as it could come apart. You shouldn't be driving home a shackle pin with an impact wrench. Standard procedure should be to turn it home by hand then back an eighth of a turn so it does not jam. Threads should be kept clean and greased(personal preference is copaslip)
The other type of shackle with a cotter pin should be sealed with lead. also does not require an impact gun.
I have pulled up moorings with shackles which have been on the bottom for a decade and either they were greased pre-use and they came apart or they were so corroded we just cut them with gas.
 

cryan

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I should say you can harden them with oxy acetylene. Take it to orange then quench. To temper take to back up to cherry red then let cool slowly - I think, but I'm sure others can confirm or tell you another way. When heating do it slowly and evenly.
 
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marineengineer

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The shackles are used for mooring in the harbor that freezes they are pulled each year and the customer does not grease them. i don't know why not but that's his choice. He uses the impact gun to remove the shackles not to tighten. he pulls and services about 5000 moorings a year the impact gun is just for speed, the gun never usually hammers the pipe slides over the welded plate and is a press fit so even if the welds did split it wouldn't come flying apart. I was thinking to machine one out of billet for the next attempt at making it on a milling machine and lathe.
 
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marineengineer

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i definitely will harden and temper it i could not find a machine shop that did that around here id there a type of steel that you would suggest to make it similar to an impact socket i could just use carbide cutters to machine it with
 

cryan

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A machined socket would certainly be my choice. It would make a nice little project. As I said before it can be hardened and tempered with Oxy Acetylene. Perhaps a chemical blackening would protect it nicely. But tell him to Copper grease everything. It will save him a lot of trouble.

I'm not sure what kind of steel is best.
 
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marineengineer

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i said spray copper never seize i think locktight makes it that would be easy and help a lot. i was thinking maybe to blue it like a gun or use some type of stainless shafting to make it rust resistant because it would be used in salt water. but still i the fabrication/ machining would be the easy part the metallurgy is what is holding me up. i might make a billet one and one that i fabricate similar to the last one i made and see how they react
 

chris142

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Could you buy some cheap impact sockets harbor freight and cut the ends off and use that? Weld your stuff on the harbor freight socket that way you have the impact on the end
 

rlitman

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you can harden them with oxy acetylene. Take it to orange then quench. To temper take to back up to cherry red then let cool slowly

That depends on the metal he used, but in general that won't work.

Anyway, if he started with mild steel, it won't harden, so this is a waste of time.

My suggestion would be to hit the flea market or pawn shop, and pick up some broken wrenches. That steel is perfect as a starting point.
 
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marineengineer

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it peens on the non drive end after repeated use. that's the part that needs to be hardened im trying to get information on how to harden that end ill get some pictures up hopefully today to show what i mean
 

cryan

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cryan

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That depends on the metal he used, but in general that won't work.

Anyway, if he started with mild steel, it won't harden, so this is a waste of time.

My suggestion would be to hit the flea market or pawn shop, and pick up some broken wrenches. That steel is perfect as a starting point.


Thats why I used the disclaimer, "I think" and said that others would be more expert.
 

rlitman

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Thats why I used the disclaimer, "I think" and said that others would be more expert.

I understand.

In a mild steel, no amount of heat treatment will make a real difference. That's the kind of metal you probably have, and that's why it is smushing.

In a hardenable steel (say you borrowed metal from a junk leaf spring), you can heat it until cherry red (technically beyond the Curie point, when the metal is no longer attracted to a magnet), and then quench it (oil quench for higher carbon steels, water for lower, air for some alloys too; you really need to know what you're working with).
That will get you to a fully hardened (and brittle state).

Tempering requires heating tool steel until the surface turns a "straw" color (just past "champagne", and before "blue"). That will leave you in the toughest state. The "blue" line is too soft for a screwdriver tip (but is good for the shank). In that first page you linked, I would gently heat the screwdriver shank with an air-fuel torch (oxy-fuel is WAY too hot for tempering), and watch the blue line get to within 1/8" of the screwdriver tip.
In fact, I needed a hook to pull some seals from my car the other weekend, and rather than go out and buy a puller, I grabbed a junk screwdriver from the drawer, got out the torch, and made my own. With the proper hardening, it is now one of my favorite tools.

Once it hits a dull red, just about all of the hardening is gone in most steels (with the exception of things like HSS, but that's not really relevant here). That's way too far.

As for case hardening, this is fine to resist abrasion or sawing (like on a lock shackle), but not so great on a tool. I would expect that the hard surface will form micro cracks that will make the whole tool more likely to break.

What you need to do, is start with good steel. Let's see a picture of what you made, because I'm having a hard time picturing it. Then we can make some suggestions for what to use as a starting point. Machining it from billet seems awfully difficult.
 
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marineengineer

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ok so hes as good as i can do right now i did a quick cad drawing i hope this gives you an idea of what im making. I think right now im going to make one out of a billet of shafting material and then another weld up one using an extension and leaf spring material. I think then i will try to harden and temper them both. i will try to get a picture up today but the customer uses it daily and i dont personally have a picture of it. The last one turned out as well as expected for a prototype. I think the key is to keep the design structurally strong because of dimensions and fabrication techniques and then just use the heat treatment to make it even better and more profesional
 

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marineengineer

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the original prototype was mild steel it was modified 3 times and the design is what they want they wanted to do it on the cheap until the design was done and proven now the task is to just make it better and more durable.
 
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marineengineer

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In the drawing the slotted end is where the shackle tab goes
( part with the hole in it) then the other end is a 1/2 in socket fitting for the impact gun
 

Joe B.

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For that design, I would consider purchasing a premium brand impact socket and then putting a couple of shims of some kind to fill in the hex leaving just the shape you need.
 

rlitman

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That's what I was thinking. If you need a perfect rectangle, then I'd start with a 1" hex impact socket, and make two triangular shims. The shims could actually be glued in place, they just need to be made from decent steel, and fit well.

If you can get away with something less rectangular (it'll still work just fine), here's something even easier.
Get a 1" 8 point impact socket. Then your shims can be flat rectangles (no bevel to machine). The short side of the recess will have small triangular hollows sticking out, and there will be a triangular hollow space under the middle of each shim, but that really won't affect the strength any.

Starting with a socket, you can go with as hard tool steel as you want to. Since the softer impact socket body will have plenty of strength to handle the hoop stress, your shims just need to resist smushing. If I was going with tiny rectangles, I'd figure out the dimensions, and get my steel guy to cut me the pieces in AR500 (that stuff is murder to machine yourself, and almost impossible to grind).

I would glue the shims in place, and resist the temptation to weld or braze. That heat will kill the socket's temper. OR, possibly, I'd drill out the socket wall at the very middle of the shim, and plug weld it with TIG. Something that keeps the heat away from the front of the socket where it needs to be hardest.
 
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KSB

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That's what I was thinking. If you need a perfect rectangle, then I'd start with a 1" hex impact socket, and make two triangular shims. The shims could actually be glued in place, they just need to be made from decent steel, and fit well.

If you can get away with something less rectangular (it'll still work just fine), here's something even easier.
Get a 1" 8 point impact socket. Then your shims can be flat rectangles (no bevel to machine). The short side of the recess will have small triangular hollows sticking out, and there will be a triangular hollow space under the middle of each shim, but that really won't affect the strength any.

Starting with a socket, you can go with as hard tool steel as you want to. Since the softer impact socket body will have plenty of strength to handle the hoop stress, your shims just need to resist smushing. If I was going with tiny rectangles, I'd figure out the dimensions, and get my steel guy to cut me the pieces in AR500 (that stuff is murder to machine yourself, and almost impossible to grind).

I would glue the shims in place, and resist the temptation to weld or braze. That heat will kill the socket's temper. OR, possibly, I'd drill out the socket wall at the very middle of the shim, and plug weld it with TIG. Something that keeps the heat away from the front of the socket where it needs to be hardest.

Proto and Gray Tools have a double square socket that would fit those requirements.
 

Outlawmws

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Ditto on the make an Impact socket into what you want. The tool steel "engineering" is done.

Tempering steels is tricky, and for an impact tools you want tough, not hard and brittle. if you mess it up and it IS brittle it will let you no an a messy way...
 

Provincial

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For impact socket steel, check out this thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1624.html

Chrome-moly steel, heat treated so it is ductile but not brittle. I'm guessing that around 125,000 psi tensile would be about right.

Since a good grade impact socket would most likely be made from this material, you would be compatible for heat treating. A really good welding shop may be able to weld the pieces together without the need for heat treating if using the right technique and filler metal, but I'm not able to give advice on that. I only know that shops have been able to weld things without heat (or re-heat) treating that I was sure would need heat treatment.
 

rlitman

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With the idea of putting shims into an impact socket, the weld doesn't have to hold everything together, just keep the shims from falling out.
I still think adhesive might work, but it also might fall apart from the impacting.

That's why I was thinking of a plug weld. It keeps the heat affected zone away from the parts of the shim that need the best heat treatment.
 
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marineengineer

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Ok so the glueing shims hasnt worked well at all we have tried im going to try to convince him on the shims and tig weld i think if its tig welded in spots far back we wont lose the heat treat i have acesss to any tool imaginable and am going to try to do itall myself just because i want thank you for all the tips n ideas keep them coming
 

cryan

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Again my vote is for a billet of material and a lathe/mill. Every time you weld an impact socket your changing the metulurgy with the heat. Plus messing about with experiments. You know what you want, you have access to machine tools so I would go ahead and design/manufacture it.
 
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marineengineer

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Ok so thanks for the help im going to het some impact sockets n drill them then tap my shims then use a cap screw to hold them in that way no welding n the guy can have mild steel shims while he orders the steel that he wants for the shims then i will tig wrld them in i think a few small welds wont hirt the metalurology too much. I might try to make one out of billet but i dont have the time he wants them soon
 

rlitman

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Not a bad idea. A combination of a cap screw and plain liquid epoxy may well hold up fine to the impact. I'd avoid any thick or brittle adhesive (CA, anerobic adhesives, JB Weld, etc).
 

jrlp

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With the advent of CHEAP accurate IR temp guns, it really takes most of the skill out of tempering metals... With a good chart it's child's play.

I've made quite a few sockets for different things, including shackle pins.. but I make most of my living tigging and have quite a bit chro-mo experience.

IR temp guns make things very easy to do.. even differential hardening which 100 years ago required you to be a master blacksmith with decades under your belt.

Now you can sit at your table with a beer in one hand, torch in the other and zap your piece with an ir temp gun you bought at sears for $39.99 and get a 100% success rate...
 

pilotman81

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If you have access to any tools/machines you would need to manufacture the socket, why screw around with bastardizing someone else's design? If these sockets are going to be used as much as you say, you may want to have more than 1 anyway. My experience with modified sockets has been that they may work in a pinch, but when they fail it is always spectacular and it usually results in a broken part or injured person. Do the machine work and have something that you know is right and will work the best. Just my $.02
 
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