Home Renovation Plans-Comments Wanted

[WordMan]

Hey there guys and gals. A couple years ago, we bought a fixer-upper in Harriman, TN. It has a nice, 24'X28' detached garage, and an attached carport that's around 28'X30' or so that I plan on closing in and making a garage.

Here is the base house I have to work with. It's 3 bedroom with around 2,500sqft under roof, but was a 2 bedroom that someone has added a "master bedroom suite" to. The location is perfect, on 5-1/2 acres.

Here is the base house. The thick wall near the master bedroom was originally an outside wall, and is brick.

Here is the current version of how I think I'd like to rearrange the guts:

I'm looking for comments, criticisms, and ideas. I only want to do all this work once!

 

[yeldogt]

You must like doors !

A powder room off a living room like that is not a good idea .... same with double doors off a bedroom into the living room ... it not a throne room?

what's that crazy wrap around space from the garage?

Beds up against windows?

Two sets of doors to the deck ?

Get some professional help .... space planing is an art

 

[WordMan]

You must like doors !

A powder room off a living room like that is not a good idea .... same with double doors off a bedroom into the living room ... it not a throne room?

The double doors into the living room aren't set in stone. As for the powder room, there just isn't much of a place to put the thing.

what's that crazy wrap around space from the garage?

It's contending with existing walls, specifically that big *** brick wall.

Beds up against windows?

Yeah, kind of common, actually. Especially in homes like mine where the windows are set fairly high.

Two sets of doors to the deck ?

Absolutely! The French doors allow for 1) a view of the lake, and 2) the ability to open them onto the big screened in porch for airflow.

Get some professional help .... space planing is an art

Might just do that, but without demolishing the house, I'm not sure what else can be done.

 

[yeldogt]

Why do the bed like that in the other room if the lake is so important ? Open it up with windows and put the bed in the back?

Doors create pathways that must be open -- and the opening doors much be able to swing ... that takes up a lot of porch space. What's that space over in the living room .. a closet ?

IMO -- you are trying to do too much in the kitchen area for the space and the living room area becomes off center due to the pathways

The master bath is weird .. waste of space. Unworkable closet.

Are there kids? I never build in bathtubs any more if space is tight ....

 

[That Guy Scott]

Get some professional help .... space planing is an art

I agree with this. This is what we call a “built mores”. Most all of these look like it was added on to.
I finished building my house last year. My wife and I thought we had a good plan, we took it to an architect, and it vaguely resembles what our initial plan was. He was able to save us money by designing things differently.
Look into Panoramic door company instead of the French doors too. We love ours.
http://www.panoramicdoors.com/

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Your original (or existing) plan is not available-

Makes it hard to know what is actually moving/removing or otherwise. One of the worse things about ranch style homes is plumbing and HVAC- everything is stretched from one end to the other. Anytime you can put plumbing back-to-back you save literally hundred of dollars. Also; with major types of reno's like this requires major updates as to codes. When you mentioned the windows- those will definitely have to go because they don't meet egress code.

Since you said "lake view"- would it be save to assume that the house is on a basement or tall crawl? That will make adding load points easier.

 

[WordMan]

Your original (or existing) plan is not available-

Makes it hard to know what is actually moving/removing or otherwise. One of the worse things about ranch style homes is plumbing and HVAC- everything is stretched from one end to the other. Anytime you can put plumbing back-to-back you save literally hundred of dollars. Also; with major types of reno's like this requires major updates as to codes. When you mentioned the windows- those will definitely have to go because they don't meet egress code.

Since you said "lake view"- would it be save to assume that the house is on a basement or tall crawl? That will make adding load points easier.

I don't know why you're having trouble with the existing plan, it seems to work for me.

It's on a very short crawlspace. HVAC is in the attic.

The windows are large enough for egress, but they're not modern windows.

You can see what they look like here:

As you can see, it's not a very big house:

The view (We're planning on removing some of the tall trees to open it up some.

 

[WordMan]

I agree with this. This is what we call a “built mores”. Most all of these look like it was added on to.
I finished building my house last year. My wife and I thought we had a good plan, we took it to an architect, and it vaguely resembles what our initial plan was. He was able to save us money by designing things differently.
Look into Panoramic door company instead of the French doors too. We love ours.
http://www.panoramicdoors.com/

Love those doors, but I'm not sure the openings are big enough.

 

[WordMan]

Why do the bed like that in the other room if the lake is so important ? Open it up with windows and put the bed in the back?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Doors create pathways that must be open -- and the opening doors much be able to swing ... that takes up a lot of porch space. What's that space over in the living room .. a closet ?

The porch is over 10' deep, so the space for the swing out of the French doors is fine. I could put sliders or the "bi-fold" style doors someone else posted, though.

Yes, the small room off the living room is a closet/storage space. It's a bit of a leftover space, and we could use the storage.

IMO -- you are trying to do too much in the kitchen area for the space and the living room area becomes off center due to the pathways.

The biggest problem are the brick walls you that divide the dining area and living room from the back bedroom/hall/bath area.

The master bath is weird .. waste of space. Unworkable closet.

Why is the closet unworkable? It's 5'8" deep and 9'8" wide.

Are there kids? I never build in bathtubs any more if space is tight ....[/QUOTE]

The tub is something I've pondered a lot. Resale is probably my biggest reason for holding on to it. I understand that a home should have at least one tub or parents of young kids won't be interested.

Thanks for the input, you have me thinking!

 

[jetnow1]

Last time I checked the code was 5.7 square feet clear space for an egress window, with a minimum of 24 inches clear space in any one direction. In the case of double hung windows as shown if both panes can be removed without tools than the entire remaining
opening is what counts, If they cannot be removed without tools than the opening when the bottom of the window is pushed up is the available space. This assumes the window is no higher than 42 inches from the sill to the floor.
Remember the code is written with the idea that a fireman has to be able to get in the window with his gear on, not the need for you to get out.

 

[WordMan]

Last time I checked the code was 5.7 square feet clear space for an egress window, with a minimum of 24 inches clear space in any one direction. In the case of double hung windows as shown if both panes can be removed without tools than the entire remaining
opening is what counts, If they cannot be removed without tools than the opening when the bottom of the window is pushed up is the available space. This assumes the window is no higher than 42 inches from the sill to the floor.
Remember the code is written with the idea that a fireman has to be able to get in the window with his gear on, not the need for you to get out.

Good point. I will be replacing the windows with awning style windows like these:

I assume with these they firemen just break out the whole window?

They are higher than 42" though, but making the window itself taller (so it comes down the wall further) shouldn't be an issue.

The part of TN we're in is beautiful, and I want to be able to open the big windows and let the breeze through, with the blind in the window (between the panes) creating an awning effect.

 

[ard]

Get some professional help .... space planing is an art

Agree 1000%

A concrete guy was (semi) joking once when we were discussing plans for walkways, etc, and said "people should just plant grass seed on the entire property, then come back in two years and put in concrete where there are dirt paths.

Looking at the house plans and thinking about how humans will use that space is kind of anxiety inspiring....I mean it looks like their are effectively hallways that wrap around rooms....

 

[Rbreddin]

If you’re opening up walls, change as many of the closet doors to pocket doors as you can (m.bath, powder room, closet out by the deck.

Ignore the people criticizing beds in front of windows, it’s extremely common.


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[WordMan]

Agree 1000%

A concrete guy was (semi) joking once when we were discussing plans for walkways, etc, and said "people should just plant grass seed on the entire property, then come back in two years and put in concrete where there are dirt paths.

Looking at the house plans and thinking about how humans will use that space is kind of anxiety inspiring....I mean it looks like their are effectively hallways that wrap around rooms....

Again, there are literally brick walls that need to be worked around. I'm not in love with the hallways, either, but tearing the house down and starting over isn't in the cards.

 

[WordMan]

If you’re opening up walls, change as many of the closet doors to pocket doors as you can (m.bath, powder room, closet out by the deck.

Ignore the people criticizing beds in front of windows, it’s extremely common.


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That makes sense (the pocket door thing). I'm moving a lot of the interior walls, so that's not a problem.

Frankly, I'm not sold on the powder room. I don't really see a need for it in such a small home, even if the quest/2nd bathroom is around a corner.

 

[MattT]

They are higher than 42" though, but making the window itself taller (so it comes down the wall further) shouldn't be an issue.

Those windows are like that for a reason. To keep the summer sun out. So if you do go lower get the fancy glass that limits solar gain.

And if you're rural with V.F.D. coverage lets be realistic about firemen climbing thru' windows to save you. If you can't climb out yourself you'll likely be gone by the time they show up.

Regards your layout it certainly isn't ideal. But maybe it's the best you can do with what you've got to work with. One thing I'd definitely change is switch the sink and toilet in the off living room bath so you ain't looking at the toilet from the couch.

Beyond that you need to choose between what you want and "resale value". Personally I'm doing what I want and could care less if if costs me a few grand if I ever sell the place. And that includes keeping my dangerous, code violating, windows

 

[WordMan]

Those windows are like that for a reason. To keep the summer sun out. So if you do go lower get the fancy glass that limits solar gain.

And if you're rural with V.F.D. coverage lets be realistic about firemen climbing thru' windows to save you. If you can't climb out yourself you'll likely be gone by the time they show up.

Regards your layout it certainly isn't ideal. But maybe it's the best you can do with what you've got to work with. One thing I'd definitely change is switch the sink and toilet in the off living room bath so you ain't looking at the toilet from the couch.

Beyond that you need to choose between what you want and "resale value". Personally I'm doing what I want and could care less if if costs me a few grand if I ever sell the place. And that includes keeping my dangerous, code violating, windows

With the windows, they'll be low-E. Plus, I'm really liking the idea of the awning style windows with the blinds between the glass.

As to the powder room, I'm not sold on the idea anyway. Before it was a powder room, I had that little nook as a built in desk. Frankly, I like that better.

As for resale, I'm not looking to make this the hottest thing on the market, but I don't want to destroy resale value either. Then again, it's current layout isn't anything to write home about (and I'm not sure the added-on master bedroom meets code anyway). You have to go into the master bath to find a window as there are none in the master bedroom. That's another reason (besides the brick wall) for the odd layout of the two bedrooms, I need to make sure each has an egress window.

Thanks!

 

[HotrodHR]

I must be missing something here... the photo of the house shows the carport/garage on the right side of the the plans look like it's on the left. Looking at the plans, is the front the "top" of the plan or the or the bottom?

 

[yeldogt]

If you’re opening up walls, change as many of the closet doors to pocket doors as you can (m.bath, powder room, closet out by the deck.

Ignore the people criticizing beds in front of windows, it’s extremely common.


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I agree ... bad design is common.

 

[WordMan]

I must be missing something here... the photo of the house shows the carport/garage on the right side of the the plans look like it's on the left. Looking at the plans, is the front the "top" of the plan or the or the bottom?

The front of the house is the top on the plans.

 

[derek_m]

I feel like this is deja vu with my parents planning a remodel at their house.... more "i want to do this" and not enough architect "i recommend this"... does your architect have any 3d renderings or visuals of the plans? i work in revit every day, it would be a huge help to get perspective of what is planned.

you'll have 2 front doors, neither with a coat closet. front entry is used as a breakfast nook/office area? are there humidity issues with a clothes closet off a bathroom? i would lose the return on the end of kitchen counters, use a larger island instead. i would also move the living room closet to where the 1/2 bath is, then remove the wide part of the hallway. set the two bedrooms next to each other on back of house, then locate bathroom and laundry/mudroom towards the front. way too much hallway that's not needed. you mention a lake view on the back of the house, why waste that valuable exterior wall space on closets and laundry?

 

[yeldogt]

I'm not sure what you mean.



The porch is over 10' deep, so the space for the swing out of the French doors is fine. I could put sliders or the "bi-fold" style doors someone else posted, though.

Yes, the small room off the living room is a closet/storage space. It's a bit of a leftover space, and we could use the storage.



The biggest problem are the brick walls you that divide the dining area and living room from the back bedroom/hall/bath area.



Why is the closet unworkable? It's 5'8" deep and 9'8" wide.

Are there kids? I never build in bathtubs any more if space is tight ....

The tub is something I've pondered a lot. Resale is probably my biggest reason for holding on to it. I understand that a home should have at least one tub or parents of young kids won't be interested.

Thanks for the input, you have me thinking![/QUOTE]


1. You want the twin doors in the living room to see the lake ... but the bedroom has no window you can see out of and the bed is facing the wrong way to look out?

2. 10 feet for a deck is not much ..... plus you have out swing doors ? you don't have room for a table and chairs ?

3. Better used in the bedroom for a built-in .... dumb as a closet in that location unless there is some dedicated use. You need something closer to the front doors.

4. It's in the bathroom and you have to walk through to get to it ... the whole bathroom .. well -- you get the idea.

5. With tight spaces you have to use the space for maximum efficiencies -- placing a tub in a bath thats never going to be used .. IMO is not a good use.

 

[WordMan]

Okay guys... first, thanks for the input. I really appreciate it!

Whole new plan, taking most of your comments into account.

 

[BuffettFan]

 

[a6hux]

Looks good!

 

[MattT]

You've still got line of sight from the couch to the commode

That bathroom also looks very small. Maybe play around with extending the bathroom into the corner bedrooms closet?

Also what size bed have you drawn in that corner bedroom? It appears to be larger than the one in the master and is probably making that room look smaller on the plan than it'll be in reality.

Other than that looks good

 

[derek_m]

that updated layout looks really nice

 

[WordMan]

You've still got line of sight from the couch to the commode

That bathroom also looks very small. Maybe play around with extending the bathroom into the corner bedrooms closet?

Also what size bed have you drawn in that corner bedroom? It appears to be larger than the one in the master and is probably making that room look smaller on the plan than it'll be in reality.

Other than that looks good

John's got to go somewhere, and there just isn't much room to hide it.

The bathroom is small, but it's not too bad. It is a fairly small house. Extending it into the corner room, I don't know. Maybe. It's already only a little larger than 10'X12', though.

Corner bed is queen, as is the one in the master. Truth is, the smaller rooms won't have that large of a bed. One will have a full, the other will likely end up as out TV room/office.

 

[WordMan]

You've still got line of sight from the couch to the commode

That bathroom also looks very small. Maybe play around with extending the bathroom into the corner bedrooms closet?

Also what size bed have you drawn in that corner bedroom? It appears to be larger than the one in the master and is probably making that room look smaller on the plan than it'll be in reality.

Other than that looks good

Shrunk the corner room and expanded the guest bathroom. that makes that bedroom roughly 10'X11'. Does that sound too small?

 

[yeldogt]

It's better ... but the master bath is still a lot of wasted space ... and the closet in the bath is not good. I agree on the door toilet with the other bath ...

Are both guest bedrooms used equally?

Spend a couple k with a pro ... ask your local code official if there are any retired architects working in the area ... typically experienced and relatively cheap.

 

[WordMan]

It's better ... but the master bath is still a lot of wasted space ... and the closet in the bath is not good. I agree on the door toilet with the other bath ...

Are both guest bedrooms used equally?

Spend a couple k with a pro ... ask your local code official if there are any retired architects working in the area ... typically experienced and relatively cheap.

It's funny you don't like the closet in the bathroom, that's very common in new homes (and where I got the idea).

The master bath is set up to be large on purpose, it give my wife room (she walks poorly and enclosed spaces are the enemy).

Neither bedroom will really be used, except as a guest bedroom when people come to visit. One will end up a guest room, and the other will likely be a TV room/office until it's time to sell.

I do think I will run it past a pro before I start building, though.

 

[WordMan]

Messed around a bit and got a tub in the second bath. I pushed the tub out from the back wall a bit to give more room in the bathroom, and I'll fill it with a wall with pockets built in for soap, shampoo, etc.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Messed around a bit and got a tub in the second bath. I pushed the tub out from the back wall a bit to give more room in the bathroom, and I'll fill it with a wall with pockets built in for soap, shampoo, etc.

You may want to seriously consider doubling that exterior wall- putting plumbing on an exterior wall can have devastating effects. Then keep that in mind for your dimensions at meeting irc code for bath layout. Keep in mind the size/shape of the toilet; can make a difference in meeting code and fail.

 

[WordMan]

You may want to seriously consider doubling that exterior wall- putting plumbing on an exterior wall can have devastating effects. Then keep that in mind for your dimensions at meeting irc code for bath layout. Keep in mind the size/shape of the toilet; can make a difference in meeting code and fail.

The plumbing for the toilet and sinks will come up through the floor. The guest bathroom is against the garage wall (not show in the plan) as well, and there is a double wall behind he tub (of course I could always put the tub fixtures on the other side).

That leaves us with the master bath's shower. I'll have to do some investigating, but seeing as I'm in East Tennessee (and not the mountains), I don't think it will be an issue. If so, I could swap the sink and shower area, or, as you point out, shrink the shower and build a double wall (similar to the one in the guest bathroom).

Thanks!!

 

[GMCGarage]

1. I would not want my closet off the master bath. Have it into the bedroom. Moisture issues.
2. You have a dead space at the hall to the bedrooms/bathroom (90ft^2). The bathroom is tiny, would be like a echo chamber. Rework that area.
3. I would bring the porch across the back of the master bed, and put a door out to it.

 

[yeldogt]

It's funny you don't like the closet in the bathroom, that's very common in new homes (and where I got the idea).

The master bath is set up to be large on purpose, it give my wife room (she walks poorly and enclosed spaces are the enemy).

Neither bedroom will really be used, except as a guest bedroom when people come to visit. One will end up a guest room, and the other will likely be a TV room/office until it's time to sell.

I do think I will run it past a pro before I start building, though.

The master bath has a poor layout and wastes space .... having a closet for towels and items used for a bath is fine inside .... not a main closet for a bedroom. A bathroom for two people can be done nicely with a pedestal sink, shower and toilet pocket door and vanity outside. if not enough space shower and toilet w/pocket door (they need about 44") The are you have for the toilet is too long.

The whole other side wastes too much space .... the double hallways ..all the doors. Small spaces are harder to do and are not less expensive .... doing built-in cabinetry is often a solution . Pocket doors ...

 

[coldh2o]

It's better ... but the master bath is still a lot of wasted space ... and the closet in the bath is not good.

You keep saying this, but don't explain why. Where would you put the closet?

We have a walk-in closet off our master bath, and love it. I get up an hour earlier than my wife, go into the bath/closet, close the door and get ready for work without disturbing her with noise or lights.

It's also very efficient to have the rooms adjacent - shortest distance from shower to dressing, and the numerous trips back and forth to the sink, mirror, etc. while doing makeup, etc. (her, not me).

 

[coldh2o]

1. I would not want my closet off the master bath. Have it into the bedroom. Moisture issues.

Why are "moisture issues" better in a bedroom than a closet? Regardless, a properly constructed and vented bath has no moisture issues.

 

[WordMan]

The master bath has a poor layout and wastes space .... having a closet for towels and items used for a bath is fine inside .... not a main closet for a bedroom. A bathroom for two people can be done nicely with a pedestal sink, shower and toilet pocket door and vanity outside. if not enough space shower and toilet w/pocket door (they need about 44") The are you have for the toilet is too long.

The whole other side wastes too much space .... the double hallways ..all the doors. Small spaces are harder to do and are not less expensive .... doing built-in cabinetry is often a solution . Pocket doors ...

You have to understand, without resorting to tearing down structure, including part of the roof, this is what I have to work with:

Removing the big brick and cinderblock wall is not a realistic option, so I have to work around it.

Further, I don't want a small master bath, I want it big and airy. As for the closet off the master bath, again, it's done in many, many new homes. It's common, it's convenient, it's easier for my wife, and it's staying.

 

[WordMan]

You keep saying this, but don't explain why. Where would you put the closet?

We have a walk-in closet off our master bath, and love it. I get up an hour earlier than my wife, go into the bath/closet, close the door and get ready for work without disturbing her with noise or lights.

It's also very efficient to have the rooms adjacent - shortest distance from shower to dressing, and the numerous trips back and forth to the sink, mirror, etc. while doing makeup, etc. (her, not me).

I got the idea from new construction. My parents' home in NC (new construction at the time) had a walk in closet off the master bath. Their new home (just built) in Florida has one. Pretty much every home in The Villages is built that way, actually. Why this gives him such a hard time, I don't know, but I'm keeping it. LOL