Home Surge Protection

[SILVERPLATE]

What does everyone recommend for a whole house surge protector. Thanks...Mike

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The search function helps as theres several threads on this subject.

Eaton makes a pretty good one!

But almost every brand makes one...

 

[barnjunkie]

You must have read my mind, I've been looking on the internet all night for one. Surprisingly, I found one for my breaker panel. I currently have an Eaton Type CH panel and I did not know they had a 30 and 50 amp double pole breaker that also has a whole house built in surge protector. Apparently, all you need to do is turn the power off, remove the cover, and install the breaker directly in the panel.
It has Led's to show status, and has a 5 yr warranty.

I hope you are lucky and can find something similar.

 

[cybrdyke]

You get what you pay for...
If you have lots of really expensive things to protect, then spend a few extra bucks for something like this, from Intermatic...http://www.intermatic.com/en/Products/SurgeProtectiveDevices/Surge_Device-Consumable_Modules.aspx
It has replaceable modules, so if you take a big hit they can be replaced without needing an electrician.
If you just want general protection, then this: http://www.intermatic.com/en/Products/SurgeProtectiveDevices/IG_Series/IG1240RC3.aspx

Good luck.
CD

 

[George in Rancho Cordova]

My local utility wants to lease me one.
After reading the fine print, they are not liable for most of the things it purportedly would protect.

We expect municipal water to be safe to drink.
Shouldn't commercial power be safe to use?

 

[Lassen Forge]

Bottom line - you buy a bulk, industrial commodity. You can either use it as is or modify it to a higher standard.

In theory, your utility (SMUD?) is selling you raw power, and offering to surcharge you to have a higher grade of filtration on it (tho at what filtration level we're not sure)...

I would do the same I did with my water when I lived in Sac County - buy my own filtration system to make sure what I was drinking was drinkable. Similarly, if I wanted surge protection - I would spend the $$ and install my own, on my dime, and know that I was protected.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Shouldn't commercial power be safe to use?

The power company can't be responsible for lightning, or if someone runs their car into a power pole. As for leasing surge protection, that will cost you a lot more money over time.

One of these costs about $100, not including installation: http://www.schneider-electric.com/p...spd/54815-******-mounted/61965-type-sdsa1175/ As mentioned, most manufacturers (Square D, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer) sell similar devices.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Be aware that if u use a breaker style surge suppressor, it needs to be listed for use in your particular panel.

The eaton one I mentioned earlier is installed externally so it doesnt need to be listed for use in the panel...

My local utility wants to lease me one.
After reading the fine print, they are not liable for most of the things it purportedly would protect.

We expect municipal water to be safe to drink.
Shouldn't commercial power be safe to use?

How much are we talking here?

Regardless, I wouldnt bother with that. U will end up paying more in the long run!

 

[toplessHO]

hummm good timing on this
neighbor got hit a few days ago(hes occasionally on this forum)
I dont know where his surge protection is but it didnt blow any that he said he has
yet it took out alot of his electronics.
The surge protector on my TV(part of a power strip) must have saved mine because it was tripped and tv is OK.
I have underground service about 400ft long and have individual surge protection at all my major devices. So far this has worked for me and Central Florida is among the highest in country for incidents.
Im going to look into the circuit breaker/panel mounted surge protection but would advise to keep any of this in a separate enclosure to minimize damage to other components should it take a hit.

 

[Rookie2]

I installed a Ditek Corp. several years ago. I've had lightning hit the power line by my service drop and a 60' pine tree 10 ft. from my house. Maybe it was just luck but nothing entered the house.
Installation is required directly to the service feed not thru a breaker.

 

[Jlarson]

A proper surge protection installation is multi-level. Install one at your service entrance, all sub panels, on any long outdoor feeders, point of use protectors at your electronics or surge/ups combos and place protection on all low voltage lines coming into your home.

Install proper over current protection on the line voltage protectors in the panels, when these things take a serious hit they will fail spectacularly, protection and a way to shut them off for replacement is a must. Jabbing the leads into your panels main lugs is a hack job anyway.

Keep the leads as short and straight as possible and tightly bound together, avoid tight bends. You should also make sure all your services are well bonded together and that your grounding electrode system is in good condition.

Brands we use most often for line voltage protectors are Leviton, Square D and Hubble, and Delta lightning arrestors.

 

[sberry]

None of it is any good without good ground. It gave your neighbor a warm feeling but didn't help? One simple unit at the main is about as good as it gets and strikes don't always come thru power but often thru strikes to structures and then carried via ground wires, thru phone and cable, that's why it cooked electronics and didn't surge suppress, that wasn't the source.
The math is on the vendors side with the warranty, its why they offer it up when they give it to an end user they cant be sure it will be installed properly, this is another extended warranty that is sposed to leave a warm feeling, doesn't do much and is no replacement for a good ground rod or uffer and a well routed wire.

 

[sberry]

Logic is in short supply, there should be a class in high school but there are 2 lines of common thinking. 1 being, I did this and nothing bad happened so it must work. Chances are 99.95 that nothing bad would have happened anyway or,, that another correct failsafe worked and the attatchement really don't have a lot to do with it. Second,,, cause I did it this way and it worked it must be right,,,, not true. All the lights will work if the polarity is wrong and you may never get a shock from an unbonded panel.
I saw a woman a while back couldn't understand,, just had the brakes done so she feels safe to tailgate and slams in to the azz of a truck. Got a masters degree and really cant drive a car, I got a functional illiterate bud can drive a truck without using brakes across 5 states.
Point being just cause you did it don't mean its right or that it does anything. I got a strip on my puter aint went bang since I read and apply the code (880) and have one simple suppressor from the w2hoesale house I paid 16 for SD on the service. 4 outgoing from one service with 25 connected panels. 1 16$ suppressor and no issues since I fix grounds thru phone co. Could have put a suppressor on every panel and wouldn't have done a thing.

 

[George in Rancho Cordova]

Just the kind of discussion I was hoping to elicit.

 

[Blk88GT]

I've got the Siemens version installed in my shop, it appears to be a sacrificial item. I haven't taken a hit yet, so I can't comment on it's performance. It was relatively inexpensive and seemed like a no brainer.

 

[jonjon1]

Best protection against a surge or lightening strike is INSURANCE... Make sure you buy the option, some policies cover it automatically, but those that don't always offer the options, its super cheap too, I have home electronics {mostly stereo equipment} values into the 6 digit neighborhood and the coverage is something like $62 a year...



PS, I have dedicated circuits feeding most of my stereo equipment and they do have clean surge breakers, with surge protection at the plug too, lol. But incase that doesnt work the insurance will...

 

[sberry]

Right, your homeowners probably wants any hi end stuff listed separate, same for wood stoves, chimney and rec vehicles. They paid a claim to me back in the day, it was small and somehow it fell under no deductible.
I didn't add a rider, don't have anything worth 620 on the line, havnt had an issue in excess of 10 yrs, I self insure against this kind of loss most of the time.

 

[sberry]

I resolved a problem, added the stuff, a wire really and skipped the insurance.

 

[Whitworth]

I'm skeptical that power surges are really that major a threat to warrant spending money and effort trying to prevent.

I've never had any friends or family ever tell of damage by power surges, and I, myself have had two direct lightning strikes on houses I've owned, and no (known) damage to any appliance or electronics.

One lightning strike touched the chimney and actually caused temporary color distortion on a nearby TV set ( old style cathode ray tube)

I've owned computers and electronics for ever, and never an issue. What are your experiences ?

 

[redmondjp]

I'm skeptical that power surges are really that major a threat to warrant spending money and effort trying to prevent.

I've never had any friends or family ever tell of damage by power surges, and I, myself have had two direct lightning strikes on houses I've owned, and no (known) damage to any appliance or electronics.

One lightning strike touched the chimney and actually caused temporary color distortion on a nearby TV set ( old style cathode ray tube)

I've owned computers and electronics for ever, and never an issue. What are your experiences ?

Well you are the exception then.

Back in the day, major household appliances didn't have any electronic controls in them. Most had a synchronous motor-driven timer in them, which is one of the longest-lasting and most bulletproof electrical devices ever invented (which means of course that they are obsolete now and no longer manufactured).

Now, virtually all appliances from your furnace down to your toaster are controlled by a microcontroller chip and associated electronics, typically mounted on one or more circuit boards. These electronics are sensitive to voltage surges and spikes. Sure, they could put on-board protection on these boards, but that costs extra $. And the manufacturers price these control boards at $150-300 each, so when one fails, if you have to have a repair person come and repair your appliance, it costs almost as much as buying a whole new appliance (this is by design) which is what most people end up doing.

A whole-house surge arrester is one of the best investments you can make in your home, to protect several thousand dollars' worth of appliances and electronics within your home. The bigger the unit, the more joules of energy it will safely dissipate without damage. Where I work, we specify units that cost between $400 and $1200 each. That seems like a lot of money, but you can easily spend that on one appliance repair or replacement.

I have lost track of the number of times this has happened to friends and coworkers. As a result, I now recommend whole-house protection to everybody who asks.

 

[cybrdyke]

^^^^^^ This.
If you haven't had a surge wipe out any of your electrical stuff, then count yourself lucky. It's not about lightning hitting your house or your nearby pole, although if that energy ever did get into your electrical system, it will fry everything. Some of you live where the power company is better than average. Good for you. But dont use your good luck to encourage others to not protect their investments. That's not cool.
Millions of dollars of equipment, both residential and commercial is fried every year due to surges. It's not typically ONE spike that's gonna take out your TV. It's thousands of little spikes.
Have you ever had any electronic equipment die? Ever? Surges is probably what killed it.
CD

 

[Whitworth]

^^^^^^ This.
If you haven't had a surge wipe out any of your electrical stuff, then count yourself lucky. It's not about lightning hitting your house or your nearby pole, although if that energy ever did get into your electrical system, it will fry everything. Some of you live where the power company is better than average. Good for you. But dont use your good luck to encourage others to not protect their investments. That's not cool.
Millions of dollars of equipment, both residential and commercial is fried every year due to surges. It's not typically ONE spike that's gonna take out your TV. It's thousands of little spikes.
Have you ever had any electronic equipment die? Ever? Surges is probably what killed it.
CD

I said

“I’m skeptical of.....”

not

“I’m encouraging others to.....”

If reading comprehension is an issue, I suggest re-reading the paragraph over several times, like they taught you in 4th grade.

I explained my experiences, and asked about others. If you’re so in love with consumer grade electronics that go obsolete every couple of years that you feel the need for surge protection, then by all means, don’t let me or anyone else stop you.

 

[cybrdyke]

I said

“I’m skeptical of.....”

not

“I’m encouraging others to.....”

If reading comprehension is an issue, I suggest re-reading the paragraph over several times, like they taught you in 4th grade.

I explained my experiences, and asked about others. If you’re so in love with consumer grade electronics that go obsolete every couple of years that you feel the need for surge protection, then by all means, don’t let me or anyone else stop you.

What the hell are you prattling on about??
No where in your post do you encourage anyone to not buy protection. So why do you think my comments were directed at you?
Maybe you should get a fkcing clue and re-read the thread. Not everyting is about YOU.
****.
CD

 

[westom]

After reading the fine print, they are not liable for most of the things it purportedly would protect.

No protector does protection. For example, best protection on coax TV cable is a hardwire from their cable to your single point earth ground. Protection is defined by what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thosuands of joules. That hardwire does not. An earth ground, that you are responsible for, does.

An earth ground must exist for human safety. It must both meet and exceed code to also provide transistor safety. Earthing is the 'art' of protection. You - not your utility - is responsible for THE most critical component in a protection system.

Some utility wires (ie telco, AC electric) cannot connect directly to earth. Install a 'whole house' protector to do what that hardwire does better. A protector only connects energy low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to what absorbs that energy.

AC utility can provide a protector behind their meter. But every protector is only as effective as its earth ground. A protector without an earth ground does not even claim to protect from the other and destructive surge. A properly earthed 'whole house' protector does. They cannot guarantee what only your are responsible for.

As for protectors with big buck warranties and no earth ground: that warranty is chock full of exemptions. Best warranty is insurance that comes from a state licensed insurance company.

Protector is simple science. "Life expectancy" is defined by one important number: at least 50,000 amps (since a direct lightning strike may be 20,000 amps). "Art" of protection is what should have everyone's attention. Earthing defined protection for each surge. Single point earth ground. All four words have electrical significance.

Destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. But the event is so destructive. And a solution to avert damage costs about $1 per protected appliance.