Homemade engine stand

[scott37300]

Well after seeing Bull's "new" engine stand I decided my little HF stand needed an upgrade. Since I can't ever seem to find any local deals on older quality jacks or engine stand and can't afford a really nice one I have decided to build my own.

I was doing a bunch of googling today and came across a few really nice ones. The frame part is pretty simple, I tend to overdue things so that will be built well and get some good casters for it. The part I have some questions with is the rotating part. My HF stand is just a pipe inside a pipe and it doesn't turn well at all. I saw that some of the nicer ones have gear boxes to help with rotating, I have a couple of 30:1 heavy duty gear boxes laying around that I can use to make rotating a breeze.

Is there a way to use some bearings instead of just a pipe inside a pipe to make it easier to turn? Maybe some big pillow bearings or something? Maybe a 3/8" thick plate of steel 12" long on top of the upright and then a pillow block bearing on each end? These would take a 2 1/2" pipe pretty close.

I would think bearings and a gear box would make rotating an engine really easy. Just need some advice on my "engineering" using bearings. I think it will work but I am not an engineer. Or am I way over thinking this and should just use a gear box and a pipe inside a pipe like other stands use?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Packard V8]

1. Don't reinvent the wheel !! There are plenty of good designs to copy.
2. Be careful not to make it too complicated and too long. All those bearings and gearboxes take up space.
3. The best rebuilder I know hates engine stands and refuses to have one in his shop. He works off a custom bench of parallel 2" angle iron the same distance apart as the pan rails of most US engines.

jack vines

 

[rsanter]

yes you can, but unless you get them for a deal price do know how expensive that will be?

if you had a pipe in a pipe design what had a good clearance and grease zerks then it would rotate nicly and can be done for cheap

how about the pipe with a series of smaller bearings surrounding it, that would be cheaper

how about you get you hands on the rear axle of a 3/4 to 1.5 ton truck
cut the end of the axle off and use the hub and bearings from that.
its a floating axle so there will be a hollow that you can run a shaft through
so you could use/make a worm and ring gear setup for turning it and holding it in place
HF has some cheap winches that use a worm and ring setup so you could throw the cable away and use the parts to attach to the back so you have your crank/gear turning setup


bob

 

[scott37300]

Thanks for the advice Jack. Not trying to reinvent the wheel but I do want something built to last and that rotates EASY. Maybe it's just my HF stand but I hate struggling to rotate an engine. I have read that the cheaper stands don't rotate good because the pipes are a sloppy fit. Read that a pretty tight clearance and a grease zerk will make it pretty smooth. So I am leaning with that and then also use my of my gear boxes. I have it and it won't take up to much room or be in the way and I think being able to do small easy adjustments will be nice.

Anyone have pictures of stands they built, particularly of the rotating part?

 

[greasemonkey44]

we have those pipe in pipe stands, they arent that bad
spray the inner with lube and itll move easier.
i dont want my spindles to be free floating or easy to spin, cause once they start turning its a ***** kitty to stop them

 

[scott37300]

Well I found some pillow bearings at a surplus place for dirt cheap but the more I read the more I believe a tight clearance between two pipes with a grease zerk is the way to go. Now just have to find two sizes of pipe that are smooth and truely round so I can get a tight clearance.

 

[diggerrick]

I would not use roller element bearings.

I would prefer greasable solid bearings or bushings.

 

[rsanter]

to you have access to a lathe of mill?

one option os to take the stand you have and measure the ID and OD of the pipes to find the difference

find some copper that is about that thickness (or half the thickness of the difference between them)
roll that copper and make a 'bushing' out of them
use silver solder to bond the copper to the ID of the bigger pipe.
its also possable to use solid rivits to connect the two
drill and tap for the install of a couple of zerks
get a couple of big Orings to help keep the dirt out of the grease

put the whole works together and you will have an improved engine stand from a cheap one

bob

 

[scott37300]

No lathe or mill, would be nice!

I am having a hard time finding two pipes to use with fairly tight clearances. One of the problems is that most of the tubing/pipes have a welded seam on the inside so that won't work, and the ones that don't have a seam are pretty expensive. Might have to take a trip to local steel supply house and play around with some tubing to see what I can come up with.

 

[TheGrooveking]

Do NOT use pipe, use steel tubing of the proper strength, standard steel plumbing pipe is not strong enough to hold a V8. I may be overly cautious and realize that some here reference the steel tubing of their engine stands as pipe, but just wanted to clarify incase someone confused the two.

TheGrooveking

 

[welder4956]

No lathe or mill, would be nice!

I am having a hard time finding two pipes to use with fairly tight clearances. One of the problems is that most of the tubing/pipes have a welded seam on the inside so that won't work, and the ones that don't have a seam are pretty expensive. Might have to take a trip to local steel supply house and play around with some tubing to see what I can come up with.

2.5" OD x 1/4" wall thickness round DOM tube for the outside, 2" OD x 1/4" wall tube to slide inside. We have a place here locally called Metal Supermarket that will cut it to length and only charge for the piece that was cut. Much less than buying a full length of tube.

 

[Packard V8]

At catalog prices, the two 6" pieces of 2" and 2.5" DOM .250" wall is going to total between $30 and $50 minimum.

jack vines

 

[Bull]

First, let me say that if you do this project, I will love to see it in progress.

That being said, do you know how much I have into that monstrous 2k lb Blackhawk stand? $75! Maybe you could just scour the local classifieds until one or one similar comes up for equally cheap dough?

 

[Gmonkee]

Scott, could you make a front wheel drive car hub and bearing assembly work for you? They are well past the specs you would need even rolling a big block ford or chev motor.
Plus they come with studs and bolt holes already in place to use. That would eliminate any need for a lathe and be replacable in the future with a like unit in case of failure.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Do NOT use pipe, use steel tubing of the proper strength, standard steel plumbing pipe is not strong enough to hold a V8. I may be overly cautious and realize that some here reference the steel tubing of their engine stands as pipe, but just wanted to clarify incase someone confused the two.

TheGrooveking

Where did you get the info that pipe won't work for a V8 engine stand? 2 inch schedule 40 pipe or larger works just fine. I have built several over the years, and they are all still in use. Thick wall tubing is not easy for the average backyard guy to find, nor necessary in this application, if built CORRECTLY. Just don't use galvanized, as bad fumes are emitted during welding.

 

[bradweingartner]

I have a design in my head that involves a 4x4 front truck spindle, a locking hub, and some chain-drive reduction for a crank using bicycle parts. Pretty easy to piece it together from there I think.

 

[scott37300]

2.5" OD x 1/4" wall thickness round DOM tube for the outside, 2" OD x 1/4" wall tube to slide inside. We have a place here locally called Metal Supermarket that will cut it to length and only charge for the piece that was cut. Much less than buying a full length of tube.

Wouldn't that still leave a 1/4" difference, 1/8" gap all the way around and be pretty sloppy?

First, let me say that if you do this project, I will love to see it in progress.

That being said, do you know how much I have into that monstrous 2k lb Blackhawk stand? $75! Maybe you could just scour the local classifieds until one or one similar comes up for equally cheap dough?

I would love to find a good quality used one but around me nothing seems to come up. I've been looking for a good old jack, engine stand, and many other metal working tools with out much luck. They only good deal I have gotten off craigslist was an old 36" pexto slip roller that I picked up for 75 bucks. A retired high school teacher was selling it.

Scott, could you make a front wheel drive car hub and bearing assembly work for you? They are well past the specs you would need even rolling a big block ford or chev motor.
Plus they come with studs and bolt holes already in place to use. That would eliminate any need for a lathe and be replacable in the future with a like unit in case of failure.

Gmonkee, my favorite home made tool guy! I was actually thinking about this today when I was doing some searching. I was thinking I could use a hub and then use part of the half shaft with the splines to come out of the back and use some gears and a chain to hook it up with my 30:1 gearbox. I'm going to check into this some more, maybe go check out some junk yards to see what they have. Any suggestions to what vehicles would work best for strength? Thanks

Check out this stand I found in my searching! Has hieght adjustment and geared rotation.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PYNPzpwSgrs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Weps]

how many engines do you people rebuild and how heavy are they? i've only done four or five - all 302. can't say i ever had the need to spin them like a roulette wheel. for the time, effort, and materials being talked about, do you really gain that much "performance" over a $60.00 stand?

 

[TheGrooveking]

Where did you get the info that pipe won't work for a V8 engine stand? 2 inch schedule 40 pipe or larger works just fine. I have built several over the years, and they are all still in use. Thick wall tubing is not easy for the average backyard guy to find, nor necessary in this application, if built CORRECTLY. Just don't use galvanized, as bad fumes are emitted during welding.

Where did I get the info, engineering reference, add to that much of the steel pipe at the big box stores is made in China, so quality may vary. Pipe that is rated for 200 psi, doesn't mean it will support 750 pounds when welded to the end of the pipe. Unless you KNOW the strength(mechanical properties) of the pipe, you are guessing, which is dangerous.

TheGrooveking

 

[OccupantRJ]

Where did I get the info, engineering reference, add to that much of the steel pipe at the big box stores is made in China, so quality may vary. Pipe that is rated for 200 psi, doesn't mean it will support 750 pounds when welded to the end of the pipe. Unless you KNOW the strength(mechanical properties) of the pipe, you are guessing, which is dangerous.

TheGrooveking

And if an engineer builds a stand for himself out of the best materials available, and isn't a pro welder, he's STILL guessing.

 

[scott37300]

how many engines do you people rebuild and how heavy are they? i've only done four or five - all 302. can't say i ever had the need to spin them like a roulette wheel. for the time, effort, and materials being talked about, do you really gain that much "performance" over a $60.00 stand?

I don't do a ton of engines and I don't need to spin it around like a roulette wheel, but I spin them around to get to the bottom end and top end when doing piston changes. And I don't like having to use a lot of force when trying to spin the engine over, especially on a cheap 60 dollar stand. As for the cost, I have most of the parts so that won't be an issue. I'll need some steel and a hub if I go that route. I have some steel, the casters, a heavy duty gear box, chain and sprockets.

The gear box idea is just because I have the stuff and it's something I want. My cheap HF stand, it's the middle line one with 4 casters, is a pain to rotate. I have to really force it, which I don't like putting that much force to it. Will feel much more safe just turning a handle. I have the gear box, actually 3 of them so why not use one of them?

 

[OccupantRJ]

I don't do a ton of engines and I don't need to spin it around like a roulette wheel, but I spin them around to get to the bottom end and top end when doing piston changes. And I don't like having to use a lot of force when trying to spin the engine over, especially on a cheap 60 dollar stand. As for the cost, I have most of the parts so that won't be an issue. I'll need some steel and a hub if I go that route. I have some steel, the casters, a heavy duty gear box, chain and sprockets.

The gear box idea is just because I have the stuff and it's something I want. My cheap HF stand, it's the middle line one with 4 casters, is a pain to rotate. I have to really force it, which I don't like putting that much force to it. Will feel much more safe just turning a handle. I have the gear box, actually 3 of them so why not use one of them?

Those 30:1 gear boxes will give some great incremental control, but you might want tp power it with a drill motor, because your arms gonna get tired of cranking at that ratio!

 

[slopecarver]

if using bearing blocks, they must be used in pairs because when solo they can't take bending forces.

 

[TheGrooveking]

And if an engineer builds a stand for himself out of the best materials available, and isn't a pro welder, he's STILL guessing.

No he's not guessing, he'll know he screwed up.

TheGrooveking

 

[Gmonkee]

Scott, I would look for a mid sized fwd model that the hub has few protrusions , as in strut mounts and such. A basic square setup from a heavier car, Chev celebrity sized more or less. I can't recall off the top of my head which are like that but a walk in the auto boneyard will be the best way to find the one that works for you.

Keep us posted on any progress as you can.

Brian

 

[scott37300]

I would think pretty much any hub assembly like this would work.

 

[Gmonkee]

Yes sir! That would be a good one for being easy to mount cleanly. All you have to get is a cv joint end for it and adapt that to the gearbox you have.

Consider beefing up the HF frame a bit and replacing the tube assembly with the bearing/hub. It will save a bit of money and time, as well as taking the "ugh" factor out of the HF stand. You really don't need two engine stands, do you? That will free up a bit of cash to get better casters on the existing frame.
Just an idea.

 

[scott37300]

I've been debating on chopping the HF stand up and working with that. I like to overbuild everything I do so was going to start fresh with some beefy steel so that this would be the last engine stand I would ever need. But I don't need 2 engine stands and the HF stand I have now has been holding a 5.4L for a couple years now so it seems pretty sturdy. I just didn't like how hard it was to rotate the engine. So that might be a good idea. I can always chop the head off the HF stand and weld a plate onto it with some gussets and then bolt my new head onto it. Then if I ever feel the need to build a better base I can and just bolt the head and gearbox up to it.

Thanks for the help!

 

[nissan_crawler]

Do NOT use pipe, use steel tubing of the proper strength, standard steel plumbing pipe is not strong enough to hold a V8. I may be overly cautious and realize that some here reference the steel tubing of their engine stands as pipe, but just wanted to clarify incase someone confused the two.

TheGrooveking

Works fine for fully dressed big blocks.

Just a little v-6 hanging on it here...

Besides "pipe" is a little vague to start with.

 

[1931S/X]

i built mine out of 4" shc40 steel pipe. the cheap casters i used are the biggest limiting factor. ive had several fully dressed big block mopars on it. i had a high school machine shop machine the parts for me. just a big bronze bushing on a solid 2" shaft with a 1" plate with some milled slots i welded on.

 

[welder4956]

Wouldn't that still leave a 1/4" difference, 1/8" gap all the way around and be pretty sloppy?

Ummmm...No. 2.5" OD minus 1/4" wall on "both" sides leaves a 2" hole in the middle. With manufacturing tolerances, it is a close fit. May require a little sanding or grinding on the 2" if it is too tight.

 

[welder4956]

Where did I get the info, engineering reference, add to that much of the steel pipe at the big box stores is made in China, so quality may vary. Pipe that is rated for 200 psi, doesn't mean it will support 750 pounds when welded to the end of the pipe. Unless you KNOW the strength(mechanical properties) of the pipe, you are guessing, which is dangerous.

The black iron pipe sold in the big box stores is typically ASTM A53 welded pipe. I have not seen any other grades of steel pipe in the box stores. The welded pipe has a minimum tensile strength of 45,000 psi, and minimum yield strength of 25,000 psi. Seamless pipe would be higher strength depending on whether it is Grade A or B. The ASTM spec and grade will be printed along the outside of the pipe and should be clearly visible on new pipe. If it is not visible, it is anyone's guess as to what spec and grade it is.

A NPS 1.5 pipe has an OD of 1.900", and will slide inside a NPS 2 Schedule 80 pipe which has an ID of 1.939" and a wall thickness of 0.218". This would be plenty strong for a 750 lb. engine. Just to be safe, if welded pipe were used then the weld seam should be placed on the bottom portion that is welded to the upright.

Here is a chart of pipe sizes with outside and inside diameters shown.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-pipes-dimensions-d_43.html

 

[scott37300]

Ummmm...No. 2.5" OD minus 1/4" wall on "both" sides leaves a 2" hole in the middle. With manufacturing tolerances, it is a close fit. May require a little sanding or grinding on the 2" if it is too tight.

You are correct. Forgot the both sides part.

I'm still thinking the hub will be the best way to go, as long as it can support the forces of an engine. When it's on a vehicle it only has a tire hanging on it but I would think some of the forces of pot holes and bumps would be as much stress as an engine hanging on one? Will be nice if it will work because I"m sure I can find a used one cheap and then also get the half shaft for it to be able to rotate it. Would make things pretty simple.

 

[OccupantRJ]

You are correct. Forgot the both sides part.

I'm still thinking the hub will be the best way to go, as long as it can support the forces of an engine. When it's on a vehicle it only has a tire hanging on it but I would think some of the forces of pot holes and bumps would be as much stress as an engine hanging on one? Will be nice if it will work because I"m sure I can find a used one cheap and then also get the half shaft for it to be able to rotate it. Would make things pretty simple.

The hub is holding part of the weight of the CAR, not the weight of the wheel/tire assembly.

 

[scott37300]

The hub is holding part of the weight of the CAR, not the weight of the wheel/tire assembly.

Right, sometimes I tend to over think things and forget about the obvious things. I think a hub will work great. The force of going over a pot hole at 55 miles an hour has to be more than an engine hanging off of it. Plus like you said each hub has more weight than the typical engine on it at all times with the weight of the vehicle pressing down on it.

 

[welder4956]

You are correct. Forgot the both sides part.

I'm still thinking the hub will be the best way to go, as long as it can support the forces of an engine. When it's on a vehicle it only has a tire hanging on it but I would think some of the forces of pot holes and bumps would be as much stress as an engine hanging on one? Will be nice if it will work because I"m sure I can find a used one cheap and then also get the half shaft for it to be able to rotate it. Would make things pretty simple.

The hub is definitely a good way to go. It is supporting one corner of the car, so it is capable of carrying much more than the weight of the tire and wheel. On a 3000 lb. car with 60/40 weight distribution, it might see 600 lb. of static weight (not counting passengers and cargo) on the rear or 900 lb. on the front plus dynamic road forces.

 

[scott37300]

The hub is definitely a good way to go. It is supporting one corner of the car, so it is capable of carrying much more than the weight of the tire and wheel. On a 3000 lb. car with 60/40 weight distribution, it might see 600 lb. of static weight (not counting passengers and cargo) on the rear or 900 lb. on the front plus dynamic road forces.

Yes after thinking about it some more I realised that when I car hits a pot hole going 55 it will put much more stress on the hub than an engine ever will.

Thanks to all the advice everyone. I'm going to start looking for a hub assembly and a half shaft to match it and then I think I am going chop up my HF stand to use as a base for now and see how it holds up.

 

[bmwpower]

Check out this stand I found in my searching! Has hieght adjustment and geared rotation.

Looks like they sell them? There's a whole bunch in the back of the warehouse behind the guy....

http://www.weitnertools.com/products/MG600V.htm

 

[welder4956]

Looks like they sell them? There's a whole bunch in the back of the warehouse behind the guy....

http://www.weitnertools.com/products/MG600V.htm

Wonder how much shipping from Eichstatt, Germany would be?

 

[McRae]

They're 1140 Euros... Ex works... Tad expensive. Not that I'm not tempted!