Hooking up electric furnace plenum $1500 quote???

[rocklobster]

I am replacing my oil furnace currently and going electric forced air. I only need the furnace when not heating with the wood stove when I go away. I dont have access to natural gas and electric was supposed to be cheaper equipment cost than LP.

My neighbour is an electrician and he has sold me the furnace and is going to do all the electrical. His guy for HVAC is going to 'hook up' the furnace, tonight I was speaking with the HVAC guy to tell him that the furnace is in the basement and ready for 'hook up', I asked him a few questions including how much is his ballpark cost for the work and he said $1500 all in.

The HVAC guy said the quote may be high because has not seen the work yet but in my mind all he has to do is connect the duct work, he knows that my neighbour is doing all the electrical hookup for the furnace(including permit), electrical materials, and wiring the furnace.

Is it me or is the HVAC guy way, way out to lunch, $1500 for some tin bashing and connecting two the T stat wires? What else would he have to do for hooking up this furnace that would necessitate that kind of expense? Thanks for the help!

Here are pics of required work, new furnace in front of hot air plenum:

 

[themiller]

I PURCHASED my furnace through a large HVAC company AND had them install it.

Including delivery, new electrical, thermostat, and tin work I was all in at $1800.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

The installation portion of my HVAC class where all we did was work in teams assembling and disassembling plenums from there metal duct-work was what I called the free-for-all portion of class. It all came down to your ability to work with tools, cut, trim, bend and fit. Nothing ever came out perfect but it all worked fine. It all depends upon your research prowess, determination, patience and brass. If it were me, Id have to pay and hire myself for that kind of money, but that is and always has been me.

 

[Ohmthis]

Rocklobster, is he connecting a lineset for AC also? Is the furnace sitting on the floor , or on insulator "biscuits"? It looks to me that would take me about 30 min and the only materials a tube of caulk and some "biscuits". Again that is not seeing anything else. If he is connecting a line set it still shouldn't even come close to $1500. More like $300-$400. If no line set do this yourself! I can help you.

 

[rocklobster]

Ohmthis, no he is not connecting any AC, I don't currently have any, but I would like the HVAC guy to leave enough room in the plenum for the evaporator if I ever decide to get AC.

The furnace instructions state to elevate the furnace 1 to 2 inches off the floor, what do you mean by insulator biscuits? I was thinking some kind of concrete/patio stone.

Hopefully this guy comes back to reality when he can get over to my house and look at the work, if not I will tell him to leave!

CWO4GUNNER; I do play with sheet metal in my shop at times I like a challenge, the hot air plenum I currently have is 20X20" and the furnace is 18X20 so it only has to be tapered 2" along one side I would assume you would cut upwards on both sides 6 or 8 inches then bend it in to match the furnace, how would you seal any tapering cuts?

How hard would it be to get the cold air intake to the bottom of the furnace? Is there any preformed panels that I could buy at an HVAC jobber shop like the J 90 deg for the cold air return?

I was just really shocked last night in the costs that are adding up quick on this furnace upgrade, the electrician was over last night and said that it would be best to wire a new panel ($1000) for the extra room, wire is going to be $400, Furnace is $800, his furnace wiring labor/permit $500... Then talk to HVAC guy and he says $1500 on top, man my head was spinning!

Does not seem right when I was quoted ballpark 5K for a LP furnace turn key including oil tank and furnace removal... I have done all the work myself so far in removing the oil and furnace... Anybody want to come over and help me get the tank out!

 

[Highbeam]

Welcome to homeowner general contracting. So each of these trades is charging you a premium for not being a repeat customer and to make sure they each get a piece of the profits. They each are taking a relatively high risk in dealing with you vs. a real general.

 

[rocklobster]

I see your point Highbeam but I fail to see how I would be higher risk, I am being proactive, I am making sure that the old equipment is removed, I am relatively informed in what I need him to do, but in the end I am still a customer just like any other. I pay the bill so you have to satisfy me no matter if you are sub'ed or not.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Labor is just dog-on expensive, that on top of having to pay for what you don't know or really where confidence is lacking, just places the customer at the short end of the stick. When I won the bid on a foreclosure last Sep, I was being quoted prices minimum starting at $25000 to refurbish the home. Nothing complex just a little repairs of everything landscaping, electrical, plumbing, painting, windows, carpeting, roofing, AC, exc exc. But I just need the quotes to get me DIY motivated. $6500 and 5 months later the house looks like new (way better then if I contracted) and I have a rental contract with a tenant inside.

As far as sealing the seams on the plenum once fitted, Id use what always used HVAC aluminum tape to seal any air leaks. Don't get me wrong, you cant DIY wing it. But there is absolutely no reason whatsoever as the homeowner with good tool skills, and armed with the information highway you can do this yourself and save a bundle and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The only thing remaining, and there's no way of getting around it, is how bad do you want to DIY or pay up, its really that simple.

 

[volleyball]

Thee are isolation pads to be installed under the furnace. Not concrete.
You will need new tin for the return plenum, most likely it goes to almost the floor to enter the side intake, along with a filter. Your supply line would need to have a new section.
You don't need a lot of skill but you do need some. A pro made tin will be more efficient but you could get sections and do an okay job.
If you get sealer and do all your joints, you will save some money.
What about getting a few quotes?

 

[Highbeam]

The homeowner/general is a higher risk customer than a career general. They are less experienced, pickier, more likely to want to "help", less likely to pay, more difficult to schedule and want it NOW, offer small jobs only, and usually want it cheaper.

Sure, you might be the exception but I'd rather have one customer that I like and keep him happy then have to satisfy a new one every day.

 

[Zeke]

Welcome to homeowner general contracting. So each of these trades is charging you a premium for not being a repeat customer and to make sure they each get a piece of the profits. They each are taking a relatively high risk in dealing with you vs. a real general.

The homeowner/general is a higher risk customer than a career general. They are less experienced, pickier, more likely to want to "help", less likely to pay, more difficult to schedule and want it NOW, offer small jobs only, and usually want it cheaper.

Sure, you might be the exception but I'd rather have one customer that I like and keep him happy then have to satisfy a new one every day.

I'll work for a homeowner any day before working for a general contractor.

 

[brewchief]

I'll work for a homeowner any day before working for a general contractor.

This for sure, we deal with around 200 different homeowners a year on HVAC replacements, we get paid at the end of the job before we leave.

In the last 10-15 years I can only think of one or two times that we had trouble getting paid. Builders and other contractors all want to be billed and then want to wait until you threaten to lien them before paying.


I see a couple hours building sheet metal and a couple hours putting things together, probably 700-800$ unless I'm missing something.

FWIW it's always easier to throw out a high number then drop it then start low and increase the price.

 

[vekster]

I see a couple hours building sheet metal and a couple hours putting things together, probably 700-800$ unless I'm missing something.

FWIW it's always easier to throw out a high number then drop it then start low and increase the price.

This for sure. Especially if he's busy and has not seen the job.



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[Ohmthis]

Rocklobster, that is a basic electric strip heat air handler, it should have a coil of some sort in it for $800. Look for two copper pipes sticking out somewhere, or an oval knockout and some PVC female fittings. I know prices are regional, but for the plenum and filter box, piece to tie the filter box into the return, and drives and slides would be no more than $125. I embellished some on time, but an honest 1.5 hours and it's in. Yes the biscuits I'm referring to are insulators 1" tall. It doesn't require any overly expensive or difficult tools to do the job. Foil tape is a way to seal the seams, but sometimes it will fall off over time. " Duct Butter", (a sealing mastic) can be used to seal also. You can study installing sheet metal by searching online. I personally do not believe this is even close to $700-$800. Are you claiming two guys?

 

[rocklobster]

Nice, thanks guys for the info and encouragement.

Today I was in the city near me and I stopped into the big HVAC Plumbing jobber and talked to the salesman about getting the return air and plenum, he did not know much but pulled the guy from out of the back. The guy that comes out has got tats and a grey goatee, super badass looking, but super nice! I gave him my dimensions but I failed to measure the main trunk size and he needs that for the PTO off the plenum. Sounds like he can fabricate the metal I need as soon as I call him back with the right measurements.

So I think that I am going DIY on this sheet metal and furnace part, good thing because I was looking to go DIY on replacing the panel as well but after pricing the panel, breakers, and permit fees I was only going to save $300. Not enough savings for all the hassle involved with coordinating the power disconnect, installation, inspection, and re-connect... Plus I will send the money next door instead of Lowes and the electrical authority.

Ohmthis, yeah I checked and no coil is in this furnace, just a blower fan and a giant toaster.

 

[Ohmthis]

Rocklobster, was there a space maybe 20-24" tall between the blower and strip heaters? I would believe so, that would be the space for the acoil. Which you can add later using the model number of your air handler to match. Hope all this helps! BTW, make a drawing of the furnace, plenum, and return dimensions for the duct guy. You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words. I would also have them put a filter track into the return for...........a filter!

 

[danski0224]

Is it me or is the HVAC guy way, way out to lunch, $1500 for some tin bashing and connecting two the T stat wires? What else would he have to do for hooking up this furnace that would necessitate that kind of expense? Thanks for the help!

If it's that easy, do it yourself

There are a couple of outfits around here that would do it up in cardboard and foil tape for that money and sell you an extended warranty on top...

Once again on these "OMG, the HVAC guy is screwing me" threads, no scope of work is provided.

For a "box swap" chit it in as cheap as possible, $1500 is out of line. That is what Low Bid Joe does. Even primo work "Comfort Guaranteed" places can do the same thing.

To redo the fittings and improve airflow, $1500 is not out of line.

If the ductwork is undersized, sealing it will do more harm than good.

If the filter is sized wrong, using those pleated filters is also bad.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Sounds like he can fabricate the metal I need as soon as I call him back with the right measurements.

Try and take him some basic (draft printed quality) quality 8x10 photos of all sides of the plenum with detailed measurements super imposed or drawn so he can get a good idea of the job. If it all works out, keep his card for your A coil install later.

 

[themiller]

Glad this is working out for you.

 

[volleyball]

If A/C is in the near future, tell the tin man that. That way he can build it with a box that you can use. No sense in replacing new tin.
It also may be worth getting a pro who designs to check to see if your stuff is sufficient.

 

[mygarageone]

For get building a box They make a coil cabinet that will match up to your furnace . They run $100 bucks or so. They are designed for a coil to side right in with no problems.

 

[rocklobster]

Rocklobster, was there a space maybe 20-24" tall between the blower and strip heaters? I would believe so, that would be the space for the acoil. Which you can add later using the model number of your air handler to match. Hope all this helps! BTW, make a drawing of the furnace, plenum, and return dimensions for the duct guy. You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words. I would also have them put a filter track into the return for...........a filter!

No space between the coils and blower, I checked the furnace info and it says that one can mount in the return or supply vents. I will tell the tin basher to accommodate for one.

Yeah the furnace comes with a filter frame designed for the unit.

 

[rocklobster]

For get building a box They make a coil cabinet that will match up to your furnace . They run $100 bucks or so. They are designed for a coil to side right in with no problems.

Thank you!

 

[JimL]

$1500 doesn't seem too far out of line if I were to do it. Sheetmetal needed, a transition from existing supply to the furnace, a box for the furnace to sit on with or without a media filter in it, if no filter in base box then a separate media filter box, a b-end on that then a return adaptor from existing to the new b-end on the filter. So theres 5 pieces, time to go get them or build them and install them.

$800 is a rip off for a modular blower with a heater.

 

[mygarageone]

Ya know guys you can judge the price as too high when you don't take all the factors into account.
This may only be a 2 hr install for 2 Men if everything goes right , but this is every bit of a 4 hr job for 2 men . Driving both ways , set up , clean up time . There's a half a day gone no matter how you slice it. Add permit cost , liability , and on it goes.
This price is not out of line.
Have you seen a doctor lately , I just did and 15 min's of his time cost me $130.00 and I had to go see him , he didn't come to me.

 

[volleyball]

Thank you!

That sounds like a good deal. But how much does it cost and how adaptable is it. You will still need a custom piece to hook it into your plenum. So add those two costs together as opposed to 1 custom larger box that would likely flow better and you may be spending more for less.
You have to think of the whole system and how it works together. You don't build a car by picking the engine you like, the trans you like, the chassis and the body. Then hopes it all works together.

 

[mygarageone]

Here we go again advice from non heating , sheetmetal experts.
Why do you want to reinvent the wheel? A coil cabinet designed to match to this furnace is far , far better than making a Box for it .they are insulated , have removable front access panels. Sealer built into the panel , the proper holes already put in for the drain line and coil lines , rails to slide the coil in with no restrictions . Why would you have something made at probably more cost than a coil box designed for this furnace. It makes no sense.
I do this all the time and I never make a so called box unless I have to out of need.

 

[volleyball]

You would want to do it if it worked better/ maybe cost less.
The OP has to live with it, the installer doesn't. To add a factory box and fit some tin to make it look complete is a no brainer. And a lot of HVAC guys will take that approach. Look at the "systems" in cheap housing projects.
I've seen retrofits done that didn't perform as expected because of what was done. You may be right, I never said slapping a factory box on and a small custom piece wasn't the best choice, just that it may not be. And a wild guess would be 50 -50.

 

[rocklobster]

Sent the measurements in photos to tin basher, waiting to hear back on quote.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Personally Iv never exspirience poor performance as a result of a poorly shaped but otherwise effective box. It always been the ducting distribution and fitting. Especially with poorly stretched and hung flex-duct, mostly cooling suffers though.

 

[mygarageone]

Sent the measurements in photos to tin basher, waiting to hear back on quote.

I have to laugh at your basher comment , I have never heard us called tin bashers before . Though I have bashed some in my life getting it out !

 

[rocklobster]

Oh man, that quote was $975 ouch...

Today I went to a local plumbing and heating contractor with in house sheet metal shop and they said it should be easy and start around $300. A definite plus is that they said the currently their metal shop is slow and soon to pick up, so they seem more motivated for the work. I will keep updates coming.

 

[rocklobster]

Just got plenum and return ducting made for me today. It cost $300 and it was a local company. I just have to put it in! Pics to come.

 

[volleyball]

Congrats.