Horizontal air compressor help

[tommyp]

Looking for a decent deal on a horizontal compressor. I am finishing out my shop addition. Behind the wall where my bench is going to go there is a U set of stairs. I would like to use the wasted space under the landing to put a 60-80 gal horizontal compressor.

Having a hard time finding a decent deal on a horizontal single phase two stage.

Ideally looking for something like the HF two stage but horizontal so it fits in the space I have.

What is my best and cheapest option? Buy a vertical and then a horizontal tank? And sell off the vertical tank?

It just doesnt seem I can get a complete horizontal under $1500 or more. Where I can get a new hf or others for 800-1200.

 

[md21722]

Buy used. Call your local compressor shops and see what they've got.

 

[CNGsaves]

If you're in Switzerland or Ethiopia, you'll have limited air compressors available !!

UPDATE GJ Profile with a Location.

Fellow GJer's likely can help find horizontal compressor on CL. Used compressor is way to go.

 

[larry_g]

My neighbor has one for sale, if only we knew where you were...

lg
no neat sig line

 

[tommyp]

Updated. I am in Burlington Vermont. Sorry guys I thought it was in there.

 

[tommyp]

The issue that I am having with finding a used one is that almost all the horizontals are 3 phase. More for industrial use than home.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Can you find a gas powered two stage and convert it? Not sure how cost effective unless you were given the compressor and had access to a 5 HP single phase.

Edit- Sorry - missed the 60 to 80 gallon part. I think most service truck compressors are 30 ish.

 

[CNGsaves]

The issue that I am having with finding a used one is that almost all the horizontals are 3 phase. More for industrial use than home.

Beat down price on 3 phase horizontal then 5 HP single phase quality motor like Baldor, Leeson, etc. can be found in $150 to $450 range.

Here you go . . . . first search of CL in Vermont:

Champion 80 gallon $1,250 (3 phase) but he'll sell static convertor for more
http://vermont.craigslist.org/tls/5536247266.html

Champion 80 gallon HR10-12 (looks NICE) - - listed YESTERDAY (3 phase) $1,000
https://vermont.craigslist.org/tls/5572904900.html

Here's a new Leeson 5 HP motor for $425
http://vermont.craigslist.org/tls/5525863805.html

 

[tommyp]

Ok so if I get a three phase it is doable to swap motors? Sorry I am a bit challenged in electrical motor knowledge. I was just worried the 3 phase comps were calling for 7 and 10 hp motors that would be a lot beefier than a 5hp 220v.

I just dont want to buy something high dollar used that I can't use and get stuck with.

We run a 3ph converter on my neighbors mill and have had issues so I would rather not convert if I dont have too.

 

[jakemac]

Contact this guy on CL to see about a motor.
http://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/5525927504.html

You can ask if he'll take your 3ph motor in trade for credit.

 

[CNGsaves]

Here's idea of what brand new 2 stage 80 gallon 5 HP horizontal will run:

$1,799.99 after $200 discount (free shipping)
Atlas Copco AR-5
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Atlas-Copco-AR-5-80H-208-230-1-Air-Compressor/p63030.html

or Bel-Aire 338H for $1,799.99 also with free shipping
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/BelAire-338H-Air-Compressor/p4846.html

 

[tommyp]

Here's idea of what brand new 2 stage 80 gallon 5 HP horizontal will run:

$1,799.99 after $200 discount (free shipping)
Atlas Copco AR-5
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Atlas-Copco-AR-5-80H-208-230-1-Air-Compressor/p63030.html

or Bel-Aire 338H for $1,799.99 also with free shipping
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/BelAire-338H-Air-Compressor/p4846.html

Right or I could get a 60 upright for $1300.

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-2V41C60VC-Air-Compressor/p855.html?gclid=COL7qKjRyMwCFckehgodFE8C4g

It just seems like there is a $400 premium on horizontals that I dont really want to pay. I would rather keep it around $900-1200. I could buy the HF two stage plus another tank for $1300.

 

[md21722]

Harbor Freight significantly cheapened up their compressor. The much raved about old dual stage has been replaced by a single stage (even though they still call it a dual stage). When placing the compressor keep in mind that the flywheel should be at least 12" if not 18" from the wall for adequate ventilation.

 

[CNGsaves]

Nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . from Harbor Freight will compare to . . .
. . . . . . . . . that Champion for $1,000 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . that's the one I'd be looking at today !! . . . Good luck.

 

[tommyp]

Cool thanks. That 5hp champion seems like a great deal. Can someone discuss running a 5hp motor on a 7.5 or 10hp compressor. Is that a no go? I know there are a lot of big horizontals on cl but if I dont want to look at stuff I cant use.

 

[jakemac]

Can someone discuss running a 5hp motor on a 7.5 or 10hp compressor. Is that a no go? .

I don't know enough to discuss it, but from what I understand (from conversations on this forum) the compressor pump has a rating that dictates minimum and maximum motor hp and rpm's.

 

[md21722]

Cool thanks. That 5hp champion seems like a great deal. Can someone discuss running a 5hp motor on a 7.5 or 10hp compressor. Is that a no go? I know there are a lot of big horizontals on cl but if I dont want to look at stuff I cant use.

I would go with the 10HP one, and put a 7.5 or 10HP single phase motor on it. If you stick with the original motor size (10HP), you don't have to buy a new motor shieve (pulley).

That 10HP has the R30 pump and is typically used on 7.5HP and 10HP compressors.

The 5HP compressor has the R15 pump which is used up to 7.5HP.

If you are hard set on the 5HP one, maybe leverage the price down with a reference to the 10HP compressor ad.

Generally you wanted the slowest turning compressor you can get.

If one has an after cooler or other features like auto tank drain factor that into the price.

Champion & Saylor Beall make the best compressors IMHO.

This is a great opportunity to get a very good compressor at great price. New the 10HP is probably $5-6,000.

 

[Strouty]

You could always buy a vertical tank compressor, then take the compressor off and remote mount it, then make a wood cradle for the tank to sit in, DO NOT WELD TO THE TANK. That is an entirely different discussion.

 

[tommyp]

Awesome thanks everyone.

Not really in the financial position to hop on that compressor deal right now but this gives me the info that I need. I will also figure out if I want to run a 7.5hp. Thats going to draw a bunch of amps. I was hoping to stick around a 5hp. But may have to go bigger.

 

[sld961]

You have to look at the pump specs, but in general, if you put a smaller motor on a compressor, you can just get the appropriate shieve (pulley) to reduce the pump rpms. You just won't get as much cfm with a smaller motor. Again, this is as long as the smaller motor is still in the acceptable range for the pump.

 

[md21722]

For 7.5HP an 80A breaker is generally recommended.

For 10HP a 100A breaker is generally recommended.

These high breaker sizes are to handle the starting load not the running load.

For FLC a 7.5HP is generally around 40A and a 10HP is generally around 50A though actual current draw may be less. If the compressor is near your main break panel there typically isn't much issue. It's more of an issue if its in a shed or outbuilding that may not have big wire to handle the momentary motor starting load which may be 8X running load (which applies to any electric motor).

 

[jrobb316]

Just to give you perspective, I bought a 80 gallon champion horizontal off CL last year. 5hp motor, R15 pump, 1985 tank. Paid 750 for it. Needed a few things like a new gauge, check valve, small stuff. Bought a remote magnetic starter for it so I'm into it for less than 1000 and its damn nice.

 

[tommyp]

Yea i think that is what I am going to do. Try to find a 5hp champion at a reasonable price. Even if i can get a vertical I will pick up a new tank. I would rather keep it close to a grand. Still finishing up my shop/addition and money is flowing still towards that.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . . you may just be in luck.

Here's guy in Vermont with 7.5 HP single phase motor with just Make Offer price !!

http://vermont.craigslist.org/for/5573099983.html

Sweet talk him into $100 deal and get the $1,000 Champion down into the $850 to $900 range and you'll be set for LIFETIME air on the cheap !!

 

[md21722]

With a 7.5HP in Vermont you'll be able to run any 0.5HP air tool currently available for as long as you want... as the saying goes nobody ever complained about having too big an air compressor. Out here in Colorado air compressors are downrated for altitude up to 20% so a 7.5HP runs more like a 5HP... Cry now, cry once.

 

[tommyp]

Totally. I just dont have the power right now to go that big. Need to upgrade service to run something like that. Maybe can squeak by with a 5hp until I upgrade.

I first need to get my ducks in a row with my build and unfortunately cant run out today and buy. Money needs to be directed to getting the shop finished out. But this gives me a lot of ideas. I am to the point where I had to make the decision to use the dead space or just go with a vertical. Also it lets me know how much I need to upgrade my power.

 

[jallyn]

It would take some doing but a vertical can be converted to horizontal. Take the motor/pump off, lay down the tank, maybe tilt is slightly to drain, drill and tap for a condensate drain, then make a new stand for the motor/pump.

 

[CNGsaves]

Totally. I just dont have the power right now to go that big. Need to upgrade service to run something like that. Maybe can squeak by with a 5hp until I upgrade.

I first need to get my ducks in a row with my build and unfortunately cant run out today and buy. Money needs to be directed to getting the shop finished out. But this gives me a lot of ideas. I am to the point where I had to make the decision to use the dead space or just go with a vertical. Also it lets me know how much I need to upgrade my power.

IDEA: "Emergency" sale of 40 pairs of wifey's shoes !!! . .

If you get $20 a pair, that will put $800 toward's the compressor purchase !!

Get that nice Champion and just store it until shop is ready.

 

[Strouty]

For 7.5HP an 80A breaker is generally recommended.

For 10HP a 100A breaker is generally recommended.

These high breaker sizes are to handle the starting load not the running load.

For FLC a 7.5HP is generally around 40A and a 10HP is generally around 50A though actual current draw may be less. If the compressor is near your main break panel there typically isn't much issue. It's more of an issue if its in a shed or outbuilding that may not have big wire to handle the momentary motor starting load which may be 8X running load (which applies to any electric motor).

I did not realize they oversized the breakers that much, my 10 HP runs fine on a 60 amp, never tripped anything, the wires don't seem to get warm either. The inrush is pretty crazy, I think it was like 240 amps, but after that it goes to about 36 amps.

 

[md21722]

Motor circuits can have breakers up to 250% of FLC which is based on NEC tables (not nameplate) as long as wiring is sized to 125% of FLC and the motor has a thermal protection device (such as a magnetic starter with the correct heater).

 

[md21722]

Totally. I just dont have the power right now to go that big. Need to upgrade service to run something like that. Maybe can squeak by with a 5hp until I upgrade.

I first need to get my ducks in a row with my build and unfortunately cant run out today and buy. Money needs to be directed to getting the shop finished out. But this gives me a lot of ideas. I am to the point where I had to make the decision to use the dead space or just go with a vertical. Also it lets me know how much I need to upgrade my power.

What power do you have?

You could get the 5HP and run it at 7.5HP later, but if you think you're going to go to 7.5HP or 10HP later, you are better off getting the bigger one today especially since he wants so little for it.

Consider that even a 5HP would require #8 Romex or #10 THHN by the book... upsized for distance as needed.

 

[tommyp]

Not much power. I have a 100amp service to my tiny old built in 1877 house and a second off peak meter that runs my hot water tank. No real loads in the house though, gas everything except the water heater. As stated before I have a lot to finish on the build.

I tore down my old "garage"/ shed which was run on a 50amp sub off the 100 amp service. I didnt have much in the way of draw except my welder but it being a 210mvp it wasnt much.

I guess a pic will prob help. It is from a few weeks ago so more progress has been made.

I am temporarily going to run a sub panel in the garage then at some point switch the service from the house to the garage and upgrade to at least a 200 amp in the garage. I would then use the house panel as a sub. The addition is 30x38 but there is living space in the back so the garage/shop is roughly a 25x23 two bay with a 6' x 12' bump out into the stairwell. The majority of the space is 14' ceilings. There is loft space on the right.

I would run 6-2 to the compressor area just incase.

I do a bit of welding and like to build cars. I see myself doing a little blasting but nothing crazy. At most maybe a jeep frame or cleaning up axles etc. but I have a buddy who has a blasting shop so I have sent them out in the past.

I was thinking 5hp two stage would be adequate but maybe a 7.5 if blasting was happening. I just dont see myself sand blasting alot.

 

[md21722]

Much of the time mechanics need air tools in short spurts. Impacts may draw 37-40 CFM but only for short periods so you don't run out of air even on a small 2HP compressor. Air ratchets may also draw 37-40 CFM and tend to run longer, but not continuously or long enough to drain a large tank. Air hammer and air saws typically draw less than 15 CFM. DA sanders typically require about 14-16 CFM. All of these would run fine on a 5 HP but if you are doing a lot of sanding the compressor is going to run non-stop.

Most die grinders (0.33HP) tend to use 18 CFM at full load, or 25 (0.5HP) but there again many times the die grinder is not run for long periods when used for a quick pass with a Scotch Brite bristle wheel. If you have plans for continuous use of the die grinders, cutoff tools, drills, angle grinders, or sand blasting I would go with the 7.5HP - 10 HP.

If you buy the bigger R30 pump unit today and run it at 7.5HP, it will run slower and quieter than bumping up the R15 pump on the smaller to 7.5HP.

For your needs and wants I would look at both and get the one in the best condition. Because if you find that 5HP is not enough you can always bump it up to 7.5HP and you probably won't need more 7.5HP unless you decide you want to use air tools for everything.

I want to say you can even run the R30 at something like 455 RPM on a 5HP but I haven't been able to find the documentation. I may be thinking of the Saylor Beall 707 pump which really should be no different.

If this was my purchase, I'd go with the bigger one and figure out the details later. For one size difference in wire size and a $250 less asking price it seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[shelteredV]

https://www.eatoncompressor.com/pis...gle-phase-80-gallon-horizontal-air-compressor

I just got this one and it is awesome. The price is good, and the product support is great.

 

[redmondjp]

You have to look at the pump specs, but in general, if you put a smaller motor on a compressor, you can just get the appropriate shieve (pulley) to reduce the pump rpms. You just won't get as much cfm with a smaller motor. Again, this is as long as the smaller motor is still in the acceptable range for the pump.

Yup. Typically the minimum pump speed is around 400RPM. Another way to lower the horsepower needed is to lower the shutoff pressure. Yes, you can run 145-175psi, BUT you can just as easily run 115-145psi which requires less horsepower (and still works fine - a shop I used to work in was set up like this).

 

[tommyp]

well brought this little girl home today. Tank is shot but I have a 120g lined up just have to go get it.

Champion r15? I think. It was hiding just down the road and i ended up trading for it.

 

[md21722]

Good deal, but it doesn't look like any R-15 I've seen in the past 40 years. It may be a R15A. The wide cooling fins are the dead give away but its definitely an R something. I would also guess a replacement motor. Can you measure flywheel and motor sheave? Looks like they replaced a dual groove 1725 RPM motor with a single groove 3450 RPM motor somewhere along the way... If that tank holds, I'd run 25 feet of hose and plump it into the 120 gallon, and from there go to your FRL. That will eliminate more moisture than you'd ever believe.

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 that motor looks tiny for that big compressor.

OP . . why do you say tank is "shot" . . . is it rusted out ???
You can do a pressure test by filling tank with water and pressurizing with a grease gun up to MWP (max working pressure).

 

[tommyp]

Tank is leaking at the bottom. Rusted a pinhole through. 1964 date on it. Any and all help on getting this thing running the best is appreciated.

Motor

 

[redmondjp]

That is about a 3HP motor on there right now, likely from a consumer-grade 60-gallon single-stage compressor. You may want to look for a true 5HP motor.