HOT CA weather delaying my install GRRR

[bobren4]

Well, I had my garage floor grinded and tomorrow I am finally receiving my EpoxyGuard kits. I was hoping to have it done this week but the weather is not cooperating. 90-100F Tue - Fri.

According to instructions from epoxyguard, the air temperature should be between 60-85F. Now I am thinking of install early in the morning or late at night? The lightning in garage is pretty good so it should not be an issue.

Are there any possible issues with doing this?

also, the sales people at Epoxyguard claim their produc thickness is 10 mil. Are we talkng about 10milimiter (1cm) because that seems crazy

 

[Mlynch]

should be no issues other than lighting... Early ealry morning would be best because substrate has cooled all night.

Technically you could probably install the material in 90 -100 degree temps with the right techniques. Most likely the substrate temp is lower and that is more what you should be concerned with. If you keep the material out of the sun and dont keep it in the mixing bucket after mixing... dump out in a ribbon and spread right away you will extend the pot life in warmer weather... I have even seen contractors put their mixing bucket in a 5 gal bucket of ice to clow the reaction from the heat.

but to keep it simple early morning

no a mil is not a millimeter there are 1000 mils in an inch i think so 10 mils is roughly 1/100th of an inch.

 

[bobren4]

Sorry I am new to a lot of these technical terms

Does it "dump out in a ribbon" mean that I should dump it out of the bucket in thin line 5" to 6" wide? Should I dump the entire contents of the bucket? According to epoxyguard, the pot life is 15min and if dumped out it can be extended 25min for a total of 40min.

Man I need to be fast...

 

[Mlynch]

yeah just dump it all out and esimate where and how much you dump based on coverage rate. I.E. 250 ft a gallon try to dump the gallon evenly over 250 sq ft then spread.

40 min is a long time to spread something over 250 sq ft but i recommend having a helper mixing and dumping as you are ready to move on as you will generally have extratime to blend and back roll old sections if need be. Chances are with an average size 400-500sqft garage you will be done w/ plenty of time left over to make sure everything is even.

Make sense?

 

[Andy S]

Ehhh, i would hire someone. But, if you are going to do it yourself. Start at sunrise, keep the product in your house all night so its around 75 degrees. Your going to have to cut in the area as well ( go around the edges with a brush ). Its obviously better to pour less out, and pour more if needed than dump it all and not be able to work with it. Are you going to use a 10 mil squeegee or a roller to spread? 9 inch roller or 18 inch for back roll? Im in Phoenix, and as long as you ice it and apply early in the morning, epoxy is fine in this climate.

 

[bobren4]

The kit came one hour ago.... yay! It came with a Squeegee (has small nothes approx 3/16") and a 9" roler. Instructions call to mix smaller amount for cutting in the edges first and then do the rest of the area by pouring 8' sections at the time and then backrolling.

Roler is rather small 9". Can I get a bigger one like 12" from HD or Lowes? If so, is there a specific rollor that I should buy?

Also, I do not like the flakes that it came with, so I was wondering if I could just go and buy the ones from quikrete kits that are sold in HD?

Thanks guys for all your help!

 

[AlphaGarage]

You might want to check out an 18" roller. Go for a 1/4 nap. You don't want a cheap roller because they can shed, which doesn't look too good on your nice new floor. Wooster has a model - the "Epoxy Glide" that does the trick. Even with them I'd wrap a piece of duct tape around my hand, sticky side out, and pat down the roller before use to pick off any loose fibers.

During use keep an eye on the roller cover, if the epoxy on it starts to set up you'll need to replace with a fresh cover. Best to buy a few extras, you can always return the ones you don't use. That's a lot easier than running out and buying more while the coating is setting up mid stream.

 

[Mlynch]

If you wanna find and 18 inch roller locally try some of the professional paint stores. ICI sherwin williams... it is hit and miss weather they have them.

 

[victor07]

bobren4,

I'm located in CA as well,the bay area. I ordered my Epoxy-Coat and it should be here tomorrow. Your thread answered my question about the heat.

By the way, where did you rent the grinder and what type did you get.

thanks,

 

[04 Navi]

You could always stick the mix in a cooler with some ice overnight. Better cool than too hot. Good luck and yeah check with Sherwin Williams, That's where I got my 18" roller from.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

should be no issues other than lighting... Early ealry morning would be best because substrate has cooled all night.

Technically you could probably install the material in 90 -100 degree temps with the right techniques. Most likely the substrate temp is lower and that is more what you should be concerned with. If you keep the material out of the sun and dont keep it in the mixing bucket after mixing... dump out in a ribbon and spread right away you will extend the pot life in warmer weather... I have even seen contractors put their mixing bucket in a 5 gal bucket of ice to clow the reaction from the heat.

but to keep it simple early morning

no a mil is not a millimeter there are 1000 mils in an inch i think so 10 mils is roughly 1/100th of an inch.

You guys need to be careful who you are listening to. This is exactly the OPPOSITE of good painting practice for concrete. This is the most sure way to have issues with outgassing (Bubbles). The only exceptions to this rule are when you are using an extremely moisture sensitive product, heavy dew is expected in the evening, and you have a long moisture sensitive window product. If you have a high quality epoxy, you don't fall into this situation.

When the slab is at it's coolest it is also at it's prime to begin it's daily expansion that releases gas. Here are a few articles from people other than us. I simply googled "Coating Concrete Evening Outgassing" and these are the very first 3 things listed. It would be hard to be less biased than that...

www.prospec.com/uploadedfiles/Content/datasheet_Concrete_Slab_Outgas.pdf
This one says:

There are several methods available to reduce the
impact of concrete outgassing. The primary method
is based on monitoring the surface temperature of
the concrete substrate to which self-levelers are
to be applied. An increasing surface temperature
is a strong indication that outgassing will occur.
Therefore, shading the area or application of
self-leveler in the afternoon or evening when
temperatures are decreasing will likely reduce the
possibility of outgassing.

polyspec.com/Technology/PolySpec/TDS/PS300EX-TDS-0305.pdf
This one says:

Outgassing may occur due to the
porosity of some concrete surfaces. To
reduce the effect of outgassing, the
primer and coating should be applied
when the temperature of the concrete
substrate is dropping. This usually
occurs in the evening; however, the
concrete substrate temperature should be
measured with a surface thermometer for
verification. Double priming will greatly
reduce the effects of outgassing by
additionally filling the pores in the
concrete.

www.coatingsunltd.com/PDF/SecContainJPCL.pdf
This one says:

Sometimes it’s the details that make the big things
work—such as grinding key-in termination details
all around a new secondary containment pad and
applying the lining in the evening to mitigate outgassing
from the new concrete.

Good Painting Practice of Concrete states that coatings should be applied when the temperature of the concrete is dropping. This is a very basic and general rule.

 

[Mlynch]

Uh huh keep in mind this is a garage and the slab is not exposed to direct sunlight. If they start a coating by 6:00 a.m the window for outgassing effecting the epoxy will probably be out of the way by 8-8:30 am depending on the epoxy. This is not a signifigant enough amount of time for any signifigant substrate temp change. If they wanted to be on the safe side they could start even earlier but it is unnecessary.

In fact being outside of the direct sunlight there prob wouldnt be much of an issue all day other than the high temps outside shortening potlife. The substrate isnt going to have as much of a temperature swing being in a garage. Not a very high risk scenario for what Wolverine pointed out.

To get the most potlife and easiest installation I stand by what I said. Early morning on a cooler substrate and cool outside temps.

 

[Andy S]

Home Depot does not carry 18" roller covers. Lowes carries Wooster 18" rollers and frames, 10$ a roller and 20$ for a frame. Those paint stores are ussually more expensive.
Good luck!

 

[Mlynch]

I didn't think home depot carried the 18inch covers either but one day i ran across a couple cases of them there for a really decent price (about 4 dollars apeice)... I think it is just hit and miss and they are not popular so some time they are burried behind the other rollers.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

"Good Painting Practices" are the standards written by panels of experts that are accepted by NACE, SSPC, PDCA, NPCA, and almost every other paint society. These practices are written by seasoned professionals who have been in their field for decades. Anyone who gets an SSPC certification learns these rules. These practices will tell you things like, "Don't paint outside when it's raining." NOWHERE in Good Painting Practices does it EVER say that you should EVER coat concrete when temperatures are rising! In fact, whether in direct sunlight or not, Concrete will outgas when temperatures are rising... even inside of a building! This is why many industrial facilities are instructed to leave their air handling systems ON during the installation of polymer flooring. It doesn't matter whether you are in South Carolina, Los Angeles, or Siberia!

Another issue with starting that early in the morning is that dew/fog may not have lifted yet and can create a humid environment that could cause your epoxy to blush. There are alot of good reasons to follow the published standards and I'm not going to waste time going into all of them. The important thing is that you know the standards exist and obviously from my earlier post... most epoxy manufacturers know it!

"Good Sailing Practices" tells you that you don't sail a ship into a hurricane. And, if I weren't a meterologist that understood weather patterns and wasn't certain of them I certainly wouldn't be sailing my ship into a hurricane on the advice of someone who had little understanding of the weather, oceans, or ships.

Personally, if I were going to take someones advice that was directly opposite of the published 'bible' of painting... I'd want to know that they were more qualified than the people who wrote 'The Instructions'.

 

[Mlynch]

I dont know about his quality of epoxy but i regularly have 90percent plus humidity here in florida and we always start early in the morning and never have blushing issues... i have yet to see dew in anyones garage. Scare tactics or not he will not have any problems there isnt enough of a temp swing and we both know it.

That being said Wolverine is absolutely right about rising temps and outgasing.

 

[bobren4]

Ok... here is the weather forecast on an hour by hour base. The humidity seems to be increasing thru the night...

 

[bobren4]

Alright, all systems check, got two kits from EpoxyGuard, floor grinded, etched, cleaned and rinsed. Blue taped edges of the walls near floor. Got two 18" roller covers with frames and 4" brush for cut in.

Am I missing something?

 

[Itzkwik]

Cooler full of beer.