Hot Water Heaters

[Jeremy5431]

I was told by a Minnesota DNR Watercraft Inspector yesterday that I need to flush my engine with 120 degree water after use to prevent transfer of Invasive species from lake to lake. Apparently the regulations have changed from normal temp water to 120 degrees. I double checked the Inspector and it appears he is correct, and Yamaha says it is ok to flush the engine using 120 degree water.

My question is now - How the heck do I get 120 degree water into my townhome garage short of running a host to the kitchen sink ( my wife would KILL ME if I did that)?


Im not sure if I posted this in the correct section so Mod please feel free to move if needed.

Thanks

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

Can you run a hose from the outlet on your water heater?

 

[Architorture]

Hook a hose onto your water heater drain

 

[gayler]

If this is going to be something your doing often, you could add a hose bib hooked to hot water and mark it as " Caution Hot", or add an outside sink with hot and cold.

 

[cashishift]

Hook a hose onto your water heater drain

I'm sure he wants all of the sludge from the bottom of a water heater in his motor

 

[Strouty]

What I want to know is why are you heating hot water?

 

[Zeke]

I'm sure he wants all of the sludge from the bottom of a water heater in his motor

Well, there shouldn't be any 'sludge' in a water heater if it's drained under pressure now and then. Of course he could run the water free for 20 seconds before hooking up to the motor. The rest would flush free and clear by the time the motor was cleaned.

You could have thought of that. Might have saved a post.

 

[lilredex]

Taking water from the water heater drain is likely not going to give you 120* water....'cause that is where the "cold" water sits. Better to install another separate outlet (take it off the top) and use that, then use a thermometer to check the temperature........we don't want any more "things" getting into our water, from upstream.

 

[Strouty]

Taking water from the water heater drain is likely not going to give you 120* water....'cause that is where the "cold" water sits. Better to install another separate outlet (take it off the top) and use that, then use a thermometer to check the temperature........we don't want any more "things" getting into our water, from upstream.

Wouldn't you be "upstream"?

 

[lilredex]

Nope....it is pretty much all downhill from the Duluth area. You pi$$ in the lake there, we drink it later.

Lake Ontario is the last stop for Great Lakes water before heading out to the Atlantic, down the St. Lawrence River.

 

[EOC_Jason]

You should probably drain your water heater first before you siphon from the bottom to get all the built-up calcium deposits out... Like others said you wouldn't want to send that through your motor.

Depending on where your water heater is located, maybe make a tap on the top, or if you are going to have to do it often maybe run a separate line. Would be a good excuse to install a mop sink in garage.

 

[Strouty]

Nope....it is pretty much all downhill from the Duluth area. You pi$$ in the lake there, we drink it later.

Lake Ontario is the last stop for Great Lakes water before heading out to the Atlantic, down the St. Lawrence River.

Excuse my ignorance, just need to brush up on my geography a little.

 

[lilredex]

Montreal tap water really tastes great......now you know why, if you ever visit there.

 

[justsam]

Do you have other boaters nearby that also need to heed this "requirement"?

I have helped rig a portable heating device for a temporary baptismal pool. The basics of it are a propane tank and a tankless water heater, all mounted on a hand truck. You just run the cold water source into the tankless heater and use the output as required. Clearly you need to use it out in the open which I suspect you would be doing anyway.

If you got more than one boater together you could share cost, perhaps provide the service to others for a case of Pepsi or whatever.

 

[RECox286]

The best and easiest idea would be to add a "hot"

bib spigot to the outside of your house/garage

ideally located near where you put your trailered

boat when it is at home. Just make sure that it

is the type of bibb that the handle can be removed

so little hands don't get ideas. You will also want to

have a zone valve installed inside the structure, that

will be easy to get to for draining the o/s bibb for the

cold wx. Make sure to use a Stop and Waste valve

for the zone valve, so the water can be evacuated

out of the whole length of pipe. And don't forget, hot

water cleans better than cold water when it's time to

clean up the boat after being in the lake water, too.

(It's only going to cost you an extra shower or two to

use the hot water on the boat.)
Uncle Bob

 

[59 wagon man]

I would look at an external mount gas tankless heater otherwise your tank type heater will have a tough time keeping up

 

[Architorture]

Well, there shouldn't be any 'sludge' in a water heater if it's drained under pressure now and then. Of course he could run the water free for 20 seconds before hooking up to the motor. The rest would flush free and clear by the time the motor was cleaned.

You could have thought of that. Might have saved a post.

This.

I'm not sure what state of repair everyone's water heater is in but if you think any significant amount of junk is going to come out after running it for a few seconds you aren't keeping up on it well enough or you have a very serious water quality issue.

If the concern is the "cold" bottom water...guess what...the "hot" top water has to go out the drain eventually...probably right around the same time the insignificant amount of junk gets washed out by the "cold" water.

 

[lilredex]

This.

If the concern is the "cold" bottom water...guess what...the "hot" top water has to go out the drain eventually...probably right around the same time the insignificant amount of junk gets washed out by the "cold" water.

Only if you shut off the cold water supply and let it drain through gravity. Under pressure, you'll only get more make up water admitted, cold, at the bottom.

http://allclimatehvac.com/plumbing/water-heater/#!prettyPhoto

 

[Stuart in MN]

For those who are interested, here is the MN DNR manual for boat decontamination: http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/permits/lsp/decon-manual.pdf (it's about 4mb so don't click on it if you have a slow connection.)

I'm out of the loop on boat usage these days, but I thought this was to be done to the boat and motor right when it's pulled out of the water, not later on at home - I have seen decontamination stations set up around Lake Minnetonka.

 

[Professur]

Its worth mentioning that some tanks have a bottom fill while others have a top fill. A top fill tank isn't going to have much of a temp difference between top and bottom for very long.

Exactly how much water would you say you'll need for this job? Might be worth the effort and time to get one of those small 25 gallon hot water tanks, wire it up with a welder's extension cord and solder a couple of hose fittings to the in and out. Hook up the garden hose to the inlet, and wear gloves to hold on to the other end. Make sure your outlet hose is heat rated ... something like washing machine hose for example. When you're done, wrap it all up and store it away until next season.

 

[tractordude]

Excuse my ignorance, just need to brush up on my geography a little.

The top 1/3 of Minnesota the water flows north to Canada

 

[Strouty]

The top 1/3 of Minnesota the water flows north to Canada

Does the water in the toilet bowl spin backwards too?

 

[Architorture]

Only if you shut off the cold water supply and let it drain through gravity. Under pressure, you'll only get more make up water admitted, cold, at the bottom.

http://allclimatehvac.com/plumbing/water-heater/#!prettyPhoto

i understand how a water heater stratifies water in the tank although i strongly suspect that if you run your 40 gallon water heater set at 120 degrees through a garden hose you will probably notice that the temperature dips below 120 well before you ever get to 40 gallons. because the incoming water doesn't simply sit at the very bottom- it mixes with the other water in the tank.

your diagram gives a little evidence of this phenomenon. if the water remained in perfect stratification with no mixing, there wouldn't be much of a need for the upper heating element in an electric water heater would there?

so perhaps the OP should crank the thermostat a little an hour before doing the flush. but given that he is only likely looking for 5-10 minutes of 120 degree water...i think he'll find success with the drain. certainly if he is going to make a habit of doing this flushing at his home he should look into installing a hydrant somewhere convenient.

 

[Fishplate]

I'm out of the loop on boat usage these days, but I thought this was to be done to the boat and motor right when it's pulled out of the water, not later on at home - I have seen decontamination stations set up around Lake Minnetonka.

It doesn't make sense to me to do it at home, if the reason for doing it is to prevent interlake transfer of organisms. But I guess that's why you use the hot water.

Putting Minnesota lake creatures in 120 degree water would be like putting my local aquafauna in molten lava, I guess...

 

[kbs2244]

Can you not put in a 150 degree thermostat?
No water out of the motor cooler than that.

 

[ZRX61]

You're over-thinking this. Just draw a hot bath & then run the pwc in it for a while. Open the bathroom window to vent the exhaust. hth

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If it was an outboard, I'd say just put the lower unit in a garbage can full of water & let it idle. The engine itself will heat the water up pretty quick. Mine always did when I flushed it. IDK what to tell you for a PWC.

Tommy

 

[Hawk]

Get you a small on demand water heater to use just for this purpose.

 

[IlliniJeeper]

I'm sure he wants all of the sludge from the bottom of a water heater in his motor

The reason he has to flush it is because it's cooled using lake water and they're concerned about nasty things hitching a ride inside the motor. There isn't any "sludge" in his potable water heater that's going to be worse for the motor than running around in a silty lake or river with god-knows-what suspended in the water and sucked through the engine.

 

[Zeke]

Only if you shut off the cold water supply and let it drain through gravity. Under pressure, you'll only get more make up water admitted, cold, at the bottom.

http://allclimatehvac.com/plumbing/water-heater/#!prettyPhoto

Is that why I burn my hand when I use the drain?

 

[Jeremy5431]

Thanks for all the information.. The water heater is on the second floor and would require several extra hoses to reach the driveway. The tankless water heaters sound promising.

There are decontamination stations setup, however not every lake has them, and after reading that manual, I don't have that much confidence in their ability to decontaminate my watercraft without damaging it.

I have contacted the MN DNR for clarification on the proper procedure.


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[Art From De Leon]

Do you have other boaters nearby that also need to heed this "requirement"?

I have helped rig a portable heating device for a temporary baptismal pool. The basics of it are a propane tank and a tankless water heater, all mounted on a hand truck. You just run the cold water source into the tankless heater and use the output as required. Clearly you need to use it out in the open which I suspect you would be doing anyway.

If you got more than one boater together you could share cost, perhaps provide the service to others for a case of Pepsi or whatever.

That is the reason I always put off being Baptized by the Baptist church that I am/was a member of.

I was afraid of saying some very un-Christian things, after I came up, IF they dunked me in a COLD water pool

 

[lilredex]

Is that why I burn my hand when I use the drain?

Initially, that is true, but it sure doesn't last for long......before a Kitty Litter bucket is filled (about a gallon) the water is less than lukewarm from the cold make up water coming in.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Excuse my ignorance, just need to brush up on my geography a little.

Same way the Red River, that flows between North Dakota and Minnesota....... Flows NORTH into Canada and thru Winnipeg, Manitoba, and eventually on NORTH to the Hudson Bay.

I think the Red, not to be confused with the other Red River in Texas, is the only river in North America that flows NORTH.

Charles

 

[lilredex]

Think you really mean the U.S. of A......many of our rivers flow in a northerly direction....The Hudson Bay being a favorite destination, as you have noted.

 

[jhelrey]

That is such ****! I thought you just washed it off at the launch like I have done. If they asked me to flush the motor with 120 degree water, I would laugh. By the time I get home, etc. I have already transferred the ****.

Now, if you can use the hose at the launch and flush with that while your motor is running, you may get 120 degree water coming out due to the heat of the motor.

 

[sbosecker]

Same way the Red River, that flows between North Dakota and Minnesota....... Flows NORTH into Canada and thru Winnipeg, Manitoba, and eventually on NORTH to the Hudson Bay.

I think the Red, not to be confused with the other Red River in Texas, is the ?only river in North America that flows NORTH.

Charles

WARNING: SEVERE THREAD CREEP FOLLOWS

Charles,

Perhaps instead of "North America" you meant the "Lower 48 States of the USA"?

That being said, I'm not sure that even that is correct. I've hiked next to the Belly River in Glacier National Park, Montana many times.

The Belly River originates in northwestern Montana at Helen Lake, near the base of Ahern Peak in Glacier National Park. It flows north across the 49th parallel north into Alberta near Chief Mountain, in the east of the Waterton Lakes National Park.

In Glacier National Park, Montana - about 30 miles from Canada - lies "Triple Divide Peak". Triple Divide is, as the name implies, a peak where water poured on top it can run either east, west or north.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Divide_Peak_(Montana)

The Maumee river runs northeast from near Ft Wayne, IN to Lake Erie. I'd be very surprised if there aren't other USA rivers feeding some of the Great Lakes.

Best regards,

Scott

Edit: I see now that the "lower 48" thing was already mentioned.

 

[Rick Klein]

Hook to the hose bib of washing machine.Put a T connector in for dual purpose.

 

[wssix99]

How about a 5 gallon bucket with a tube and valve at the bottom? Just put it higher than the water intake and let gravity do the rest?

 

[Jeremy5431]

That is such ****! I thought you just washed it off at the launch like I have done. If they asked me to flush the motor with 120 degree water, I would laugh. By the time I get home, etc. I have already transferred the ****.

Now, if you can use the hose at the launch and flush with that while your motor is running, you may get 120 degree water coming out due to the heat of the motor.

I talked with the MN DNR watercraft inspection supervisor today. 120 degree water will will kill any aquatic invasive species in 2 minutes. I am allowed to flush the engine with normal water which will remove any AIS that might be in the cooling lines, but it won't kill the,



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