House fire

[Homoudont]

I am sad to report that my mother's house had caught fire this past week. No one was hurt, but the house was pretty much a total loss. I had just given my brother all my duplicate tools the month before, and he never moved them from the living room. Never even looked at the tools to see what I gave him. My question is, are hand tools affected by high heat such as fire? To give you an example, the only thing I could distinguish in the living room was the two craftsman tool boxes, everything else was melted to under 6 inches high.

I enclosed a picture to give you an idea of the heat involved in the fire. I am going there this weekend to cleanup, and was wondering if the Wrenches sockets etc could be saved and reused?

 

[Hawk321]

****...that's hard.
What is with a fire insurence???

 

[bmwpower]

Yikes. Yes, tools are affected by fire. Probably a total loss. If they had insurance it should be covered.

 

[Homoudont]

The house/structure was insured for the replacement costs.. it will likely costs more to rebuild the house then its worth when its all done.

In terms of contents, it was depreciation value not replacement value, so she won't see much money in that regards. Just wondering what intense heat would do to the tools itself. Would it weaken the metal to the point it was dangerous to use? Or is it fine to clean them up and use the tools as nothing ever happened.

 

[Homoudont]

The fire burnt pretty hot because my brother stored a gasoline can, three chain saw's, weed wacker, and probably between 50 and 100lbs of fertilizer on the front porch.

 

[Hawk321]

Depends on the tool. A Screwdriver will be destroyed, because the handle is not fire proved.
A wrench could be survive...make some pics, to give you more suggestions.

 

[Homoudont]

When I go in this weekend, I plan on taking more pics of the interior as well as the tools. I attached another picture of the interior and the orgin of the fire. The tools I gave him are about where the picture was taken. The picture is of the front door leading to the porch.

 

[Junkman]

Sorry to hear about your Mom's misfortune.
If they were Craftsman tools, you can try to warranty them. I remember someone here mentioning that he had tools in his car that burned, and he got them replaced over a period of time at different stores.
I can give you some advise as to the structure itself. Your mom absolutely has to hire an independent fire adjuster. What they will charge is a percentage of what they recover, but in the end, they will get more than the homeowner dealing directly with the insurance company will. They more than earn there commissions. Also, many times the insurance company will try to make a settlement rather than paying to rebuild. They do this because they know that the cost to rebuild might cost $200,000, and because of the neighborhood, and other factors, that the house will be worth less than that $200,000. Don't fall for this tactic. No matter what it cost to rebuild, it will always be worthwhile in the end. You are spending the insurance companies money, not yours. Where they will try to cheap out will be with mandated updates to the codes, and values of appliances, etc.. This is where the independent fire adjuster will work best to protect your interests. Before engaging the services of a fire adjuster, ask for and completely check out previous customers of the adjuster to see what there experiences were. If you get mixed reviews, then look for someone else. Don't rush into a contract, or be pressured into it by the insurance company.

 

[Skyline]

I would say ANY tool in a fire like that is a total loss. We are not talking smoke damage here. A fire such as what was pictured will easily reach 2000 degrees, rendering any tool unsafe for future use.

As far as replacement value vs. actual cash value (=replacement cost less depreciation) that usually comes more into play when there is a partial loss...like a room burned. There is a policy maximum for contents, (such as 50% of the total insured value) and usually when a house burns to the ground, the insurer is just going to pay the maximum without too much agruement or detail. But there may also be additional coverage (over the 50%)in the policy for "property of others". If the tools were still yours, this could be paid on top of the contents coverage. A lot depends on whether the coverage is a simple fire insurance policy, a standard homeowners policy (form HO3), or an enhanced homeowners policy, (such as what Chubb sells for high value homes.)

 

[kartracer23]

I sense that you're asking if the heat would weaken metal (such as wrenches) that aren't distorted or appear to have any damage on the 'outside'? I would assume it would lower the breaking point to some degree, depending on the amount and intensity of exposure. Just like steel beams in a building fire - they may appear undamaged but aren't structurally sound.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I promise, the tools are toast. They will look fine, but be soft as butter! I have seen it, so sad.

EDIT: Grab some of those tools and try using them, if they work great, I would love to be wrong!

 

[nissan_crawler]

They're junk, happened to my uncle's shop. You could strip the wrenches or sockets on a lead bolt.

 

[justinmc]

Sorry for your loss... as previously mentioned be prepared to fight with the insurance co. Anything dealing with ANY insurance company these days is a fight. There goal is to preserve their profits. The adjuster is there to try to get you to agree to the lowest settlement in the quickest terms. Alot of times they push the idea that you have no where to go, etc, etc. My neighbors had a house burn a few years ago and ended up coming out pretty "ok" on the deal. They rebuilt on the same location and were able to come up with a structure nicer than what they had due to current building codes, etc. The insurance company certainly doesn't want to pay to rebuild... but I'd fight for it.

As for the tools.. they are more than likely junk as mentioned... I'd talk to your brother/mother and make sure they at least compensate you a portion of their settlement to replace them. I'd almost think that since the property was not technically theirs it might be covered seperately although you might have to detail the contents, etc (should be fairly easy as the items are still there somewhat). I'd ask about that. Hey I just loaned (don't say gift/give/etc) these tools to him a couple days before.. see what happens. Its like if your car is parked at my house and a tree falls on it. My homeowners covers your car even if they don't cover the cost of removing my tree other damage, etc.

 

[rsanter]

I fought with insurance one time over the depreciation of tools. the stuff with the lifetime warranty I aregued that they are 'forever new' because of the lifetime warranty. they tried to argue to the point of what I paid for them new and every angle they could. I argued that they are not only forever new but they will increase in value because they will maintain the current value because they are 'forever new'.
they even tried to say that they are only worth what I could sell them for and every time they said that I just snapped at them real quick that I do not seel my tools, I buy more...
in then end they paid full price for the lifetime warranty stuff and depreciated the other stuff (majority was lifetime warranty).

stay firm and dont cave in

bob

 

[Frank Elson]

Like the others say. Stay firm and don't give in. My first wife worked in an insurance office and the guys in there boasted around the coffee machine about the people they'd bested.
So be prepared for a long battle.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

Sorry to hear about the fire.
Any idea the cause?

 

[Chris Adams]

Sorry about the loss, I went through that in 84. Also lost 99% of my tools in that fire.
BUT I want to tell you to not make assumptions based on peoples opinions here.

Tools in tool boxes do not usually lose their temper. Just doesn't get that hot. When it does get that hot the boxes burn.

You can itemize all the tools, takes hours, and then submit them as individual tools on the insurance. Since you probably bought sets you can see how much more the itemized tools can add up to...
Most insurance only pays a percentage on tools.
Check and see if the policy has a limit, you may be over it, in which case the adjuster will usually just take a picture you submit and pay you the max.
Even if they only give you say 25-50% (normal) amount for the tools, if you get a catalog from Sears, etc. and itemize them individually, you may easily recover more than your investment.

DON'T throw the tools away.
As I said, most tools will survive a fire in a tool box with only cosmetic damage. This you can clean off.
So 1. Determine what they will pay.
2. Itemize and document the value of each tool.
3. Submit the total.
4.Get the money.
5. THEN and ONLY then, clean up the tools.
6. Toss anything that's questionable. You will be surprised at how many tools survive.
7. Keep a LOT of spare tools, and buy the replacements in sets and save big bucks.
8. Ignore all the tales about weakened tools. Some will be. But you will know it when you look at them. Most of the ‘damage’ to the tools will be from water used to put out the fire. You may be taking ratchets apart and cleaning out the dried grease, but sockets, wrenches, extensions, breaker bars, etc. will be fine.
I believed everyone’s stories about the heat damaging my tools. I couldn’t bear to toss thousands of dollars worth of tools after the fire. The boxes were melted, the tools were in piles. So I stored them in old ammo boxes for 5 years, then gave most of them to a friend. Who cleaned them up and is still using them professionally today. NONE failed. NONE.
I cleaned up the rest after leaving them in the ammo boxes for 25 years. And am using them today. No failures.

 

[billymade]

Chris Adams, thanks for the anecdotal evidence and interesting to know to not to assume tools are unusable after a fire. I'm sure each fire is different but worth checking out! Thanks for the info!

 

[Jokeman]

Sorry for your loss. Your tools with be toast for sure.

 

[danc333]

First off I am sorry to hear of your mother's tragedy, and am glad no one was injured. I am a fire fighter and I would ask the fire marshal who investigated the fire if he could give you a guess as to the temperature in the room at the height the tools were at the time of the fire. It can be as hot as 2000 degrees at the ceiling, but it may only be 200 degrees at the floor. He should be able to give you an indication by the smoke line on the wall. I would then decide if the tools are damaged based on that information. I am sure it gets quite hot in the truck or container when the tools are shipped to the store. If you really want to know what affect the heat if any had on the tools you could take a sampling of them to a metallurgist for analysis. All I'm saying is I wouldn't call them a total loss without more information. Good luck.

 

[Abodyracer]

The house I live in is a replacement of a house that burned. The original house that sat on the lot was the old farm house built in the late 1800's. The insurance money my landlord recieved was enough to cover the demolition and foundation removal. He had owned the property for 25 years so his morgage was paid for. To build this new house he had to get another morgage.

 

[Frank Elson]

He was either underinsured or the company ripped him off.

 

[Abodyracer]

He was either underinsured or the company ripped him off.

Could be, but its really non of my business so I didn't ask him on that. He did mention though that most of the cost in demolition was asbestos removal (siding, plumbing pipes and ductwork insulation) and the lead based paint that was used on those old houses.

 

[Homoudont]

Finally got some pictures of the tools from the fire. Most of the tools I gave him where junk stuff I had purchased from a store similar to harbor freight. I gave it to him in a craftsman tool box that was handed down from me from one of my other brothers. All the screw drivers and anything plastic had melted and anything that didn't have a lifetime replacement warranty I just threw out.

Most of his tools were Husky brand from Home Depot. I sorted through and got all the Husky tools out and dumped them in 2 gallons of Vinegar to help clean off the rust. Then I got a scrubbing pad and some warm water and scrubbed them semi clean. Rinsed them off and coated them with some WD-40. One of the ratchets was locked up probably due to the screwdriver melting into the teeth. So I took that back to home depot and got a new one. The other ratchets I cleaned up, disassembled and lubed with Permatex engine lube. The ratchets probably work better then they ever did.