Will be getting service out to the man cave soon. Can I just run the underground service (150 feet) off the load side of the house meter to the 100 amp main in the man cave or do I have to put another main box someplace. Could I just run it off the breaker box for the house. Thanks John
House meter
- Thread starter Jeeptj1
- Start date
Grumpy365
Well-known member
I am confused.
You are getting a second service for the "man cave" or are you increasing service?
Your wires on the load side have to be sized for the load and the run length.
So if you are increasing service to the house with the intent of pulling the wire from the house to the " man cave" , you have to re run the wires for the new load.
I have 400 amp service. On the bottom lugs of my meter are lugs to accommodate braking it down for 2 runs (so each leg has 2 lugs). Right off of the meter I feed 2) 200 amp disconnects. One disconnect services the house, and the other one services the future shop.
My run for the home, the wire is sized for 200 amps. I can not give all 400 amps to the house without re-pulling the wires between my house and disconnect to be adaquate to handle the load for 400 amps.
You are getting a second service for the "man cave" or are you increasing service?
Your wires on the load side have to be sized for the load and the run length.
So if you are increasing service to the house with the intent of pulling the wire from the house to the " man cave" , you have to re run the wires for the new load.
I have 400 amp service. On the bottom lugs of my meter are lugs to accommodate braking it down for 2 runs (so each leg has 2 lugs). Right off of the meter I feed 2) 200 amp disconnects. One disconnect services the house, and the other one services the future shop.
My run for the home, the wire is sized for 200 amps. I can not give all 400 amps to the house without re-pulling the wires between my house and disconnect to be adaquate to handle the load for 400 amps.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Assuming you just have basic residential 200 AMP service, and your house's main breaker panel is 200 AMP.
No, you can't just tap into the load side of the meter can before your house's breaker panel. Because theoretically if you did you could pull 300 AMPS through the 200 AMP can.
You will have to check and see if your breaker panel will support 100 AMP breakers, some do, some don't. It just varies by manufacturer and the style. If it does, then you can put a 100 AMP breaker in there and run that to your man cave's panel.
If you can't, then you will probably need to put a 200 AMP fused disconnect next to your meter can. Power goes from the meter can to the disconnect, then from there you can run service to both breaker panels.
No, you can't just tap into the load side of the meter can before your house's breaker panel. Because theoretically if you did you could pull 300 AMPS through the 200 AMP can.
You will have to check and see if your breaker panel will support 100 AMP breakers, some do, some don't. It just varies by manufacturer and the style. If it does, then you can put a 100 AMP breaker in there and run that to your man cave's panel.
If you can't, then you will probably need to put a 200 AMP fused disconnect next to your meter can. Power goes from the meter can to the disconnect, then from there you can run service to both breaker panels.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
This is not a logical way to do it. Way too much work and way to convoluted. You'd need a small panel, NOT just a disconnect since you'll have two loads. You'd then need to convert your existing main panel to a sub-panel by isolating the grounds and moving them to new ground bars.
Like I said, this does not make sense to do.
Pretty much ALL 200A panels will accept up to a 100 or 125 amp branch circuit breaker. Just run your garage feeder off your existing main panel.
Do you really need 100A at the garage? What kind of load is there already on the house panel?
pattenp
Well-known member
Do you know all the technical do's and don'ts for running a feeder circuit to a detached building? Such as the type and number of conductors needed, grounding requirements, neutral/ground bonding requirements, etc.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
FluxCore
Well-known member
I double tapped my house meter 20 years ago and fed 200 amps to my then new shop via 3 properly sized underground copper conductors in PVC conduit.....Same meter also feeds my 200 amp house panel.
Neither the house or shop panel are considered a sub panel, and each have a 200A main breaker with 40 spaces...Both have combined neutrals/bares, and both have their own ground rods in earth.
But, I'm rural-not subject to inspection or enhanced building code.
.....Oh.....And I'm a former State Fire Marshal, so I'm aware of Code, but I feel very safe and sleep well
Neither the house or shop panel are considered a sub panel, and each have a 200A main breaker with 40 spaces...Both have combined neutrals/bares, and both have their own ground rods in earth.
But, I'm rural-not subject to inspection or enhanced building code.
.....Oh.....And I'm a former State Fire Marshal, so I'm aware of Code, but I feel very safe and sleep well
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Speedy Petey
Well-known member
I find it extremely irresponsible explaining how you are doing something generally illegal/non-complaint and saying "It's OK, I don't have to follow codes."I double tapped my house meter 20 years ago and fed 200 amps to my then new shop via 3 properly sized underground copper conductors in PVC conduit.....Same meter also feeds my 200 amp house panel.
Neither the house or shop panel are considered a sub panel, and each have a 200A main breaker with 40 spaces...Both have combined neutrals/bares, and both have their own ground rods in earth.
But, I'm rural-not subject to inspection or enhanced building code.
.....Oh.....And I'm a former State Fire Marshal, so I'm aware of Code, but I feel very safe and sleep well
Sure, if the load is typically under 200A (which it more than likely is) you are fine in that respect. The big thing is there is NO WAY to safely and effectively come out of a typical residential meter pan with TWO 2/0 or 4/0 conductors.
Grumpy365
Well-known member
He never said the meter was double tapped.
How about coming out of the meter with a single conductors on each leg into a gutter where you use lugs to brake it down to 2 conductors per leg?
How about bringing it into a disconnect that facilitates lugs on the line side that will support double tapping?
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Grumpy365
Well-known member
I see your point.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
I could very well be wrong too. 
FluxCore
Well-known member
Just hang in there friend, I'm sure if you take a few deep breaths you will get over it.
FluxCore
Well-known member
LOL, go back 40 years when my house was built and you will understand...My fabulous Square D meter pan has many offerings you don't see today.
If you open it, there is a lever inside that when pulled down halfway spits the meter out in your hand and opens all contacts...if you then drop the handle all the way down, it connects house to pole without meter installed....yep, free electricity.
On the bottom meter lugs in the pan there are twin female lugs for each of the three drops from the pole.
These twin lugs allow you to double tap legally off the meter...one tap went to house panel, the other to whatever......It's still Code and grandfathered in IF both panels are configured alike....as in if you just had a single house panel like today where 3 conductors feed it from pole drop-all grounds and bares are bonded, and the box is grounded to earth thru driven copper rods....just imagine that scene in parallel.
Yup, it's legal as an existing install.....The power company don't like it now-a-days cause they want all outbuildings paying meter charges, or ran 4 conductor with separate ground/bares as a subpanel.
Relax, Gents, it's all good
If you open it, there is a lever inside that when pulled down halfway spits the meter out in your hand and opens all contacts...if you then drop the handle all the way down, it connects house to pole without meter installed....yep, free electricity.
On the bottom meter lugs in the pan there are twin female lugs for each of the three drops from the pole.
These twin lugs allow you to double tap legally off the meter...one tap went to house panel, the other to whatever......It's still Code and grandfathered in IF both panels are configured alike....as in if you just had a single house panel like today where 3 conductors feed it from pole drop-all grounds and bares are bonded, and the box is grounded to earth thru driven copper rods....just imagine that scene in parallel.
Yup, it's legal as an existing install.....The power company don't like it now-a-days cause they want all outbuildings paying meter charges, or ran 4 conductor with separate ground/bares as a subpanel.
Relax, Gents, it's all good
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Oh, so you installed a common commercial bypass meter with dual output lugs.LOL, go back 40 years when my house was built and you will understand...My fabulous Square D meter pan has many offerings you don't see today.
If you open it, there is a lever inside that when pulled down halfway spits the meter out in your hand and opens all contacts...if you then drop the handle all the way down, it connects house to pole without meter installed....yep, free electricity.
On the bottom meter lugs in the pan there are twin female lugs for each of the three drops from the pole.
These twin lugs allow you to double tap legally off the meter...one tap went to house panel, the other to whatever......It's still Code and grandfathered in IF both panels are configured alike....as in if you just had a single house panel like today where 3 conductors feed it from pole drop-all grounds and bares are bonded, and the box is grounded to earth thru driven copper rods....just imagine that scene in parallel.
Yup, it's legal as an existing install.....The power company don't like it now-a-days cause they want all outbuildings paying meter charges, or ran 4 conductor with separate ground/bares as a subpanel.
Relax, Gents, it's all good
This is still legal today, depending on the load calculation and panels used.
What you described above is nowadays a typical residential 320/400A service, with two 200A panels. Except for the bypass part. That is for commercial only, at least around here.
Thing is, a typical 200A residential meter pan is NOT setup this way, and many people think they can just tap off the load side of an existing meter pan with additional conductors. THIS is what I was referring to as unsafe and illegal.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
^^^ Yeah, 200A cans these days they tend to mass produce as cheap as possible. I have seen some older ones though with the clamping lever. However our power company today requires cans with a locking ring style for 200A. If you pull one of those smart meters too, within a couple days a lineman comes out because they get auto-notified.
Yes, the 320/400A commercial cans you usually buy the load lugs separate and can choose whichever meet your needs (including double lugs). Likewise the lever will not only release the meter but also is a by-pass, they don't want to kill power to a commercial facility just to inspect the meter.
Anyhow, one BIG reason not to do what you did... If there is ever an electrical fire and they start looking over everything. Your insurance company will not cover the damages because what you did is not to code!
Yes, the 320/400A commercial cans you usually buy the load lugs separate and can choose whichever meet your needs (including double lugs). Likewise the lever will not only release the meter but also is a by-pass, they don't want to kill power to a commercial facility just to inspect the meter.
Anyhow, one BIG reason not to do what you did... If there is ever an electrical fire and they start looking over everything. Your insurance company will not cover the damages because what you did is not to code!
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Falcon67
Well-known member
I called my local utility and they came and did a 100A double tap off the meter base for the 100A shop feed. Nice people, even supplied the 6 breaker box.
Aceman
Well-known member
That's surprising!
The power companies around here stop at the weatherhead connection. It'd be my job to tap into the meter, supply the panel, etc. You're pretty fortunate if yours will do that for you.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
The power company in Houston *used* to give you meter cans many many many years ago. Now though, like Aceman, they stop at the weather head. They do make sure the meter cans are wired correctly, but most don't even bother to check the breaker panel.
Falcon67
Well-known member
I think it's the difference between being on a local co-op and being fed by AEP. AEP's pole is 20' from my pole and a world of personnel away.