House painting

[Aaron_W]

Ok, going outside the garage here...

I need to paint my house.

Older wood surface (100 years+), I think ship lap siding is the proper term for the style, well aged redwood.

I went around and knocked off the loose paint and touched up all the exposed wood about 5 years ago, but it is time to get serious and do it right. The south facing aspect gets blasted by the sun and is now in even worse shape than when I did the band aid job.

I have heard I am far better off going to a paint supplier like Sherwin Williams, Kelly Moore etc rather than a hardware store. If you agree with this, I'd like to why? What is the benefit, better paint, better advice, cheaper? They do paint so no issue dealing with them, just wondering why this is often recomended.


Locally I've got Kelly Moore, Benjamin Moore, Ace Hardware (Clark & Kensington) and Home Depot (Glidden, Behr). There is a Sherwin Williams 60 miles away (this would require a really good sales pitch).


I've got a fair bit of DIY painting experience and understand the basics, knock off the loose paint, use a good primer etc.

I am certainly willing to listen to advice on dealing with well aged and weathered wood. I really don't want to be doing this again in another 5 or 10 years.

Also giving serious though to buying or renting a decent sprayer. I've got a cheapo Wagner airless for smaller projects, but a quart at a time isn't going to cut it on a house.


Let the games commence.

 

[C2tuck]

We went with Sherman Williams because the paint was supposedly better and had a good warranty. Had it sprayed. Money well spent IMO as the time it takes to do it right would be tremendous.

I do have an airless sprayer though and would recommend one. There not too expensive...just have to make sure you clean them out properly.


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[jeffmattero76]

Pick up a copy of June 2018 Family Handyman magazine. They have a how-to article on your exact project.

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[Kaizen]

Doing my garage now and I got top of the line from hd and Lowes. Really feels like the special paint places’s paint. Ask me in 20 if it holds up. The wall I did with “2010”.... not sure if that is Moore or sh Erwin....is just starting to flake off now after 18 years.
I have an airless sprayer and honestly I am brushing this new paint on as I’m doing one side at a time. I really hate cleaning it so only use in big stuff. It’s the smallest graco at hd. Excellent machine.
Prep....start with washing it with tsp. Always start with washing it. We don’t have redwood around here so I’ll leave that to others as to the prep


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[ard]

I have a commercial account with Sherwin Williams, which makes there top of the line just 2x what HD or lowes charges. They are worlds apart.

Ive had 5-10-15 year exposures and the SW (and BenMore for that matter) fare far better than the gliden and such.

A few years ago I listened to a podcast about paints, testing, etc. Large lab (mght be Qlab, might be dupont), that does much testing. They also sell paint components. The simple truth is high cost quality components lead to higher performance and longer life. Painting a house you will flip in 6 months versus something you need to last 10+ years.

Comparing 'the top of the line home depot' to 'the top of the line SW' isnt comparing. HD doesnt make a paint that compares. Just my opinion, based on what ive seen, heard and read.

1. prep, prep prep
2. Sound substrate
3. high quality primer
4. Caulk and seal as required
5. Spray, brush, or roll. Kinda depends on the surface. If your wood is rough, perhaps brush in a good primer coat, then maybe a spray topcoat or two will work. But driving the coating into the pores, nooks and crannies is important. You cant beat spray for getting material ONTO the surface....Ive also sprayed then back rolled, (but obviously some lapped sidings you really cant roll effectively). Maybe a team- one sprayer two brush workers? Dunno

If you do go with a BM or SW, chat the guys up- they will almost surely work with you a bit on prices.

GL

 

[Cobra5150]

Sherwin has good sales a few times each year. I think we got either 30 or 40% off when we bought our paint last year.

 

[Cobra5150]

Currently it's 30% thru June 4th

 

[Stuart in MN]

Cheap paint is usually not a bargain. Personally I like Benjamin Moore, but Sherwin-Williams and other name brand companies make good paint as well.

 

[matt_i]

I like Sherwin Williams over any box store stuff. Also helpful is a local store. They do have the deals mentioned above and you should tap into them.

What I find is that you can buy paint @ retail pricing up to around $100/gallon. Sherwin Williams has roughly 10 price points in any given color. Slight break for buying 5 gallon pails.

sooooo along the lines of not wanting to have to repaint every couple of years I like the more expensive stuff. I have to also say that I would never have a house you have to paint....life is simply too short in my opinion.

caulking is very important as a prep, I like the Big Stretch brand because of its extreme flexibility. But again, more expensive caulks tend to perform better as a general rule of thumb.

 

[zoepop]

I've been in the painting business for 25 yrs, quality paint makes a huge difference. Sherwin Williams and Ben Moore are equal so with the distance of the SW store go Ben Moore. Use the Regal Select high build.

More important is prep. We usually scrape/sand then wash. Follow up with a high quality OIL primer then caulk. Now you can finish coat with confidence.

Be careful with sanding on siding that old, chances are there is lead paint. They have cheap testers. If lead is present just scrape, no sanding, then wash and prime

 

[yeldogt]

Take some pictures.

Painting old work is all about preparation -- no getting around it. At a minimum any loose and soon to be failing paint must be removed. Anything you put on top of failing paint will fail -- regardless of quality.

Both BM and SW make good paint --- Really like the BM oil "fresh start" primer. Also like the Regal line of BM .... The high build that zoepop mentioned is an interesting product.

Getting a full coat of primer is important -- the primer will hold on and the top coat protects.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you, and yes the idea is to do it right even if that is twice the price. I know there is going to be a ton of prep work involved. I'll look into that magazine, I'm not familiar with it.

I've helped painting a couple of houses, so I know the work involved and have not been looking forward to it. This is the first time I've done the whole thing from start to finish, planning etc and more importantly using my money to do it.


I can get some pictures, maybe even do a project thread if there would be interest.

 

[Parrothead]

I used Sherwin Williams best paint on the exterior of my home, and so far it’s doing great! It was their best paint. When I repaint, I’ll use the same stuff.

Do they have Rhino Shield in your area? It’s basically an epoxy paint for homes. A close friend used it and loves it. Her house is on the local commercial.

http://www.rhinoshield.net/residential/

 

[ard]

On the 'oil based primer' thought....

I used to think that, but recently the latex and acrylic stuff has gotten really good. One product to look at is Glidden Gripper. Really solid primer

A conversation that might be helpful: http://www.paintpro.net/articles/pp804/pp804-primers.cfm

Whatever you do, make sure the vendor is OK with whatever primer you use- while you hope NEVER to use one, I'd want to make sure the systems are compatible....

 

[Homerr]

I watched this guy's videos:
http://www.howtopaintahouseright.com/

Did a ton of prep per the above videos, then used Z-Prime oil-based primer, and then two coats of Benjamin Moore Aura which went on great. The oil based stuff would get fussy at about 75 degrees or warmer and became a no-go so I had to do it early in the mornings. That was 3 years ago, no issues.

 

[Aaron_W]

This is what I'm dealing with. This is the worst section that get the full sun from around 10am until late afternoon. The rest of the house is in much better condition.

On the rear portion of the house that is heavily shaded the paint is hardly aged at all.

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[Kaizen]

Can’t see pic


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[CraigStu]

I read through this thread and picked up some good knowledge. Then I see that picture. Are you sure you wouldn't be better off installing vinyl or other new siding?

 

[Aaron_W]

I read through this thread and picked up some good knowledge. Then I see that picture. Are you sure you wouldn't be better off installing vinyl or other new siding?

It looks worse than it is. The siding is actually still quite solid, it is old redwood which holds up well against the weather. The weathering is just
on the surface.

Vinyl or metal siding would be a good choice from a maintenance perspective, but the house was built in 1910 and we are trying to maintain that original look as much as possible. One of those issues where aesthetics wins out over practicality sometimes.

I think getting the prep done right and using a quality paint it will look great for many years.

 

[ard]

It looks worse than it is. The siding is actually still quite solid, it is old redwood which holds up well against the weather. The weathering is just
on the surface.

Vinyl or metal siding would be a good choice from a maintenance perspective, but the house was built in 1910 and we are trying to maintain that original look as much as possible. One of those issues where aesthetics wins out over practicality sometimes.

I think getting the prep done right and using a quality paint it will look great for many years.

100% agree.

FWIW...I did a few gables and cornices a year or so ago. While I replaced much of the rotten wood (and primered it, painted one coat BEFORE screwing it back together) there were a few ends that I repaired in place. (Like rafter ends behind the fascia- fascia getting replaced but cannot remove the rafters/roof)

Mechanically remove rot; apply 2 part liquid epoxy so it soaks into the remaining wood; apply epoxy wood paste/putty to recreate original dimensions

Vendors include Abatron WoodEpox and System3 SculpWood. (importantly you need the liquid 'water thin' stuff, which impregnates the wood fibers, and stabilized everything- then the thick paste stuff to fill gaps. I didnt use the super thick 'putty' formulation. I did the paste in two steps. You can level it with sander, rasp, and wood working tool.)

Fantastic results.

Plenty of results on google...amazon..youtube



Edit: you will work on those walls for a good 40-60 hours. But know that if you do it right, it will last 40-60 years...provided you or your heirs keep up on the painting cycle BEFORE it fails!

 

[Pen & Wrench]

Well, there's probably no man made siding that will last nearly as long as your siding has already lasted, and in fact, if its in pretty good shape it will last quite a while longer. Other than it's a pain to keep painting, I doubt you can find a siding that will last as long as what you already have. We used to Ace Hardware paint and had good luck with it. Last year we scraped and primed our cedar shingle siding of 1932 vintage, still in pretty good shape, and we sprayed it with Sherwin Williams. It looks like it might be the best paint job we have done so far, and it was really fast compared to brushing. This was our third paint job since we bought the house in 1995, and we painted it the summer of 1996. The time before we rolled it, but you have to put too much paint on to cover the shingles. Good preparation and spraying really made it a nice job for us. There's lots of good paint, and I think Sherwin Williams is very good.

 

[Homerr]

I'd look at renting one of these type of tools.

https://paintshaver.com/

 

[GarageGuy89]

This is what I'm dealing with. This is the worst section that get the full sun from around 10am until late afternoon. The rest of the house is in much better condition.

On the rear portion of the house that is heavily shaded the paint is hardly aged at all.

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I'm currently doing this same thing now. South side of house is about 8x worse then that picture, I ended up having to replace all the siding because of termite issues. Which is a shame because they don't sell cedar today like they did when the house was built 50 years ago.

I think we've painted every little thing in our house to date expect the exterior siding is the only thing on the house we haven't painted. We started with HD products and didn't know any better, and then we tried an actual painting supplier, Rodda. There stuff was light years ahead of the HD **** we were buying. Yes it is more expensive but well worth the investment. Goes on better, lasts longer, color looks better, and most of all they could actually match colors for us. HD had one hell of a time getting colors right.

If you get a good honest sales guy he will set you up right. We have a guy that has been working for them for like 20+ years and he knew everything, and all brands. He knew what all the builders preferred and what their feedback on each product was.

I will never buy paint anywhere else.

Plus, there stores have all the good quality painting supplies which I found to be much cheaper then the big box stores. Like brushes, roller, spray equipment, masking stuff.

As for sprayers, I would avoid them and leave it to the pro's. You get splatter on EVERYTHING so the mask/prep job just to get started plus the clean up of the sprayer is only worth it if your wanting to lay down several gallons an hour. Plus your supposed to back roll anyways so it kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[86turbodsl]

We went with Benjamin Moore Aura exterior. Sprayed. Amazing stuff, covered in 1 coat, still looks fantastic 7 years later. Expensive though.

 

[Aaron_W]

My dad just mentioned seeing something like that paint shaver. Another useful tool for the really bad spots. 80% of the house should be a fairly straightforward repaint, a little paint peel here and there but not bad. That one section up front will be the real test.

I'm really on the fence about a sprayer. They lay down a lot of paint fast, but so much against them with the over spray and the surface it is going onto not being nice and flat. Added to that we get a nice breeze most afternoons, so a choice of roast in the early afternoon sun or battle wind blowing the paint everywhere later in the day when it is more pleasant to be out there. Brush and rollers are looking pretty good.

I'm sure the redwood siding is old growth, probably the best siding material ever devised until synthetics came along.

100% agree.

FWIW...I did a few gables and cornices a year or so ago. While I replaced much of the rotten wood (and primered it, painted one coat BEFORE screwing it back together) there were a few ends that I repaired in place. (Like rafter ends behind the fascia- fascia getting replaced but cannot remove the rafters/roof)

Mechanically remove rot; apply 2 part liquid epoxy so it soaks into the remaining wood; apply epoxy wood paste/putty to recreate original dimensions

Vendors include Abatron WoodEpox and System3 SculpWood. (importantly you need the liquid 'water thin' stuff, which impregnates the wood fibers, and stabilized everything- then the thick paste stuff to fill gaps. I didnt use the super thick 'putty' formulation. I did the paste in two steps. You can level it with sander, rasp, and wood working tool.)

Fantastic results.

Plenty of results on google...amazon..youtube



Edit: you will work on those walls for a good 40-60 hours. But know that if you do it right, it will last 40-60 years...provided you or your heirs keep up on the painting cycle BEFORE it fails!

Was not aware this kind of thing existed. I will definitely look into that for the spots that are bad.

I stopped by the Benjamin Moore store yesterday to buy paint for the fence I'm putting up in the backyard. I didn't remember the brands you listed but they do have a resin product, I think it was called rot stop or something like that.

 

[GarageGuy89]

I'm really on the fence about a sprayer. They lay down a lot of paint fast, but so much against them with the over spray and the surface it is going onto not being nice and flat. Added to that we get a nice breeze most afternoons, so a choice of roast in the early afternoon sun or battle wind blowing the paint everywhere later in the day when it is more pleasant to be out there. Brush and rollers are looking pretty good.

Another thing to remember is that the sprayer itself takes just under a quart of paint to get everything primed. So every time you use it, buy an additional quart.

This makes small jobs hard to justify with the sprayer.

 

[ard]

I think it was called rot stop or something like that.

Looks like the same stuff, although you need the heavier stuff to to replace any missing volume. I bought the System 3 stuff on amazon.

It really is amazing... soft, partially rotted wood will just **** up the epoxy like water (the viscosity is almost like water) but then it sets and you have basically stabilized the material. It isnt just 'painted' over the surfaces, but rather the liquid sucked into the pores of the wood is now solid.

I like threads here that show me something I never knew about. Hope it helps!

 

[yeldogt]

I'm an old house guy and restored and rebuilt numerous old building -- my current project is from 1873.

As I said above -- it's all about preparation. If you want it to look as close to new ....only solution is to remove all the old paint. With redwood you must be careful as it can be easily damaged by mechanical scraping and especially rotary paint removers. Cedar as well .. old growth pine is typically the easiest to manually scrape w/o damage ... but care must be taken. I'm in the process of chemically removing the paint from my gothic windows -- time consuming.

Real rot can be stabilized with wood restoration products -- Abatron is the best IMO. I have used all the product they make for both wood and concrete ..... excellent products.

The mistake people make is they over use and or skim coat damaged areas .. all this does is trap moisture ... the enemy of any wood. Minimal sanding.

For the best results. Remove all paint and clean wood surface -- including in all checks and cracks. I typically vacuum and wipe with odorless mineral or Turpentine. Good full coat of oil primer over surface and into all the checks and cracks -- I like the BM fresh start. It's a question of fixing and filling the various checks and cracks -- many opinions ... but I find the "old school" oil based putty (Sarco) is great for filling checks and cracks. Push in and smooth out with your thumb. I spot prime after it skins over and put on two coats of BM Regal or Moorglo. The BM Aura line is very good -- It's noticeably superior for interior walls ... I don't see any difference in the exterior Aura over the Regal/moorglo line -- so I stick with what I like.

Filling larger holes -- something the size of your thumb ...can be done w/ an Abatron product -- Actually Minwax stainable wood filler is an excellent product if not too big and the wood is reasonably tight. Anything that's hard will eventually crack away from the wood fibers. Normally the Abatron is used on clean dry wood before priming -- same with a larger hole with a filler.

 

[Shiftless]

Another vote for the 2 part penetrating liquid epoxy sealer. I have been using it for over 30 years and although expensive, it is an amazing product. It soaks into dry and even rotted wood and solidifies making the wood much stronger and resistant to water. I then use a 2 part epoxy putty to fill in damaged areas after application of the sealer.
Tedious and time consuming? Of course! But decades later, my patches are holding up fine.
Here in the San Fran Bay Area you can get Smith’s Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer which is what I use. Elsewhere I’m sure there are equivalent products.

Must be applied over clean, dry, and bare wood.

 

[danscobra6]

Another thing to remember is that the sprayer itself takes just under a quart of paint to get everything primed. So every time you use it, buy an additional quart.

This makes small jobs hard to justify with the sprayer.

I have a decent 2 quart sprayer, 6' hoses. I chose to brush and roll 16 gallons
of paint on my house. Finished last week after 6 weeks of mornings but the result was great.
No overspray, cleaning the gun or taping.
I hammered in 1-2 nice coats on wood and block.

 

[Skiff Builder]

Aaron
I own the Porter cable tool shown below. I actually used it to strip smooth cedar side wall shingles on a home I bought. Prev owners did a **** paint job I wanted gone. Removed paint in one pass, left my cedar ready to go. It took me 5 hours to strip 5 square of siding(working off scaffold/pump jacks)
B.Moore oil primer than 2 coats Regal.I get 10-12 years until the next recoat,now with minimal prep needed. Best thing I ever did on a tough job.

It's really made for clapboards like yours. Uses carbide grit disks avail in different grits.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you, lots of good info here.