House Related Question (Brick Masonry)

[W2Synth]

I can't really think of any place better to ask a question like this. I can do basic homeowner maintenance work but the only thing I was really ever interested in when I was younger was cars. As a result I didn't pay much attention in shop class, and didn't learn much from anywhere else either. I just recently had a quote done on some chimney work for my house, and everyone keeps telling me that the guy is trying to fleece me. I have a few other quotes coming, but am a little concerned about the price (its about 3x what I was expecting).

I've attached some pictures, basically the reason I have initiated this is because of the chimney in my attic. In general I am sketched out about the chimney anyway because it has a witches bend and intentionally leans to the peak. There is a lot of moisture getting in around it so wanted to have the flashing repaired, and also wanted the chimney repaired as well as a few brick facings had popped off. The mason suggested making those repairs and then parging over the chimney (which he said adds a lot of strength, but the internet seems to disagree).

That aside wouldn't be much of an issue. However in addition to the work in the attic he says the chimney above the roof needs to be torn down and rebuilt. I had several people (who are not masons) tell me it could use re pointing, but even when I look at it it seems a lot more sturdy and generally in decent shape than most of the other chimneys around in my area. He quoted $2500 for this work. I know its difficult for anyone to really say without seeing in person, but I just didn't think especially above the roof line the chimney was in all that bad of shape.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[GMCGarage]

Do you use it?
If not, get rid of it and pick up the space.
If so, spend the money and have it done right. If you try and sell, you will have to do it then, unless the buyer and inspector are idiots.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... I see plenty of problems above the roof,...
What's below the roof will be fine, after the water leaks are fixed,....

 

[W2Synth]

Do you use it?
If not, get rid of it and pick up the space.
If so, spend the money and have it done right. If you try and sell, you will have to do it then, unless the buyer and inspector are idiots.

I just bought it two years ago - so maybe I fall into that category I guess! haha

It is in use for my furnace.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[W2Synth]

Ayuh,.... I see plenty of problems above the roof,...
What's below the roof will be fine, after the water leaks are fixed,....

I agree it does not look great, I had expected a re point but not necessarily a complete rebuild.

I do understand the notion of pay and get it done right, but right now is a bad time. I have the money to do it, but have other stuff going on that is taking quite a bit of time and money right now that I would consider to be significantly more important, and time sensitive than this unless the chimney is at risk of imminent collapse.

The chimney seems to be structurally sound when I have been up there checking it out, but again I'm entirely ignorant when it comes to this stuff. I just want to be 100% sure that there are no other options, even if it would last 4 or 5 years and then need to be redone before I shell out this cash right now.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[readhead]

If it is only for the furnace I would ditch everything from the attic floor and replace with B-vent or whatever is required. Simple roof repair and no more maintaining.

 

[73RR]

^^^^^what redhead says.......

 

[jconnor3]

For what it's worth, it costs me $1,900 to put an additional 4ft ontop of my existing chimney and place a SS cap on it. I had to do this because I put an addition on the house and the chimney was to low afterward. Either way, I thought I was getting raked over the coals and I got 4 quotes...$1,900 was the cheapest. The rest went up as high as $4,500 so i'm not surprised by your quote. I live in Indianapolis, IN by the way so it's not the most expensive town.

 

[W2Synth]

If it is only for the furnace I would ditch everything from the attic floor and replace with B-vent or whatever is required. Simple roof repair and no more maintaining.

So you are saying to remove the chimney from the attic floor, up above the roof line and replace with a B-Vent? I might be misunderstanding, or what not because I don't know anything about this stuff. If I am interpreting this right I would definitely go with that if it is an option. I doubt a brick mason is going to recommend that I do that though (future work considerations and all). Is this something I would need to contact an HVAC company about?

Thanks to all for the responses, this home owner stuff is difficult. I just want to be out in the garage.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[W2Synth]

For what it's worth, it costs me $1,900 to put an additional 4ft ontop of my existing chimney and place a SS cap on it. I had to do this because I put an addition on the house and the chimney was to low afterward. Either way, I thought I was getting raked over the coals and I got 4 quotes...$1,900 was the cheapest. The rest went up as high as $4,500 so i'm not surprised by your quote. I live in Indianapolis, IN by the way so it's not the most expensive town.

Where I live is probably a bit less expensive (I live in a tiny little town about 50 miles from the nearest city that is similar in size to Indy - Baltimore), but from the quote the mason would be doing a considerable amount more work it seems so it makes sense. It just took me by surprise, but I'm trying to make peace with it. Its the first (of many i'm told by every home owner) big expense that has caught me off guard with this house.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[readhead]

Not sure who covers what in your area but it would fall under HVAC, general sheet metal, chimney cleaning and repair or a GC.

 

[W2Synth]

Not sure who covers what in your area but it would fall under HVAC, general sheet metal, chimney cleaning and repair or a GC.

I just reached out to a few area businesses to check on this option. I'm so glad I posted on here because this possibility never crossed my mind. I would much prefer this to having to maintain a masonry chimney.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[rlitman]

I just bought it two years ago - so maybe I fall into that category I guess! haha

It is in use for my furnace.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Just the furnace? How much money would it be to replace the furnace with a higher efficiency unit that vents through the wall, and then remove the chimney above the attic and close up the roof hole?

$2500 to repair that seems like you're pouring money into the wrong direction.

 

[Jlbc212]

Just the furnace? How much money would it be to replace the furnace with a higher efficiency unit that vents through the wall, and then remove the chimney above the attic and close up the roof hole?

$2500 to repair that seems like you're pouring money into the wrong direction.

^^^^ this - there may even be rebates available to purchase and install a higher efficiency furnace.

 

[PAToyota]

Hard to say from just the photos, but I do see some signs that align with what the mason is saying of rebuild over just repoint. The problem is that water gets in from the top and works it’s way down. At that point it isn’t just repointing but putting it back together structurally. I would not go with parging it, though. That just covers up problems and doesn’t add to anything structurally. I would want a new cap, though. Personally, a sheet metal chimney wouldn’t look right to me.

 

[kbs2244]

First vote is new furnace venting through the wall and tear out the bricks.
Second is tear down to the attic floor and replace with metal.
Third is tear down to the attic floor and rebuild.

As said, you have inside the chimney water flow.
That is a rotten on the inside chimney

 

[Mustang1167]

I'd purchase a newer furnace before I paid for a 2500 repair to an ugly chimney. I'm dealing with something similar. My roofer is going to knock in the chimney when he does the roof ($100). I just replaced the water heater that used the chimney with a turbo vent out the side of the house.
Your money would be better spend upgrading then fixing the chimney. I'm sure you could remove that chimney below the roof line and into the attic and install a proper liner and vent out the roof.

 

[ctgoodman]

Put a cap on that chimney too. This will go a long way in keeping out birds/bats as well as water penetrating and seeping in from the top.

 

[W2Synth]

Much to the displeasure of the brick mason who quoted me you guys have convinced me to to go one of the two other routes. I'm going to get a quote to convert to metal at and above the attic floor. Once I have those quotes I'm going to determine if the price is close to what it would cost to replace the furnace and hot water heater. If it is then I'm just going to replace them with HE units and vent out the side as many have said. I'll make sure to update once the decision is made. Thanks so much everyone!

 

[Jhoff310]

based on what I see int he pictures I would suspect that the clay liner has cracked and failed. You do need to have some work on that chimney. If it were me personally....I would drop a new stainless steel liner inside that bad boy...having a furnace that vents thru the roof is damaging your chimney. The gases condense and the bricks absorb the moisture creating the white powdery stuff called "Efflorescence". I would then have the chimney tuck pointed.
Not knowing your location I would guess around 5-7 grand to replace the HWT and furnace with high efficiency units that vent thru the wall.

Thats my.02

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

I just bought it two years ago - so maybe I fall into that category I guess! haha



It is in use for my furnace.



Thanks,

Jeff.

Is the furnace a newer high efficiency furnace? If so you need a liner if that was a part of the bid that is about right. I wouldn't worry about the bricks in the attic, but I would recommend a rebuild, liner and a 4" concrete cap on top instead of a mortar wash like this

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[HomeInspector]

Hard to tell from the photo, but I don't see a reason why it needs rebuilt. Re-pointed, certainly. New chimney cap, one that isn't made of mortar and actually hangs over the sides of the chimney, and a rain cap? Definitely. And the flashing is poorly done, as you are aware since it leaks...

 

[Bill50]

I am a retired restoration tuckpointer from the Chicago area. I simple test of the condition of brickwork is to tap it with a hammer, if you get a dull thud the mortar is dead. If you get a solid ring sound the mortar is still good. You can also feel the vibration with your hand as you tap it. Chimneys get wet from moisture and when they freeze it pops the mortar. Also, chimneys with out liners tend to disintegrate from the inside. Never trust a chimney by leaning a ladder on it, or by grabbing on to it. The bricks may come out. Been there done that.

 

[TractorJeff]

Pretty much what Bill says.
I lived in a rental where they replaced the gas furnace and vented out through the wall. Gas hot water tank had to have a 4 inch metal pipe dropped down the chimney because a 6 or 8 inch masonry chimney will not properly vent a hot water tank.
Being that you are close to Baltimore, I would assume that you have Natural Gas or Propane?
I would replace the furnace and vent the hot water tank out through the wall, then knock down the chimney and fix the roof.
You'll sleep better knowing you didn't pay to rebuild a chimney that you no longer need!

 

[83hemi]

I am a union bricklayer I work in masonry restoration. From the looks of your pictures it does appear that you will need a rebuild. Like info already stated, you want it to have concrete cap poured. A lot of people use mortar and it does not hold together. Remember with masonry you pay for what you get.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

I am a union bricklayer I work in masonry restoration. From the looks of your pictures it does appear that you will need a rebuild. Like info already stated, you want it to have concrete cap poured. A lot of people use mortar and it does not hold together. Remember with masonry you pay for what you get.

Yes! A properly formed concrete cap takes time and effort. The biggest being that you have to come back the next day and strip the forms as opposed to putting a mortar wash on top and being able to knock it out in a day.

This is where it is difficult to compete based on price, my competition comes in at a lower price however it is definitely not the same job! But i have have to spend the time explaining that


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[theoldwizard1]

If it is only for the furnace I would ditch everything from the attic floor and replace with B-vent or whatever is required. Simple roof repair and no more maintaining.

Or if you like the "look" on the outside, have it lined.

 

[W2Synth]

Just an update:

I got a quote for converting to a metal chimney from the attic floor up, including a liner for the chimney below the attic floor down to the basement. Also that includes removing the brick chimney and also making some adjustments to the furnace/water heater because of the way they feed into the chimney (apparently they would now need to use the same connection into the chimney, rather than separate connections as they currently have). The quote was $1100 which I thought wasn't too bad. I did check on the cost for new HE appliances. That is $8000 so quite a bit out of my price range for now.

The only issue is that does include fixing/patching the roof. They do work with shingle roofs usually, but didn't feel comfortable with fixing the metal roof. I've been trying to call around to a few roofing companies but nobody seems to want to take on the job. I'm going to call a few more this afternoon and hopefully I can find someone. The issue seems to be that its located at the peak of the house. I didn't think of this being much of an issue but it seems to be.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[W2Synth]

So what would everyone's opinion be on repairing the roof after removing the brick chimney? As I said in the last post the HVAC company can do everything aside from repair the metal roof. That means I need to get quotes from roofers to basically repair the roof around the new chimney. I've had two quotes so far and they couldn't be more opposite. One was really low, much lower than I thought I would need to pay. The other cost more than the quote for the actual chimney. I am searching to get a few more quotes but am just wondering if you guys have a general idea of the level of work, or how they would need to approach the repair in this situation so that I am better able to understand what they people doing the quotes should be planning to do. I attached another picture that gives a better idea of what type of roof it is and the layout.

 

[readhead]

I would guess right around 900-1400. It will take more time to run around picking up material than to do the actual job.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Man- I thought a WBFP would be nice, like when we kids. I bought our 30 year old house 3 years ago. Never used the fireplace. This winter we had a leak, so I had the cap redone, water proofed above the roof line and tuck pointed. It was about $1000. At that point they also sent up a camera to inspect the flue tile and said it was not safe to burn in the fire place. They quoted $4000 for a stainless liner, $3000 for a coating of some type with 20 year warranty, or $2000 for a gas log set. The gas logs price was after I found a plumber to run gas line into firebox. So they were going to charge 2k for a $300 to 500gas log set and then connect with a flex line. - no thanks. I just said make sure the damn thing doesn't leak water and I'll skip the fire until I find a plumber to run black pipe.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Man- I thought a WBFP would be nice, like when we kids. I bought our 30 year old house 3 years ago. Never used the fireplace. This winter we had a leak, so I had the cap redone, water proofed above the roof line and tuck pointed. It was about $1000. At that point they also sent up a camera to inspect the flue tile and said it was not safe to burn in the fire place. They quoted $4000 for a stainless liner, $3000 for a coating of some type with 20 year warranty, or $2000 for a gas log set. The gas logs price was after I found a plumber to run gas line into firebox. So they were going to charge 2k for a $300 to 500gas log set and then connect with a flex line. - no thanks. I just said make sure the damn thing doesn't leak water and I'll skip the fire until I find a plumber to run black pipe.

$2000 for a gas log set? Your kidding right?

What is wrong with the chimney that warrants it unusable? Alot of the fireplace and chimney companies pay their guys commission and they really upsell stuff that isn't needed. I cant believe what people pay for stuff from those companies. For example if they see minor hairline cracking in the clay flue pipe they'll say it's dangerous and not usable without extensive repairs. If you look at new Clay flu pipes you'll even see hairline cracking from the firing process when they're manufactured.


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[Todd.Brock]

Hilltop they quoted the gas logs with a straight face. They said that some mortar was missing in between the flue tiles and that smoke could cause creosote and carbon monoxide could collect. They quoted chapter and verse on the NFPA or whatever code and stated it's not safe to burn. He said would one fire do it, no. But he couldn't / wouldn't speculate on how long I could burn. So - I decided it was a "luxury" and just decided to pay to keep it dry.

About your comment on amazement- I agree. I had three quotes. All said I needed something different for waterproofing , flashing , tuck ppointing, Etc. I can only tell that the didn't cut back the seal on the new crown so there is a shiny reflective tape visible from the street.

 

[padroo]

I built my own house including the brick chimney. I always had a water leak so I calked the flashing, seal the chimney cap. Had a new roof installed., ice shield around the chimney still leaked. I went to a local brick supplier and bought some stuff that was a liquid but had a lot of silicone in the liquid. Put it on with a pump up sprayers and back rolled it to get rid of the heavy runs and no more leaks in my chimney.