House standby generator.

[JDGolden]

I searched and found some older threads on this, but not too many with prices, plus I’d imagine prices have changed since.

For those that have a standby backup generator, what is a ballpark figure that you paid? I don’t plan to do any of the work myself, I’m afraid of electricity.

I have a 2,200 sq ft story and a half house with a finished basement (additional 1,100 sq ft). All appliances are high efficiency units. I am on a well and septic. I also want this thing to kick on automatically in case I’m out of town. We’ve lost power 4 times this year alone, and I’m tired of it. My previous house had a whole house generator when I bought it and was spoiled by it. I don’t remember the size, but the seller had installed it in 2003 at a price of $12-14k.

I submitted the free in home estimate form with Generac. I’m guessing I’ll need a 16kw generator, but we will see when an authorized dealer shows up. Am I better off buying the generator, then subbing out gas hookup and electrical work?

Any other brands recommended, such as Cummins? Looks like Generac makes the Honeywell units.

Going with natural gas btw.

 

[vette-kid]

16 send low if you plan to run ac. Ours was 27k. Probably overkill but you never had to think about what was plugged in. Previous owner had it installed and I believe the costs was in line with what you mentioned. Around 15k.

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[Backwodsurvivor]

Costco sells a 14k Cummins unit for 3 or 4 grand with the 200A transfer switch. I don't understand how it would cost $10,000+ even for a slightly larger unit plus labor.

 

[mm08822]

Getting costs is difficult b/c you have to provide enough details to fully scope the job.

Then there are labor rates, permit costs which vary widely.

Start identifying electric/gas loads, where xfer switch placed, where is panel, distance to panel, distance to gas supply, type of pad required, any load management needed, gas meter upgrades free?, distance from gas meter to gen, local regulator needed?, does any part of existing service need to be replaced?, moving grounds from neutral bar in your new sub-panel(old main panel), 2nd grd rod needed, replace existing gec?, is gas line and conduit to gen underground/ along house wall, etc?

If you sub out/purchase on your own vs. a single purchase-turn-key-system, you then own any start-up difficulties. One contractor responsible for all saves a lot of finger pointing. You hold his last payment until unit runs and is inspected.

 

[mm08822]

Costco sells a 14k Cummins unit for 3 or 4 grand with the 200A transfer switch. I don't understand how it would cost $10,000+ even for a slightly larger unit plus labor.

It's all about the details. mtls, labor, permits, etc. What's your breakdown of the costs? details of the job?
Nothing happens @ $0/hr labor rate.

 

[6PTsocket]

Central AC is the killer. I have a 7k (continuous) portable that carries everything else, including the well. When I bought it during a power outage that lasted for days, I knew it would not carry the central AC but it has no problem with two fridges, washer, dryer, dish washer, fans, and two big TV's and other assorted electronics. An auto installation is nice. With natural gas, I wouldn't have to worry about keeping it fueled.

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[Higgins]

Central AC is the killer. I have a 7k (continuous) portable that carries everything else, including the well. When I bought it during a power outage that lasted for days, I knew it would not carry the central AC but it has no problem with two fridges, washer, dryer, dish washer, fans, and two big TV's and other assorted electronics. An auto installation is nice. With natural gas, I wouldn't have to worry about keeping it fueled.

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We are in TN and will be installing a 20KW Gererac with 3 load share modules, on LP. Installing 2nd LP tank, and will do load sharing. Sized for 10 days with 7x24 operation

House is 2,700 sq ft. 4T AC, Heat Pump furnace, electric range, Stove, Fridge, freezer and other misc stuff.. NO WELL and we fit well within in the 20K

Everything installed is around $7,500

Will be installed in 3 wks.

AL

 

[JDGolden]

Thanks for the info. I've heard some major ranges in cost from others. Some were $5k and some were $15k.

And I've been looking at the Costco units, both Cummins and Generac. I'll update this when Generac sends somebody out.

 

[dcg9381]

Everything I read about generac - marginal across the board. I believe they stopped making RV units.

My votes are Onan or Kohler. I think you can get a Kohler 20kw for around $5k. If you're getting bids in the $10k range - that's a lot of margin! But install for an auto-switch means dealing with the main power feed, so it's a pain in the *** on existing construction.

 

[mjeff87]

I had my Generac 20K installed back in 2010-ish. It came in right around $9K back then, but I had to have some extra work done on my installation. My NG meter is on the opposite side of the house from my service panel and around the corner from where I wanted the generator set. I used the electrical contractor to do all the work (except the gas company had to come out and install a new/larger meter for me, at no charge). They tee-d a line off my meter, through my crawlspace wall, 90 degreed and buried it and brought it out the foundation wall on the back side of the house, up and into the generator. For the electric, they had to bury the service and control cables @ the generator, go through the foundation wall into my crawl space. From there, they run the whole way under my house to the garage wall.....they go through that, into conduit, up and over the ceiling into the opposite wall and down into the panel. The contractor had 2 guys who worked at my house for about 3 days to get all that done prior to the generator arriving, and they also built a pad for it to sit on. At that time (not sure if still), they were offering a full replacement panel with integrated switch gear if you purchased a 20K or larger generator, so I got a new panel too with the ATS built in to it. It does not have load shedding, as it was installed just prior to that requirement, and will run everything I have except a couple additional outlets I have installed in the garage. I also had them add in a whole house surge protector inside the panel (takes up 2 breaker slots), and an analog hour meter with a run indicator light so I could keep track of the engine hours. It does have a reset, but I just let it keep counting the hours. So far, after 8 years, I'm up to 168 hours of run time and it hasn't missed a single beat. Heck, I just replaced the battery in it a couple months ago. The original battery was still fine (it's sitting in my garage now as a spare for something if I need it), I just put a new one in it for peace of mind.

Not sure what all that would cost nowadays, though. When they did the load calc to determine generator size, they said I'd need an 18K unit. I asked, and the price difference between the 18 and the 20K unit I purchased was less than $500 total, plus I would be getting a new panel with integrated ATS for free....it was a no-brainer for me to step up to 20K. Anything larger would have been too large. My house is @2000 sq/ft, 3 bed/2.5 bath. I have gas heat, stove and water heater. My big electrical draws are the A/C and electric dryer (and my wife's 18 bazillion watt hair dryer.......)

 

[Jazzman442]

I live in Florida and have been looking into a Standby Generator for a while. I first bought into the need a really big generator to power the house and pool. I have 2 central AC units and 2 pool pumps. The rest of the house is gas. If I do the calc I need a 25 to 27 K generator. But after thinking about this the power does not go out that often. To run my house for a week I would burn over 500 gallons of Fuel. My tank is a 500 gallon. Then it dawned on me that I really only need 1 ac unit both refrigerators and a few lights and TV. That means I can get by with a much lower model. So now I am looking at a 10K portable or a 20K standby which are really cheap at Costo or Sams. Good Luck

 

[JDGolden]

Everything I read about generac - marginal across the board. I believe they stopped making RV units.

My votes are Onan or Kohler. I think you can get a Kohler 20kw for around $5k. If you're getting bids in the $10k range - that's a lot of margin! But install for an auto-switch means dealing with the main power feed, so it's a pain in the *** on existing construction.

I've had no bids yet, those are figures from other people that have them.

I'll have to look around for more owner reviews on Generac units.

 

[mjeff87]

I've had no bids yet, those are figures from other people that have them.

I'll have to look around for more owner reviews on Generac units.

I can't speak for other owners, but mine has been one of the best purchases I've ever made. We just had a 3+ day power outage here a couple weeks ago from hurricane/tropical storm whatever-it-was, the only thing I did to mine was shut it down once a day to check the oil. Otherwise it ran for about 60 straight hours without a hiccup.

I do service it every year (oil/filter change, new plugs, air filter). It self exercises every week as well, unless it's running due to an outage.

 

[Higgins]

The first question to any of these vendors should be:
> Who will perform any required warranty repairs. You want the companies name, and call them to see how they handle support calls!
> Where are they located?
> Response time to your house!!
> Do they perform 7 x 24 Hr support

In my case, the distributor is just down the road less than 15 minutes away. Also, they live in our general area. So support isn't a problem.

AL

 

[JDGolden]

The distributor for my area is about 15 minutes away as well. Good questions to ask.

 

[vette-kid]

I've had no bids yet, those are figures from other people that have them.

I'll have to look around for more owner reviews on Generac units.

Nothing but good things to say about ours. Ran quietly, self tested, always worked.

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[dcg9381]

I've had no bids yet, those are figures from other people that have them.

I'll have to look around for more owner reviews on Generac units.

I think this is just like HVAC. You've got two choices:
1) DIY and expect zero warranty unless you have a "dealer" commission the unit for you.
2) Pay substantial mark up for installing it, but have a warrantied unit.

 

[jeepxj]

Thanks for the info. I've heard some major ranges in cost from others. Some were $5k and some were $15k.

And I've been looking at the Costco units, both Cummins and Generac. I'll update this when Generac sends somebody out.

for the love of god dont get a generac. it will let you down.

 

[dan360]

Generac is a low duty cycle homeowner style EG. Not even "prosumer" categorically.

They've low balled the market and the marketeers at other quality brands like CumminsOnan have cheapened their sub 30KW units to compete. It's killing our ability to buy high duty cycle long term EGs for our work sites.

I went with an "old" 1987 Kohler Fast Response II 55KW from Ritchie Bros. It's on a towable chassis. 4BT Cummins. Square D transfer parts and some heavy duty cords. Came from a local municipality. 48 hrs on it.

 

[quattro_sinko]

I set my folks up with a 22K Generac that I bought online for <$5k. It was "free" delivery, included a 200A transfer switch, and had a 10(?) year warranty. They have put probably 50 hours on it since install last fall.

Generac emailed me a statement (pre-purchase) saying that they would honor the warranty even if it wasn't installed by a "licensed" electrician. (Licenses are not required in my folk's area)

It was a tricky install (as my parents live on a wooded hillside full of bedrock). The generator was only about 14 feet from the panel but included about 27' of trench with a pair (fuel supply and electrical) of 2" conduit. I did the sitework, poured a pad, and set the unit. IIRC, the electrician we used charged $1200 (all necessary materials included) to remove the old 6 circuit transfer switch and tie in the new system, I spent probably $350 in materials (concrete, rebar, conduit), and the Propane Co charged about $500 to supply and run copper inside the conduit and tie in the LP.


If I was bidding this as a supplied/installed job I would have been north of $11k, and that would have been cheap.

 

[macdabs]

Generac is a low duty cycle homeowner style EG. Not even "prosumer" categorically.

They've low balled the market and the marketeers at other quality brands like CumminsOnan have cheapened their sub 30KW units to compete. It's killing our ability to buy high duty cycle long term EGs for our work sites.

I went with an "old" 1987 Kohler Fast Response II 55KW from Ritchie Bros. It's on a towable chassis. 4BT Cummins. Square D transfer parts and some heavy duty cords. Came from a local municipality. 48 hrs on it.

I have installed several Onan and Kohler 80 kw machines and several of the 22kw home version Generacs. They all have their own software and transfer issues. But i can honestly tell you we have had more luck on the simple air cooled 22kw Generacs than the 80 kw monster machines. Not to mention the high cost of block heaters and overall maintenance on liquid cooled machines. Very few homes i know of need more than a simple air-cooled 12kw to 22kw machine .

Mac

 

[matt_i]

I was looking into this, DTE (old Michcon) told me I couldn't get a 20kW because the gas flow wouldn't support running both the furnace and the generator at the same time, if the outage happened during winter.

I suppose that's a conservative approach using the standard furnace BTU capacity and the equivalent max BTU capacity of the generator, because the 20kW was the one needed to run the A/C 16kW would be acceptable but not run the A/C.

I asked them about upsizing/reworking the incoming gas line, they ballparked $5k. However, had it been done at the time of initial construction it would have been on the order of $500. Something to think about when planning new construction.

 

[gtae07]

Are there any options for larger (i.e. larger than portable) units that use diesel instead of LP or natural gas? We don't have gas service at our house, and have nowhere to put a large propane tank.

I have a 5500W portable unit and some long extension cords, but haven't really needed it yet. I want to put in a transfer switch but I haven't gotten around to it in case we want to go bigger...

 

[dan360]

I have installed several Onan and Kohler 80 kw machines and several of the 22kw home version Generacs. They all have their own software and transfer issues. But i can honestly tell you we have had more luck on the simple air cooled 22kw Generacs than the 80 kw monster machines. Not to mention the high cost of block heaters and overall maintenance on liquid cooled machines. Very few homes i know of need more than a simple air-cooled 12kw to 22kw machine .

Mac

Wal-Mart is the largest retailer in the world. Doesn't make them the best. Generac is a low duty cycle low quality price point leader. That's a fact.

Mine is overkill but was substantially cheaper to purchase and operate than the little air cooled Generac model. I don't have the convenience of set it and forget it but a few minutes of pro-active "hey there's a storm let's go plug in the beast" means that within a minute or 2 of the power loss I'll have an abundance of clean, high duty cycle electricity for less cost per kWh and it will outlast me.

Differen't strokes for GJ folks. Glad you've had good experiences with installation and operation of the Generacs.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I was looking into this, DTE (old Michcon) told me I couldn't get a 20kW because the gas flow wouldn't support running both the furnace and the generator at the same time, if the outage happened during winter.

I suppose that's a conservative approach using the standard furnace BTU capacity and the equivalent max BTU capacity of the generator, because the 20kW was the one needed to run the A/C 16kW would be acceptable but not run the A/C.

I asked them about upsizing/reworking the incoming gas line, they ballparked $5k. However, had it been done at the time of initial construction it would have been on the order of $500. Something to think about when planning new construction.

Common sense would tell them that a generator that is designed to carry the AC load will NEVER require full input BTU (or even anything close) DURING THE WINTER.

Maybe their procedures say to add up the entire load and compare it to the service capacity...but that's nuts in my book. Also...the difference in material between a 1/2" CTS service and a 3/4" IPS service is probably less than 10 cents a foot.

Now...that being said...the bigger meters are a lot more expensive than the smaller meters. A 275 is about $65 and the next size up (415,000) is more like $250.

Phil

 

[trashmanssd]

I just got qoutes from 2 local companies for my business and my home. Work was 20Kw air cooled Kohler 3 phase and it came in 13.5K from both places not to bad and i am booking next spring. My house one I have to got meet with them on other options. I wanted diesel as I dont have NG and LP around here is impossible to get during a winter storm for a refill and I have 2000 gallon diesel tank at work I can use for refills in a pinch. The did load calculations on my house and both recommended 50KW kohler diesel and both came in at 32.5K. Well thats crazy I will deal with refilling a portable gas model for that price. I was planning 20-23K for 20-30 KW diesel but I may be out my mind with that price I will go see them and see what changing the size of the unit would do to cost. I have the portable set up to run furnace and hot water and kitchen living room circuits and its plenty livable thats way. I dont need enough power to have a party at the house running every thing.

 

[mm08822]

I just got qoutes from 2 local companies for my business and my home. Work was 20Kw air cooled Kohler 3 phase and it came in 13.5K from both places not to bad and i am booking next spring. My house one I have to got meet with them on other options. I wanted diesel as I dont have NG and LP around here is impossible to get during a winter storm for a refill and I have 2000 gallon diesel tank at work I can use for refills in a pinch. The did load calculations on my house and both recommended 50KW kohler diesel and both came in at 32.5K. Well thats crazy I will deal with refilling a portable gas model for that price. I was planning 20-23K for 20-30 KW diesel but I may be out my mind with that price I will go see them and see what changing the size of the unit would do to cost. I have the portable set up to run furnace and hot water and kitchen living room circuits and its plenty livable thats way. I dont need enough power to have a party at the house running every thing.

How did they come up with 50 kw?? Do you have the details of the load calcs?

 

[vette-kid]

50KW for the house!? Ours was way overkill at 27, most seem to be around 20 and$10-15k seems to be a rough average. You must have some unique circumstances!

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[Barn5]

I have a quote / plan showing 55kW diesel gen set. The new normal for an "at the service entrance/main meter" for an "every building on the property" concept it looks to be...

The new norm?

 

[jade97]

My house is a 3000 sq ft all electric ranch & the load calc was around 33kw. I got the 38kw generac (runs @ 1800 rpm vs the 35kw that runs at 3000 rpm). This is a propane turbo 4cyl. When it was installed, they did a full load test & the unit didn't even change rpm when loaded ...

Since March, when installed, with weekly runs and the 2 times the power went out, the needle on the 500 gal propane tank didn't move.

Not including the propane tank, your looking at around $20 k for this option.

 

[Bretny]

If you ask anyone with these home stand by generators from generac, Briggs or other cheap brand you should also ask how many hours on the unit. I bet prob not to much.

 

[dcg9381]

I'd be inclined to buy one of the clamp-on power monitors that are available online these days and monitor home power use. 33kw means you're pulling 140 amps.. That's a ton of power continuous - and that assumes that it's balanced across both sides.

I'd look at two things:
1) My monthly power bill - I'd calculate my average draw, just for grins.
2) Out of curiosity - sum your breakers in the panel (yes, I know they can be more than the total main) - let me know what that sum is.

Neither will help you find actual load of the house, but one might tell you that you are or aren't in the ballpark... Actually monitoring the power use, say for $300 - might save you $5000 off unnecessary generator capacity.


Look at "load shedding" transfer switches too. You may be able to turn off non-critical circuits under high load... Say oven, water heater, etc - these loads can be "dropped" if the generator gets near capacity - in some cases.

I LOVE diesel power also, but have concerns about a 100+ gallon diesel tank sitting around all year round. You'd need to use that fuel at some regular interval. Yes, I know it's not like storing gasoline, but it's not as easy as propane/natural gas either.

 

[clubairth]

I love the "facts" from all the Internet experts!!

Another Generac 20KW unit. 5 years plus with zero problems. What you will find is Generac is a better value so there are WAY more of them out there!

Try to listen to people who ACTUALLY have a Generac.
.
.
.

 

[Glaffer]

Subscribed cause I am looking too.

 

[crankshaftdan II]

1 & 1/2 year owner here of a Generac 11K unit on propane (2 1K Tanks) tests weekly and probably ran a total of 25 hours in this time frame (Winter trees down etc.) inital cost and electrican labor fees @ less than 5K$$. ***** a pretty fair amount of propane when running under load for 2800 sf home and 1500 sf garage if using all electrical lights appliances! Normal frige, house lights and fan on furnace and two showers a day not much. No central air in home or garage. ONLY failure was my own decision to use a a reg. lead acid battery instead of AGM (1 & 1/2 more cost) as vibration of unit busted hold down rubber strap and battery self destructed. One has to decide if you are willing to sacrifice convenience vs necessity as the cost & installation can be huge! I would say that Generac fills the bill for most applications--buy the more expensive diesel or high end units if the application warrants the cost??

Just my two cents worth

 

[dan360]

I love the "facts" from all the Internet experts!!

Another Generac 20KW unit. 5 years plus with zero problems. What you will find is Generac is a better value so there are WAY more of them out there!

Try to listen to people who ACTUALLY have a Generac.
.
.
.

We don’t know each other but how many hours are on your EG?

We can also compare skill sets and EG experience via PM. I’m doing an annual service on a 1986 Perkins powered Katolite 40KW at the moment. Tomorrow is a 350KW Kohler with Detroit power.

My facts come from real world experience. Another poster apparently also has EG install op and maint experience, and feels Generac are alright. Ok, cool. No venom as they say.

This is also GJ where people like to tinker and buying a very expensive commercial/industrial grade EG with low hours on the used surplus market for less than what a Honda costs, building one’s own transfer switch and auto start system, and running it for a few dollars/week, is of interest to many as opposed to paying new car price for a lesser quality machine under a pretty cover matching the house color.

Different strokes for different folks. No reason to belittle other’s so quickly, especially when you don’t really know them.

 

[yeldogt]

The installation can easily be more costly than the equipment --- my 20kw propane Cummins was a bit over 5k just for the equipment -- not including propane tank or lines.

Whole house units -- the kind with SE transfer switches have to be big enough to handle the house or be supplied with load shedding. That's the code now .... The 20k Cummins can control the typical 4 loads. It's cheaper to install a 20kw that will do the whole house vs a 17kw that would need load shedding. My AC units and range/ovens put me over the 20k. I'm never going to have it all running together ... but it does not matter .. code says I need load shedding. Going to a larger unit to eliminate any load shedding would have required jumping up to water cooled 4cyl and that double the equipment cost ..10k and more fuel use.

It was worth spending to get the whole house vs the dedicated panel -- dedicated panel was the typical way to do them years ago when there were fewer options in the home market .. and most were smaller. I have a 13kw at a vacation house w/ dedicated panel for essentials and one mini split.

 

[dan360]

Code. Ugh. Code is changing because some of our fellow humanoids are causing serious problems running too small of a generator and not understanding basic principles of how they work.

 

[jeepxj]

I love the "facts" from all the Internet experts!!

Another Generac 20KW unit. 5 years plus with zero problems. What you will find is Generac is a better value so there are WAY more of them out there!

Try to listen to people who ACTUALLY have a Generac.
.
.
.

i have a generac cause it came with the house. when it breaks I will go onan or kohler. generacs will eventually let you down. sooner than later.

 

[jeepxj]

I just got qoutes from 2 local companies for my business and my home. Work was 20Kw air cooled Kohler 3 phase and it came in 13.5K from both places not to bad and i am booking next spring. My house one I have to got meet with them on other options. I wanted diesel as I dont have NG and LP around here is impossible to get during a winter storm for a refill and I have 2000 gallon diesel tank at work I can use for refills in a pinch. The did load calculations on my house and both recommended 50KW kohler diesel and both came in at 32.5K. Well thats crazy I will deal with refilling a portable gas model for that price. I was planning 20-23K for 20-30 KW diesel but I may be out my mind with that price I will go see them and see what changing the size of the unit would do to cost. I have the portable set up to run furnace and hot water and kitchen living room circuits and its plenty livable thats way. I dont need enough power to have a party at the house running every thing.

What kinda electric 10,000 sq ft mansion with doors that don't close do you live in?

I have a 3,700 sqft house with electric oven, dryer, 3 AC units, a pool pump and a buttload of plug in ****. When everything is off at my house its pulling 900 watts.

Here is a random hot day in august. I regularly pull over a 100kwh per day.

https://imgur.com/gallery/fGicpm8