How big is my service? (PG&E land)

[ericm]

I'm served by PG&E here in NorCal. The GC who will be building my shop suggested that I call PG&E to find out how many amps my service is, so we can know if we'll need to get it upgraded. I called PG&E and they won't tell me what service I have. They said my GC needs to have a building permit, and submit plans and load calcs to PG&E and they will have an engineer determine if the service needs upgrading.

Is there any way to tell what the service is from looking at the meter? Just so I know if I have to budget extra for the upgrade.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I'm served by PG&E here in NorCal. The GC who will be building my shop suggested that I call PG&E to find out how many amps my service is, .

In your breaker panel there should be one breaker labeled MAIN.
The service rating will be printed or embossed on the handle.
I doubt whether PG&E lists the size of the customer's services. They would know what size transformer was on a certain pole if you gave them the pole number

 

[ericm]

My main panel has two breakers, both labeled service disconnects. One 125a which goes to the house and one 30a which feeds the well.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Then the service is a 125A.
The well shouldn't be labeled as a main.

 

[ericm]

They both get power from the meter- If I turn off the 125a breaker and leave the 30a well breaker on, the well pump will run (if the level switch in the tank signals it to).

 

[ericm]

The Green Book says they have 125a and 225a services but that's from 2018 and the house was built 30 years before that.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I grew up in Santa Cruz left in 2008

Can you take a picture of the Profit Gouge & Execute meter and post it here.

If the meter says TA30 and CL200 then its a 200a meter but no telling if the drop or meter pan is rated for that.

I doubt youll get any kinda answer without load calcs. Profits Gone Elsewhere is nasty like that.

 

[ericm]

I like a lot of things about living here but the way Pigs Grabbing Everything is run is not one of them. Here's pics of the meter and disconnects:

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I like a lot of things about living here but the way Pigs Grabbing Everything is run is not one of them. Here's pics of the meter and disconnects:

yeah thats a 200a meter.

and yeah im glad i dont have to pay them another penny for electric out here in the valley. Our MID (local Co-Op) rates are 11 cents cheaper in the winter and 6 cents cheaper in the summer than Profit Gouge and Extorts rates.... I still have to pay them for gas but $20/mon is nothing to thumb your nose at...

 

[Bert_]

I like a lot of things about living here but the way Pigs Grabbing Everything is run is not one of them. Here's pics of the meter and disconnects:

Pull the cover by the breakers and take a picture.

 

[bczygan]

Is it an OH drop or an UG service?

Wiring will tell you the capacity based on the service to the house.

But the transformer may have more capacity available.

Of course the POCO doesn't want to provide you with more capacity than you need, because the infrastructure is on their dime.

So claim as much need as you might ever have, so you don't get shortchanged. In other words, future proof the service.

For example, my house has a 60A fused panel and breaker panel with 40 and 30A breakers added later. The old meter was upgraded to a smart meter which is 200A capable but the existing OH service wire wasn't adequate for that. The POCO came through and changed the main lines in the neighborhood, adding pole mounted transformers for each 4 houses. When they did that, the capacities for each house could be more, but the existing small OH drops were still to small. Luckily, my drop was too short for the new pole location, so I got new 200A capable triplex.

So everything has to work to get you what you need/want.

Bill

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is it an OH drop or an UG service?

Wiring will tell you the capacity based on the service to the house.

But the transformer may have more capacity available.

Of course the POCO doesn't want to provide you with more capacity than you need, because the infrastructure is on their dime.

So claim as much need as you might ever have, so you don't get shortchanged. In other words, future proof the service.

For example, my house has a 60A fused panel and breaker panel with 40 and 30A breakers added later. The old meter was upgraded to a smart meter which is 200A capable but the existing OH service wire wasn't adequate for that. The POCO came through and changed the main lines in the neighborhood, adding pole mounted transformers for each 4 houses. When they did that, the capacities for each house could be more, but the existing small OH drops were still to small. Luckily, my drop was too short for the new pole location, so I got new 200A capable triplex.

So everything has to work to get you what you need/want.

Bill

Having used to live and work in Profits gone Elsewheres territory, i can tell you without a doubt that they undersize their transformers. So dont count on the trany being oversized

 

[Bretny]

I think what your contractor is asking is what's the max A that can be supplied with the current service wires. Idk why that matters though. Here we own to there the power company hooks in.

In my case I have a 200a pannel in a metal mast pole with 12in of wire hanging out. After that the power company owns. When they came and wired there part in my big wires hooked to the tiny overhead lines looked odd so I asked. They said its fine and it has been.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your drop from the pole should be sized for 100 or 125 amps. The Profit, Gouge and Extortion utility is governed by rules different than the National Electric Code but don't worry, they are going to soon be Bankrupt because of their failure to maintain their infrastructure.

 

[dscheidt]

I think what your contractor is asking is what's the max A that can be supplied with the current service wires. Idk why that matters though. Here we own to there the power company hooks in.

In my case I have a 200a pannel in a metal mast pole with 12in of wire hanging out. After that the power company owns. When they came and wired there part in my big wires hooked to the tiny overhead lines looked odd so I asked. They said its fine and it has been.

The power company is governed by different rules for transmission and distribution. They are, approximately, 'you employ engineers, use them'. They know your 200A panel is never going to draw 200A, and that the peak load will be for relatively short periods. They can size the wire so that it gets hot when the peak load happens, but the normal high load doesn't heat it up. Around here, the sizing is done by square footage, and in the absence of evidence of big new loads, they don't change the wires when the service size is increased. they will if they melt...

I have 6 gauge aluminum triplex hooked up to 4/0, which is pretty odd looking.

 

[ericm]

Here's a pic (below) of the inside of the switch box. Hopefully it tells someone something.

Someone above said (paraphrasing) that it's no worry, the power co will update their side. Hahaha! In PG&E land that is true, but the customer pays for it.

 

[Bert_]

Kinda looks 150-200 rated but can't say for sure without a label and wire size on the line side.

 

[pvanderlugt]

Here's a pic (below) of the inside of the switch box. Hopefully it tells someone something.

Someone above said (paraphrasing) that it's no worry, the power co will update their side. Hahaha! In PG&E land that is true, but the customer pays for it.

Hmm wonder where those wires for the 30 amp breaker come from, specially when they stay hot with the “main “turned Off...

 

[Bert_]

Hmm wonder where those wires for the 30 amp breaker come from, specially when they stay hot with the “main “turned Off...

They are both "mains". It's perfectly normal. You're allowed up to 6

 

[HighLinerMI]

Must be an OH service?

 

[ericm]

I'm not sure how to classify it. There's an overhead line from the transformer to a pole about 8' away from the meter. The wires go underground between the pole and meter.

 

[kaffine]

Hmm wonder where those wires for the 30 amp breaker come from, specially when they stay hot with the “main “turned Off...

They come from the well or go to the well from the breaker. The breaker is getting power from the bus bar not the wires. The bus bar is getting power from the meter.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hmm wonder where those wires for the 30 amp breaker come from, specially when they stay hot with the “main “turned Off...

Try looking a little closer.

There is no single main breaker here. It is a multispace combination main service panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'm not sure how to classify it. There's an overhead line from the transformer to a pole about 8' away from the meter. The wires go underground between the pole and meter.

Sounds like it was overhead at one time and was half *** converted to underground...

 

[pvanderlugt]

Try looking a little closer.

There is no single main breaker here. It is a multispace combination main service panel.

Yup, did not have my thinking cap on...... never seen one like that before, but then again I am not an electrician... thanks for setting me straight..
Pete

 

[ericm]

Two more questions:

What's the capacity of the next smaller meter normally used by PG&E?

If there are 125a and 30a main breakers, does that mean the service is at least 155a?

 

[83VillageRepair]

Two more questions:

What's the capacity of the next smaller meter normally used by PG&E?

If there are 125a and 30a main breakers, does that mean the service is at least 155a?

That is a 200Amp meter as mentioned before. There is no smaller meter anymore but that doesn't mean your service is sized for 200 amps. The size of the transformer and the service conductors feeding the meter will tell you what the service was sized for. Be aware the rules of the NEC do not apply on the utility side of the meter. The NESC is the code that applies there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That is a 200Amp meter as mentioned before. There is no smaller meter anymore but that doesn't mean your service is sized for 200 amps. The size of the transformer and the service conductors feeding the meter will tell you what the service was sized for. Be aware the rules of the NEC do NOT apply on the utility side of the meter. The NESC is the code that applies there.

fixed it for ya

And Profit Gouge and Execute undersizes their pole pigs so i wouldnt gauge the service by the size of the trany.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Be aware the rules of the NEC do apply on the utility side of the meter. The NESC is the code that applies there.

On an overhead service like this, the NEC applies up to the point of attachment, not the meter.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

On an overhead service like this, the NEC applies up to the point of attachment, not the meter.

OPs service is underground per post #21

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Two more questions:

What's the capacity of the next smaller meter normally used by PG&E?

If there are 125a and 30a main breakers, does that mean the service is at least 155a?

PG&E doesnt bother with smaller rated meters anymore. A 100a service gets a CL200 (200a meter)....

 

[alfredeneuman]

OPs service is underground per post#21

I didn't see that until you pointed it out. Thanks

 

[83VillageRepair]

fixed it for ya

And Profit Gouge and Execute undersizes their pole pigs so i wouldnt gauge the service by the size of the trany.

Thanks for that! Left out the most important word. I edited my original post, certainly don't want to cause any confusion.

Many Investor owned utilities use 7kVA per meter as a rule of thumb knowing that liquid filled transformers are very robust and can be repeatedly overloaded. Unfortunately the customers gets low voltage out of the deal.

 

[Bert_]

Two more questions:

What's the capacity of the next smaller meter normally used by PG&E?

If there are 125a and 30a main breakers, does that mean the service is at least 155a?

Nope. Could be as small as 125A, could be larger. In this case the service size is dictated by the size of the wire and the equipment rating.

Multiple mains can and often do add up to more than the service rating.