How can I find where these wires are connected?

[Gigem]

The house we bought recently has 6 pairs of speakers installed in various places in the ceiling. Problem is, whoever ran the speaker wires joined them all together somewhere in the walls or ceiling. So instead of having 24 wires at the spot where they all terminate (2 for each speaker), I just have 8. He grouped the speakers into two groups. Four on one group and two on the other. I have 4 wires for each group. Make sense?

Problem is that wiring speakers this way is stupid. Too much resistance. Doesn't work with modern stereo equipment, they sense the load and shut down.

I've been up in the attic to see if I could see where 24 were bundled into 8, and couldn't see it. I got a borescope to look into the wall where the 8 come out, can't see anything...

Before I just start cutting up walls, I wondered if there was a better way? Is there some sort of tracer or signal generator I could attach to the speaker end of a wire, then a sensing device that would let me walk through the house and "detect" where the wire is running? My thought is that I could do this and hone in on the spot where they all converge...

Any other ideas?

I really don't want to run all new wires...

 

[nh_yota]

They are probably spliced near one of the speakers. I would start dropping them from the ceiling and poking around. He may have daisy chained them.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

I'd look nearest each speaker set for this connection....it wouldn't make sense to connect them very far down the line. Pop a pair open in the ceiling from this side and it should be nearby.

If you're wanting to wire each speaker individually, you could then cut those wires and use them as a fish line....cut, attach new wires, pull, rinse, repeat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[kTHREE]

You sure these aren't 70V speakers?

 

[nh_yota]

You sure these aren't 70V speakers?

Good point - if so each speaker will have a transformer attached to it.

 

[TRWham]

Google tone generator and probe.

 

[Steve.S]

I use this model of tone and probe...works great.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FFIJF8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Innovate1]

If you aren't able to find the splices at the speakers and you suspect it is buried somewhere in a ceiling then a time domain reflectometer (TDR) might save you some holes in things. Basically put a pulse down the wires and measure time to a reflection of the pulse where the change in impedance from multiple wires connected is. They make equipment specifically for this but an oscilloscope and a signal generator can be used. It doesn't work well on really short runs but gives a pretty good location on longer runs.

This shows using coaxial cable but it also works for other cable types. May work best if you unhook the speakers.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/projects/build-your-own-time-domain-reflectometer/

If you know someone with the equipment it's worth a shot. I have found a few things that way. If you don't have access to the equipment then you will have to resort to other things...

 

[chinboys]

I would twist the ends of the pairs together and use an Ohm meter at the ceiling locations to figure out what is what and any other dependencies this "circuit" has. Don't have meter..., use a 1.5 volt battery or 9 volt and make flashlight circuit to figure out the wiring.

You may decide to abandon the existing setup and just run new speaker wires to the locations where you want stereo or surround sound doby use.
Or use them bluetooth or wifi speakers instead.

 

[Gigem]

Thanks for the tips guys, I think I will pull some speakers first. Definitely not 70V speakers... That was my first thought too...

 

[LXCam]

Google tone generator and probe.

I use this model of tone and probe...works great.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FFIJF8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Like these guys suggested get yourself a tone generator and the inductive pickup tool. This will make tracing it down pretty fast. If you have a buddy who is a telephone guy, maybe borrow his.

Here's a cheap one that work fine for your needs. Plus if you ever do any trouble shooting for home wiring, car, whatever they come in handy. Just remember you can't use this on an energized line.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5K1W2B/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Barnabas]

I think you meant to say that is possible this was wired with "too little resistance" not too much. Too much resistance, actually impedance, is never a problem for the ampilfier.

It is posible that the speakers are not wired in parallel, but might be in series or a series/parallel combination. That could bring the total impedance of each run closer to 8 ohms.

Try connecting a stereo to one pair of wires and see what works. At a low volume, the amplifier can withstand a huge impedance mismatch. Then try disconnecting a speaker and see if any others go out at the same time.

If you open each speaker, you might see how the connections are made.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

If you know any telephone installers ask them to borrow a tone generator and probe as others have mentioned. The voltage meter using the ohm setting as others have mentioned work work as well. Do one at a time short out or cross the leads at one end and see which one shows a reading. But make sure that all are open or no reading to begin with.

 

[LXCam]

I forgot to mention the best part about using the tone generator on speakers. You can hear which ones are tied together so it makes for a quick ID and you don't need to deal with the stereo connections.

 

[CoogarXR]

As others have said, they probably are chained. It wouldn't make sense to "almost home-run" them. They probably ran a drop from the stereo rack to the nearest speaker, and from that speaker to the next, etc.

Unless there was a previous location for the stereo rack, and it got moved. There might be a wad in the wall there, lol.

 

[Gigem]

Thanks again all! A couple more comments before I start digging in...

1. This house was extensively remodeled. Down to the studs. These speakers were put in at that time.

2. Each pair of speakers has it's own volume control, mounted in the wall near the speaker pair.

3. When I asked the guy I bought the house from about this, all he could tell me is that he had the guy who prewired the house for a security system also wire these speakers.

So if these things give anyone more clues on how this might have been wired, I'd love to hear your guesses. I have a feeling I am going to have to rewire the whole dang thing

 

[shelteredV]

Even more simple- tie a pair of wires to an old speaker, on the other end use a C battery and touch the pairs to both ends of the battery and it will make the speaker "pop" loud enough to hear a ways away