How do you calculate DIY vs. hiring someone?

[sberry]

It's what I do. But if I won a lucky lotto you would hear my tools hit the floor, make 2 calls, one to car dealer and one to the crusher.

 

[LeonardY]

The 'calculation' isn't about dollars, it's about time value.

That's it!

I hired a contractor to do my master bath. He's a really good friend. I know that he isn't the cheapest but why would I want that. I know that he will do what's right. He knows that I can do the work myself.

It came down to. I needed the bathroom done and the only time I would have is the weekends. Unless I was using my vacation time. So for me that was a no brainer.

Hire someone.

I did weed my entire yard myself. But I've hired guys to do that too.

 

[sberry]

How much is it? You understand,,, I would do it myself other than I don't have the tools or know how,,,, other than that I would do it myself you understand?

 

[Jazz1]

Tough to save any money trying to haul aggregate or stone in a pickup since trucks today are so feeble with their minimal payloads. #trips, overloading, wear and tear.
Some things I hire out...last year it was roofing the house and garage. $3000 labour total and all done and cleaned up the same day...fine by me

 

[jpcjguy]

So it appears that time (savings), desire (want to - or more often don't want to), and lastly expertise (quality of work - mixed with having proper tools) are the primary deciding factors in doing a job vs. hiring out by everyone.

My original intent of the thread was more from an basic economic standpoint - while removing the "what is your time worth" factor as that is too variable.

When looking at a particular job that, for the sake of an example, is:
1) One you could go either way on wanting/not wanting to do it,
2) Have the majority of the tools and the basic know-how to do the job to your satisfaction
3) Probably/likely take longer than a professional - but you are ok with that (personal satisfaction/learn something/gain experience/etc.)

Now you calculate what the materials/extra tools would cost you.
And now you are in the position where you have no idea what this particular job would cost you to hire out? Does everyone call someone and get 2-3 estimates? or everyone have "buddies" in the trades that can let them know?

That is where I was trying to focus more on - I apologize if that was not clear.
I try to be a DIY guy as much as possible, because actually working on something compared to being an IT project manager gives a different type of satisfaction. However, I don't want to that guy that gets estimates on everything with the intention of wasting contractors time because I was planning on DIY in the beginning.
Without the knowledge of that estimate, how do you decide?
Spending $300 on materials and taking 1/2 day is fine with me if the quotes came back at $1200+ to pay someone. If the quotes was $650-700 - I would think about it more - taking in consideration level of effort, quality of work, did I learn something, general pride, teach my kids something, etc.

 

[brownbagg]

i been thinking about buying me a brand new electric mortar mixer to lay brick, no i have never laid brick in my life, but i need tools

and i always wanted to brick my house

 

[topcok88]

So it appears that time (savings), desire (want to - or more often don't want to), and lastly expertise (quality of work - mixed with having proper tools) are the primary deciding factors in doing a job vs. hiring out by everyone.

My original intent of the thread was more from an basic economic standpoint - while removing the "what is your time worth" factor as that is too variable.

When looking at a particular job that, for the sake of an example, is:
1) One you could go either way on wanting/not wanting to do it,
2) Have the majority of the tools and the basic know-how to do the job to your satisfaction
3) Probably/likely take longer than a professional - but you are ok with that (personal satisfaction/learn something/gain experience/etc.)

Now you calculate what the materials/extra tools would cost you.
And now you are in the position where you have no idea what this particular job would cost you to hire out? Does everyone call someone and get 2-3 estimates? or everyone have "buddies" in the trades that can let them know?

That is where I was trying to focus more on - I apologize if that was not clear.
I try to be a DIY guy as much as possible, because actually working on something compared to being an IT project manager gives a different type of satisfaction. However, I don't want to that guy that gets estimates on everything with the intention of wasting contractors time because I was planning on DIY in the beginning.
Without the knowledge of that estimate, how do you decide?
Spending $300 on materials and taking 1/2 day is fine with me if the quotes came back at $1200+ to pay someone. If the quotes was $650-700 - I would think about it more - taking in consideration level of effort, quality of work, did I learn something, general pride, teach my kids something, etc.

I don’t have buddies in every trade but I do have Google/YouTube. With those two things it doesn’t take but 15-30 minutes to figure out if I care to do the “unknown”.


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[u2slow]

Now you calculate what the materials/extra tools would cost you.
And now you are in the position where you have no idea what this particular job would cost you to hire out? Does everyone call someone and get 2-3 estimates? or everyone have "buddies" in the trades that can let them know?
....
Without the knowledge of that estimate, how do you decide?

If my gut says I can figure out how to do the work, I'll do it myself. At least once anyway. I'm cheap enough that on the off-chance it blows up, the attempt isn't a write-off. Maybe one small aspect needs to be hired out. The jobs I like less, I gap them out in phases to make them manageable. I hate drywall, but I do the best the I can, and not too much at once. Ceramic tile I dislike enough I find alternatives. I did my roof a couple years ago; so some jobs are a little bigger.

Time is on my side though, I work a day-for-day ratio (14:14 typically), not this mon-fri **** (5:2).

My shop-build (to lockup - unfinished), and re-piping/charging an existing HVAC system are the only jobs I've hired out. No estimates - I went with proven local guys (word of mouth) that had a reputation for getting the job done. I know from being a small contractor that estimating odd or unusual jobs ****. So I don't make others do it either.

As for buddies in trades... IMHO, its the small-time guys building houses that can best capitalize on bartering and filler/side work.

 

[Bolson32]

So it appears that time (savings), desire (want to - or more often don't want to), and lastly expertise (quality of work - mixed with having proper tools) are the primary deciding factors in doing a job vs. hiring out by everyone.

My original intent of the thread was more from an basic economic standpoint - while removing the "what is your time worth" factor as that is too variable.

When looking at a particular job that, for the sake of an example, is:
1) One you could go either way on wanting/not wanting to do it,
2) Have the majority of the tools and the basic know-how to do the job to your satisfaction
3) Probably/likely take longer than a professional - but you are ok with that (personal satisfaction/learn something/gain experience/etc.)

Now you calculate what the materials/extra tools would cost you.
And now you are in the position where you have no idea what this particular job would cost you to hire out? Does everyone call someone and get 2-3 estimates? or everyone have "buddies" in the trades that can let them know?

That is where I was trying to focus more on - I apologize if that was not clear.
I try to be a DIY guy as much as possible, because actually working on something compared to being an IT project manager gives a different type of satisfaction. However, I don't want to that guy that gets estimates on everything with the intention of wasting contractors time because I was planning on DIY in the beginning.
Without the knowledge of that estimate, how do you decide?
Spending $300 on materials and taking 1/2 day is fine with me if the quotes came back at $1200+ to pay someone. If the quotes was $650-700 - I would think about it more - taking in consideration level of effort, quality of work, did I learn something, general pride, teach my kids something, etc.

I love this question so much. I feel like I talk about it a lot lately and I'll probably come back and add more color tomorrow.

But, I'll say I typically value my time on a spectrum. $40 to $100 an hour. $100 an hour of I have zero experience and/or hate the work. $40 if it's a slam dunk for me and I don't mind it. Tool acquisition and number of guys needed play a big part in that too.

Examples - low end.
Shed building
Doors
Windows
Siding
Simple framing
Most yard work
Tree cutting
Minor excavation
Flooring
Trim
Demo

Examples - Middle(mostly just don't like doing these)
Electrical work
Plumbing

Examples - High end
Concrete work - anything above a patch or very small pad.
Complex framing
Roofing


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[MushCreek]

Yesterday I did it 'hire it out' job. My '95 F150 needs a new oil pressure switch. Between running around for parts, and trying to get stuff off that's either stuck or inaccessible, I burned through much of the day to get at a $15 part. In recent years, it seems like every time I bring a vehicle in for repair, it somehow costs about $1000. Now I know why. That being said- I'm retired, and live on SS. The truck is a cheap, around-town beater. I'm adding a mechanical oil pressure gauge, as the factory one is actually an idiot light made to look like a gauge. If I had the money to burn, I'd pay someone else. But then, I'd probably be driving a much nicer truck!

 

[firebirdparts]

Yesterday I did it 'hire it out' job. My '95 F150 needs a new oil pressure switch. Between running around for parts, and trying to get stuff off that's either stuck or inaccessible, I burned through much of the day to get at a $15 part. In recent years, it seems like every time I bring a vehicle in for repair, it somehow costs about $1000. Now I know why. That being said- I'm retired, and live on SS. The truck is a cheap, around-town beater. I'm adding a mechanical oil pressure gauge, as the factory one is actually an idiot light made to look like a gauge. If I had the money to burn, I'd pay someone else. But then, I'd probably be driving a much nicer truck!

That actually sounds like fun to me, and for one reason because I do it myself on Fords for the same reasons, and I know what it's like. I like doing stuff like that.

I do everything myself, but once in a while I'll hire somebody just because of laziness. When I got a real job, the first thing I didn't do myself is try to build exhaust systems. I also don't always pour concrete. I probably do half of it myself. It's hard work.

The biggest problem I have with hiring people is that they don't do anything right. They just do whatever they want and they leave. It's efficient, and that's why they do it. If they could put the time in that I can, then they'd have to charge 10X as much. That's just the way it is. I built a tile-faced fireplace in 2018; it is at least twice as good as any professional could do, but it took me 10 times as long.

I need new driveways right now, and I am afraid to hire somebody to do them. I am afraid of how it'll drain after they do what they want instead of what I tell them to do.

 

[jonshonda]

I'm an engineer by trade, a former union carpenter, and good with my hands. The only time I typically hire work is when its time sensitive (water heater needed to be replaced and too busy at work), or something like cutting down big oaks in dangerous locations.

A good example is the timing belt/wb I just did on my 94 Miata. The shop that specializes in Miatas quoted (4) hours @ $100 per hour. I didn't like the $100 rate (very small one man indy shop) and thought the (4) hours was not much time at all. Well, I am glad I did it myself, because there is no way he would have been able to clean up everything I did and go to the level I did putting it back together. Cleaning up threads, anti seize, torque specs, etc. I just told myself (I won't be doing this again for 60k miles, so I might as well make sure what I am putting back onto the engine is as good as it can be.

 

[Rc_Guy]

That actually sounds like fun to me, and for one reason because I do it myself on Fords for the same reasons, and I know what it's like. I like doing stuff like that.

I do everything myself, but once in a while I'll hire somebody just because of laziness. When I got a real job, the first thing I didn't do myself is try to build exhaust systems. I also don't always pour concrete. I probably do half of it myself. It's hard work.

The biggest problem I have with hiring people is that they don't do anything right. They just do whatever they want and they leave. It's efficient, and that's why they do it. If they could put the time in that I can, then they'd have to charge 10X as much. That's just the way it is. I built a tile-faced fireplace in 2018; it is at least twice as good as any professional could do, but it took me 10 times as long.

I need new driveways right now, and I am afraid to hire somebody to do them. I am afraid of how it'll drain after they do what they want instead of what I tell them to do.

I don’t understand how you think a professional can’t do it just as good or better than you can do it?

I am a sprinkler fitter, I install fire sprinklers for a living, the way I’m reading what you say is you could put sprinklers in a building and do a better job that I could do?

 

[aka Larry]

The problem around here is for a lot of jobs you don't have choice. You have to DIY or it doesn't get done.

My buddy had a 20x30 detached garage built in December. It's now May 1st and he STILL can't find an electrician to install a sub panel. Forget the price, he can't even get a damn quote!

Tomorrow we'll start the DIY process so he can finally have power in his shop.

 

[firebirdparts]

I don’t understand how you think a professional can’t do it just as good or better than you can do it?

I already explained that. They'd have to stay longer. You can't do business where you take 10 times longer than some reasonable measure of a reasonable job. You know that already. Everybody knows it. I live here; I've got the rest of my life to get it perfect.

 

[MushCreek]

I've had more than my share of bad luck with mechanics and contractors. I took my Ford van to the dealer because I was new in town, living out of a camper, and knew nothing about the area. A grand later, it was declared 'fixed'. Within two days, it started throwing the same codes. I pulled the doghouse off, and the very first thing you see is a large vacuum line. It was all cracked and ratty. I replaced it for a few bucks. Problem solved. I asked the service manager WTF? and he said they go by what the diagnostic computer tells them. Stevie Wonder could have seen that ratty vacuum line.

In the above case- yes, I can (and did) do a better job.

 

[ddawg16]

This is an excellent thread.....and a very good question which in one form or another has come up quite often on here.

GA_Brown.....real close....

1. Can I do the work?
2. Do I want to do the work?
3. What will someone charge to do the work?

My last project was replacing 45 feet of fascia & soffit, replacing 24 feet of 2x8 roof decking and laying 3 bundles of shingles. Roofer wanted $6k. Materials were $500, I’m retired so my time is not worth a lot, so I did it myself. I did not really want to do it but I had to ask if my time was worth $5,500.

I would expand it out to....

1. Can I do the work (do I have the tools and time?)
2. Can I afford to pay someone to do it? If not, see #1
3. Do I want to do the work? If not, see #2 then #1
4. If 3, 2, 1 are not met....buy tools

I only do what I want to do. Example:

I don’t mow my own lawn because I don’t want to.

I will choose to spend ten times as much if I get to buy a tool out of it I want.

I choose to bid out projects I physically can not do - in-ground pool, concrete driveway, etc.

look at it like this

if you do it yourself, you can buy tools

Hell yeah.................

I use a matrix:

Do I want to do it?
Do I need it done now?
Is it simple?
What is my skill level?
Do I want something out of the ordinary?
Whats the cost/complexity of hiring it out?
Am I willing to go back and fix my mistakes?
Does my cheap *** override what I know I should do?

For your garage my question would be: Do you want to work in your garage or on your garage for a year? If you want to work in it, then pay someone and ten years down the road you probably won't even care what you paid. If you want to work on it then DIY your garage and ten years down the road you will either be bragging about it or saying how you should have paid someone.

Reaching out here, but in my opinion, this is why most of us are here.

I don’t understand how you think a professional can’t do it just as good or better than you can do it?

I am a sprinkler fitter, I install fire sprinklers for a living, the way I’m reading what you say is you could put sprinklers in a building and do a better job that I could do?

I'm willing to bet I can do just as good a job if not better. I'm real good at running a pipe threader...I've even shown my boys how to use one. It's really no different than running gas line.


I built my garage and 2-story addition to my house. I had fun doing it....kinda like a 'big boys erector set'.

For the garage, I farmed out the foundation and stucco. Concrete and Stucco is grunt work and takes more than one person. (except for real small jobs)

For the house, I farmed out the foundation, stucco, insulation and roof.
Foundation and Stucco....grunt work that takes more than one person.
Insulation...there was no cost advantage to me....and it's far from fun. And really needs two people to make it happen quick.
Roof? If done that before. It's not fun....and rain was coming. It was worth the money for the quick completion.

I added about 1100 sq ft to my house at a cost of around $80-90k. I'm still working on it....finish carpentry....
I'm willing to bet my wood working skills are just as good if not better than just about any contractor out there.

One of my projects....and of course you can click on the links in my signature to see a lot more....
BTW....see those popup outlets in the top of the cabinet? Those things are the bomb....3 AC recept, 2 USB ports. When not in use, they push down flush.

 

[jetnow1]

One aspect I have not seen mentioned id physical health. I am 66, did construction for much of my life. My knees are shot as a result. I built my garage except for concrete work, I framed, sided, roofed (24 by 30 with a 12/12 pitch), drywalled, did the electric, epoxied the floor, painted the walls, insulated. Other than the concrete the only help was my 65 year old buddy holding and nailing the lower end of the 18 foot long rafters, and feeding the insulation blower.
I can do most anything I decide to do. I push myself somedays to to the point I need to take a few days off to heal. Will I ever do another roof like above again, probably not, Will I do the roof on my rental, probably as I can do it in sections and it is only a 5 in 12
pitch. I am not looking forward to it though.

 

[bdbecker]

Personally, I don't do a lot of calculation when it comes to whether to DIY a project or not. If I want to take the project on, I'll do it. If I don't, I'll hire it out. This often confuses the heck out of Wife because I'll farm out work that I'm capable of doing but have no interest in, while taking on projects that are beyond my skill-set because I'm interested in them for some reason. I freely admit that there is no method to my madness either.

 

[finn]

Dollars have little to do with it.

I first consider whether or not I want to do it or want to learn how to do it. If either answer is no.. I don’t want to do it, or learn to do it, the checkbook comes out. The slab in my shop lean to falls here

Next: am I physically or mentally able to do it... if no, then the checkbook comes out. Second floor roofs and windows fall here. I probably could do it, but I don’t like heights. This may actually be a subset of the above.

Third: do I have the equipment or the desire to purchase or rent the equipment. I used this one to justify, to myself, buying both my mini excavator and my CTL. Would have been cheaper to hire those project out, but I want and can afford the equipment. Not a sound financial decision, but neither is playing golf or going to the casino, or a bar for a few beers, for that matter. Spray foaming fits here also. I don’t want to invest in the equipment.

Car repairs fall here somewhere too. I have a lift and fairly well equipped shop, but I prefer to have a couple of newer cars, with a warranty for daily use. Project cars and hot rods are something else entirely.

 

[gtae07]

I tend to default to DIY to save money, ensure a job I’m satisfied with, or learn/practice a skill unless one or more of the following mean I can’t:

- Lack of required tools and no budget/space for them (e.g. a lift)
- Materials not available to non-professionals (refrigerant, siding to match the house)
- Legal restrictions (licenses required or something)
- Time pressure
- It involves ladders higher than 6ft (nope, nope, nope)
- I physically can’t do it myself (e.g. pouring concrete for a foundation)

I’ve also run into a couple cases where the pro job is close in cost to DIY, and usually then I’ll at least seriously consider it. Roofing my shop was one.

I don’t use the “what’s my hourly rate?” one though—I’m salary and can’t simply choose to work a little more time in exchange. My income is more or less set so I choose to save it for the things that meet the above criteria.


One interesting case is oil changes; it’s cheaper and faster to do it at home—in the time it would take me just to drive to the oil change place and back I’ll have it done at home. They gave my wife 10 free oil changes with her last two cars and we didn’t take advantage of them—it wasn’t worth the trouble to schedule a visit and wait.


Finally, regarding pro vs DIY quality, it’s the old three-way optimization trade. You can get it good, fast, and/or cheap—pick two.

 

[e015475]

When I was in my prime, I set a somewhat arbitrary barrier at $35/hr. If I could do the job and pay myself an imaginary $35, I'd do it.

If the job required an expensive tool I like to have in my inventory, I'd do the work to have the tool.

If I lacked the skill to do a project, I'd often hire a pro with the proviso that he'd teach me the basics. Most were very willing to do so.

As I grew older and my tolerance for heavy work diminished, I started seeking out professionals to do my work for me. I focused on building trust with them and almost never bid them. I pay what they ask and they almost always answer the phone and show up when I need them. I know from my DIY experience if their price is good value, and they know that I know. It works on trust.

The last bastion of DIY was my automotive hobby. Until recently, I did everything myself, but for the last project I hired a very talented metal/paint/body guy who'd come to my shop once a week and work with me (well pre-covid anyway). He's become a good friend, but I pay his hourly rate, in cash, once a week. If I find myself needing a favor (or at the limit of my abilities), he'll usually stop what he's doing and help me out.

I'm 66 and can see a time in the not too distant future where I may not have the ability to do DIY. My strategy is to nurture those relationships and have these pros supplant my DIY efforts as I grow older.

Still not sure what I'm going to do with all the tools I bought for my DIY projects starting 40 years ago.

 

[Rc_Guy]

This is an excellent thread.....and a very good question which in one form or another has come up quite often on here.

GA_Brown.....real close....



I would expand it out to....

1. Can I do the work (do I have the tools and time?)
2. Can I afford to pay someone to do it? If not, see #1
3. Do I want to do the work? If not, see #2 then #1
4. If 3, 2, 1 are not met....buy tools






Hell yeah.................



Reaching out here, but in my opinion, this is why most of us are here.



I'm willing to bet I can do just as good a job if not better. I'm real good at running a pipe threader...I've even shown my boys how to use one. It's really no different than running gas line.


I built my garage and 2-story addition to my house. I had fun doing it....kinda like a 'big boys erector set'.

For the garage, I farmed out the foundation and stucco. Concrete and Stucco is grunt work and takes more than one person. (except for real small jobs)

For the house, I farmed out the foundation, stucco, insulation and roof.
Foundation and Stucco....grunt work that takes more than one person.
Insulation...there was no cost advantage to me....and it's far from fun. And really needs two people to make it happen quick.
Roof? If done that before. It's not fun....and rain was coming. It was worth the money for the quick completion.

I added about 1100 sq ft to my house at a cost of around $80-90k. I'm still working on it....finish carpentry....
I'm willing to bet my wood working skills are just as good if not better than just about any contractor out there.

One of my projects....and of course you can click on the links in my signature to see a lot more....
BTW....see those popup outlets in the top of the cabinet? Those things are the bomb....3 AC recept, 2 USB ports. When not in use, they push down flush.

No different than running a gas line.

Believe it or not, my job entails more than just threading pipe, there is about 500 pages of codes to know how to sprinkle the type of building based on the use of the building.

 

[Innovate1]

I grew up in the country far from services and my dad did practically everything. When his truck blew a piston we repaired it ourselves even though we didn't normally do such things. We didn't have a lot of money but he knew how to stretch a dollar. We had a lot of used things he would bring home. But we also had an old ski boat he had fixed up and he had an airplane (homebuilt he paid $2500 dollars for about 1970). Think I was in junior high when we built a self loading hydraulic garbage truck to make his work easier because he couldn't afford a commercial rig. Only thing he sent out were a few machined rollers as I recall. Bought a truck, built the box, scrounged hydraulic parts, etc. Put a good sized addition on the house, put up a pole barn, had a couple rental houses and did all the repairs on them.

Now I am an engineer and make a good living. But hard for me to get away from doing things myself. Never really had much interest in cars so I do the simple stuff like install a trailer hitch or change a battery. But I found a place that does good work at a reasonable price so it's easy to just take most stuff there.

Lawn equipment - seems like the price of repair is more than the equipment is worth many times. Blown head gasket or bad valves or a bad blade spindle bearing... Parts are easy to get and easy to work on (lots more room than cars) so I do all of it myself.

Most of the building stuff I leave to others. I will do smaller parts. I know electrical although wiring buildings isn't my day job so I do that myself.

For example, disposal just started leaking. For small stuff like that it's more trouble to find someone good than just doing it myself.

My general rule is if it's not part of my career knowledge/skill then someone that does it everyday should know more/be better at it than I am if I am going to hire them. It's not a hard and fast rule as there are some things I know about by doing before or I may just not want to do it or have the tools.

A big factor is finding someone the does reasonably good work at a reasonable price. A lot of people talk a good line but may not deliver. I hate seeing people cut corners with sloppy work. If it's some tricks of how to get a job done faster/easier without sacrificing quality then great - that's what I hire a pro for.

I also know what markup is on many parts. Often it is huge and doing it myself may save that.

As I get older I am having more things done. As I am sure is the case for many others I enjoy building/making things and figuring out how to do things so for some projects there is that motivation.

 

[Buckaroo5]

When I consider the cost of hiring someone vs DIY, I ask myself "how much would I have to earn to pay someone to do it?" because you have to earn the $$ and then pay income taxes on it. So if your overall marginal tax rate is 25% (including Fed, State, Social Security & Medicare), to pay someone $100/hr, you have to earn $125/hour. Then they have to pay taxes on their earnings so they charge you $100/hr to have $75/hr in their pocket. So you have to earn $125/hr so that they can have $75/hr.

I am retired, have the time to do my own work and generally enjoy doing it. If I need some tools to do the job and will have use for them in the future, I take the savings and invest it in the tools. Home plumbing & electrical and auto repair pay back the best. In auto repair, you get the added savings of buying discounted parts vs paying list. Rockauto is a great source for parts if you can wait for the delivery.

Some day I will be too old to do it myself but I am going to fight that every step of the way.