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How do you determine your costs?

rsanter

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Dec 22, 2007
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visalia ca
You need to get more quotes and you need them to be itemized like listed so you know what the elements will cost.
If you want to lower the cost you may need to sub some of the work yourself or do it yourself like the demo of the concrete.

You can also call concrete contractors and get direct quotes so you would manage that part yourself and then have the building put on top of it.
Many general contractors will add 20-30% on top of their subs for profit and to manage risk. You can eliminate that by managing yourself
 
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NUTTSGT

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Northern Central Ohio
You've mentioned your location, add it to your profile for future reference. You will get asked again later when you start asking more questions in other threads. It does nothing more than help you get accurate information and better advice from your fellow members. . . . not required but extremely helpful.


Is your the contractor doing all the work is he going to be the general contractor hiring all the others that sub the work out ? If he is the GC, he'll be making a profit off that work adding to the total cost.

Like mentioned, clutter/**** in the basement, get rid of it or get a 10x10 bldg and tell the wife, when it's full, something has to go.... nothing but your stuff in the garage.


I'm going to make this prediction and don't take offense. . . . by reading, you want the drive way fixed, a new shop built and your basement finished. I'd guess you are a young couple with your first house. If so, slow down, take your time and don't get in over your head. One thing at a time, remember as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. We have all been there at one time and all started with little or nothing. Don't be afraid to take some time to get stuff done.
 
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bdbull

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Nov 1, 2017
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*******, GA
You've mentioned your location, add it to your profile for future reference. You will get asked again later when you start asking more questions in other threads. It does nothing more than help you get accurate information and better advice from your fellow members. . . . not required but extremely helpful.
I keep telling myself I need to do that, but I obviously keep forgetting.

Is your the contractor doing all the work is he going to be the general contractor hiring all the others that sub the work out ? If he is the GC, he'll be making a profit off that work adding to the total cost.

He would be the GC and is subbing out everything.

Like mentioned, clutter/**** in the basement, get rid of it or get a 10x10 bldg and tell the wife, when it's full, something has to go.... nothing but your stuff in the garage.

Might want to make it a little bigger so I can fit a bed in there. :)

I'm going to make this prediction and don't take offense. . . . by reading, you want the drive way fixed, a new shop built and your basement finished. I'd guess you are a young couple with your first house. If so, slow down, take your time and don't get in over your head. One thing at a time, remember as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. We have all been there at one time and all started with little or nothing. Don't be afraid to take some time to get stuff done.
Hehe, not quite. Married for 17 years with 3 kids. This is our third house, but we bought it because of the lot. With 3 boys we wanted to move to a larger yard. We were looking for a very specific area and lot size, so it took us about 3 years before we found this place. We have intentions of using the proceeds from the sale of our last house to add the things we didn't get. We know it will go slow, and we're fine with that. We just don't want to waste any money or make any costly mistakes along the way.
 

bczygan

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Nov 4, 2009
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DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
You need more than detailed plans.

The more you define the project and the more detailed that definition, the better you will control the outcome and the more accurately you can predict the cost.

You need to know as much as possible about each trade. This will allow you to make decisions and control costs.

I would also suggest you hire a project manager rather than a GC.

Bill
 

Smoker

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Sep 4, 2009
Messages
167
Location
San Antonio
You need more than detailed plans.

The more you define the project and the more detailed that definition, the better you will control the outcome and the more accurately you can predict the cost.

You need to know as much as possible about each trade. This will allow you to make decisions and control costs.

I would also suggest you hire a project manager rather than a GC.

Bill

I disagree.

The more you get into a subs business the more pissed off they get. If you don't trust the sub, you have the wrong one. I let the concrete guy do his thing. He ordered the mud. He set the forms. I didn't question what he was doing and just made sure he understood what the final product needed to look and perform like if he wanted to get paid.

As a previous sub contractor myself the last thing I want is some yahoo that's watched a few YouTube videos telling me how to do my job and questioning every step of the process.

That's when my price goes sky high and hopefully the job goes to someone else.
 

Hilltopmasonry

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Oct 12, 2015
Messages
2,166
I disagree.



The more you get into a subs business the more pissed off they get. If you don't trust the sub, you have the wrong one. I let the concrete guy do his thing. He ordered the mud. He set the forms. I didn't question what he was doing and just made sure he understood what the final product needed to look and perform like if he wanted to get paid.



As a previous sub contractor myself the last thing I want is some yahoo that's watched a few YouTube videos telling me how to do my job and questioning every step of the process.



That's when my price goes sky high and hopefully the job goes to someone else.



I agree and disagree with you

You need to have detailed plans and expectations. I am not going to tell the concrete guy to go ahead and do your thing because if I pay for six inch slab I want to make sure I get a 6 inch slab. A 3 inch thick slabs looks just the same as a 6 inch slab when it’s done. Therefore detailed plans, contracts and expectations before the job starts will prevent a lot of misunderstandings and headaches

But yes as a contractor myself I agree with you that there is nothing more annoying then some homeowner that watched a bunch of YouTube videos questioning your work.


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bczygan

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DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
I disagree.

The more you get into a subs business the more pissed off they get. If you don't trust the sub, you have the wrong one. I let the concrete guy do his thing. He ordered the mud. He set the forms. I didn't question what he was doing and just made sure he understood what the final product needed to look and perform like if he wanted to get paid.

As a previous sub contractor myself the last thing I want is some yahoo that's watched a few YouTube videos telling me how to do my job and questioning every step of the process.

That's when my price goes sky high and hopefully the job goes to someone else.

You misunderstand me.

Owners and GC's and project managers need to know as much about your trade as possible. And you really want them to. Educate them.

The reason is expectations. You want their expectations to match what you deliver, as closely as possible, so there is no dissatisfaction.

Anything you can do to make the process collaborative, rather than adversarial, will benefit you and the customer.

Bill
 

nes999

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Aug 1, 2014
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Location
IL
Every area seems to have at least one trade that has crazy prices. My old house had crazy plumbing prices, by my current house its concrete work.

I enjoy building so when it was time to build my shop I fully expected to do everything except concrete work. I knew I am not skilled enough to get a floor my size flat. The wife suggested (Read: pestered) that I get a few quotes. The contractor I trusted came in at 1,000 over what I could buy the materials for. Now I am sure I probably missed something when I drew up my plans, but even still for me 1,000 dollars was worth spending a good portion of the summer working on it.


That being said when I redid my driveway I jackhammered 2 days in a thunderstorm. The last homeowner clearly did it themselves some parts were 5 feet thick with random bits of metal in it.

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rwilly

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Jan 26, 2009
Messages
112
Location
maple valley wa
I roughly estimated my costs by going to HomeDepot and pricing things out.
For my desired garage of 30’ X 60’ I came up with these rough estimates.

Plywood sheathing- $2200.00
Concrete slab/foootings- $4600.00
2 x 6 studs- $1100.00
Siding- $2000.00
Doors- $3000.00
Roofing- $3000.00
Roofing felt- $220.00
Tyvek housewrap- $150.00

For a rough total of -$15,000.00

This does not include many items such as trusses, driveway, concrete apron,
electrical work, nails, screws, and probably many other things I didn’t think of.

If I google the average price to build a garage in the US it says $40.00 a square foot bringing my total for my 30x60 to $72k.

I have yet to get anybody out to give me a bid.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

I thinks it fun to plan and do research for materials and different ways to do things.

I’m thinking General Contracting is a lucrative business.
 

ssdave

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Eastern Oregon
I’m thinking General Contracting is a lucrative business.



Build out a house or garage yourself, keep track of ALL of your time, and ALL of the expenses, and then see what your perspective is on that. The "Many other things I didn't think of" is where a lot of that cost goes. And, the labor of running around, getting materials ordered and delivered, arranging subs, making sure they show up, coordinating their work with deliveries, etc.

GC's can make a lot of money. Yes. But, it's a competitive business; there's almost always someone else that will work for less than you. So, if you want to make a lot, you have to provide better than average service, and more likely exceptional service. For several years, until word of mouth references of that exceptional service allow you to bid enough to make more.

What I have found is that most of the good GC's make more money not by bidding higher, but by doing things better, so that they have less wast and better efficiency. They also have access to the best subs because they pay them reliably and treat them better, and have things set up so that the subs can make money. They also crank through enough business that they get good discounts on materials, and often take advantage of bulk buys to save even more.

Several times, I have found that a GC will do things for within a small percentage of what I can do it myself. Where they make their margin is on the materials discounts, sub discounts, and only a fairly small overhead percentage.

If you have the skills to run a job well, keep it on schedule, manage subs, bid things well, manage your money, and solve problems, you can make a good living as a GC. A lot of tradesmen try, and end up going back to working for someone else. It takes a lot of good skills to be a successful GC.
 

longez

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Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
175
Location
NW Montana
I completed a 40'x60'x16' ceiling shop last year. I was the GC, and it ran $225K. My estimate/budget was $190K-200K; some scope creep, but some items I simply underestimated.

5" monolithic slab
metal roof and siding
9x12 office w/electric heat
fully spray foam insulated and finished: corrugated steel 4' high, then 5/8" drywall to the ceiling
200A electrical
airlines buried in the walls with drops every 10'
lots of 120V outlets
four 220v outlets for welding/compressor
two 12x14 rollup insulated doors
one 12x10 rollup insulated door
two man doors
one 75K BTU propane heater ceiling mounted; 350 gallon tank
14'ø Big *** Fan
 

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littleponderosa

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Sep 27, 2014
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MONTANA
longez, that's nearly exactly what I want to put up in Bozeman, including the full length covered parking. When I get a little closer to serious planning, I'd sure like to give you a call.
Bill
 

Stevie-Ray

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Jul 23, 2013
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2,894
Location
Michigan's Sunrise Side
I'm beginning to think I got a heck of a deal 5 years ago. I bought a 48x24 garage kit from Menards and had a GC build it on site. His price of 12.5K included concrete, and so was less than 20K total. I also took advantage of Menard's rebate, and with nearly $900 in rebates, I bought all my electrical equipment and installed it myself. The next year I added insulation. This year, I also put in a 260 foot asphalt driveway, and even if I add the entire 10K for my driveway cost to the garage build, it comes in at 30 bucks per square foot.
 

C2 Turbo

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Mar 18, 2014
Messages
392
Location
Out skirts of Louisville, KY
After building our house, I can tell you few things that would come handy to you ;)

Don't think just 'coz Cameron built his garage for $30/sq.ft I should be able to do the same. Every scenario is different including the quality of work.

Please make sure you get a good, reputable GC who would stand behind his work. Get it done cheaper and you would spend next several months trying fixing his blunders not to mention the time and the extra cost now.

Like I have always said, pay now or pay later and trust me, there's no way around it.
 

killahog

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Aug 3, 2014
Messages
825
Location
Morrow County Ohio
I would do it by doing a detailed takeoff, and then putting both labor and material prices to that takeoff. For example:

Clearing site and excavate for footings; level for floor: $1500
Calculate cubic yards of concrete, figure at $350/cy: in your case: 136' x 4.5' /27 = 23 cy x 350 = $8000 footing cost.
Calculate floor cost: .33' x 38 x 30 x $400 = $5600
Exterior Sheathing: 136 x 12' high /32 = 50 sheets x $18 = $900
Exterior Studs: 136 /1.25 = 110 studs x $10.93 = $12
Roofing: 42 x 34 x 1.15 = 17 squares at $350 = $5800 roofing


etc, etc, etc. add about 10 to 15% to your materials for waste. Make a guess at the labor for the framing and such.

Another way is to take a generic $ per square foot, as ducksface has put out there. That works if you have good values for your local area, and your job is just like the jobs those values came from.

For a comparison, I'm building a house in eastern Oregon at the moment. I am the general contractor on it, and doing a lot of the work myself. Attached to that house is a 36x48 3 car garage. 11 foot ceilings with scissor trusses going up to about 16 in the center. back 18 foot is 2 story using attic trusses for a 14 foot wide attic. Construction is 2x6 frame, hardi-plank, architectural shingles. Three single wide doors, two at 8 foot and one at 11. I did the footings for the garage myself, and doing the finish work. I paid to have it framed. Did the roof prep, and paid to have it shingled. Bought the doors for half price from someone that had ordered wrong size. Backfilled and compacted the gravel under the floor myself. Will place the rebar and hydronic heat piping and foam myself, but pay to have the concrete placed. My estimate sheet, which is about 95% complete with either completed work, purchases, or bids at this point is at about $68,000. That does not include the driveway which I will do myself with paver; that would easily be another $8K. That does include contracting the sheetrock; if I do that myself it will save me about $5000. I'm doing the electrical myself, and the interior framing, the insulating, the hydronic heat, the garage door installs, the painting, the trim. The things that I contracted out are the rough framing, the roof shingles, the concrete floor placement/finish, the siding, and digging the footing trenches. All the rest of the labor is mine; the materials are a large part of it.

A fully finished, quality shop is expensive. Even scrounging for cheap materials and doing almost all the labor myself, I'll be into mine about $40 per square foot. The $20 per square foot numbers you seen out there are either bare bones pole barn type buildings with owner labor, or delusional.

I'd usually estimate $65 to $85 for a 2 story unfinished garage/shop, with electrical and concrete driveway. I"d push that up to about $110 for a finished space.

In your case, that'd equate to $74,000 to $96,000; so your bid was in the right range.
Your concrete seems low, but the demo seems high. For that cost, I'd buy a concrete saw, prybar, sledgehammer and jackhammer and do it myself. 3 weeks evenings and weekends and you would earn about $6000; the $4000 would go to haul away costs and tools. Add $1000 of rental for a bobcat and it'd be a lot easier. I pay about $250 a day to rent it for a half day Saturday and all day Sunday. You can get roll off dumpsters to haul the debris away; just don't fill them too full. I demo'd out a septic tank, a 16 x 6 foundation wall and footings, and a 6 x 8 footing by hand on my house, I had under 8 hours total in it, and paid $450 to haul away the debris. That 8 hours was in about 6 sessions; it's hard on an old man to swing a 12 pound hammer for very long.

A third way is to just get quotes from 3 or 4 contractors, and see how they compare out.

The answer to the question you didn't ask is that a shop is just plain expensive, either in dollars or in your own time and skilled labor, or in both. Most of us are deluding ourselves if we think it is cost effective to build these larger garages/shops to do a few car repairs or projects. It's an expensive hobby.

ssdave, That was very generous of you to take the time for such a detailed answer. Guys like you are what make this site what it is.
 

crewchief888

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Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
13,741
Location
NW indiana
when we bought our house 10 years ago, it had a "typical" '60's 19x22 2 car garage.

we were going to put a much larger 30x30 or 30x40 behind the original garage, and demo the existing one, leaving a large pad in front of the new garage...

i started putting together the costs of an unfinished building...

needless to say, i tossed plans in the trash, and still have the 19x22....


not gonna invest over 1/2 the cost of the house on a building that i'll never see a return on that investment...


:beer:
 

thool

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Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
5,302
Location
Rochester, NY
FWIW, have you considered renting a storage unit? With some heavy duty shelving and rugged plastic bins, you can make organization and transport a breeze. Then you can spend the money on a driveway and maybe even get a nice shed.

While the stuff you want to store isn't junk, there may be other stuff in your house and garage that *is* junk and occupying space that could be used by the things you want to keep. From personal experience, it is can be difficult to tackle clutter, but the rewards of having less to deal with are worth it.
 

longez

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Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
175
Location
NW Montana
longez, that's nearly exactly what I want to put up in Bozeman, including the full length covered parking. When I get a little closer to serious planning, I'd sure like to give you a call.
Bill

Sure, anytime or you're welcome to drive up and look at it on Flathead Lake.
 

emlpro

Active member
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
41
Location
China Grove, NC
I completed a 40'x60'x16' ceiling shop last year. I was the GC, and it ran $225K. My estimate/budget was $190K-200K; some scope creep, but some items I simply underestimated.

5" monolithic slab
metal roof and siding
9x12 office w/electric heat
fully spray foam insulated and finished: corrugated steel 4' high, then 5/8" drywall to the ceiling
200A electrical
airlines buried in the walls with drops every 10'
lots of 120V outlets
four 220v outlets for welding/compressor
two 12x14 rollup insulated doors
one 12x10 rollup insulated door
two man doors
one 75K BTU propane heater ceiling mounted; 350 gallon tank
14'ø Big *** Fan
Beautiful!
 
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